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Community Newsletter: Q&A: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator - 4/18/08 11:26 AM
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Post 91 of 234

Feeding your Graphics software is a matter of what your time

by Proshootercom - 3/22/08 7:21 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Joan,

I use Adobe's Creative Suite 3 Production Premium which includes many memory intensive programs including Photoshop CS3e & Illustrator. They say you can never have too much RAM, but you really don't absolutely need 3 or 4GB. 2GB will work fine so long as you have a large, fast dedicated scratch disk and setup your program options to work most efficiently. Because Photoshop is bitmap based it needs the most breathing room. You'll want to open Photoshop before you launch any other programs.

The first time you launch Photoshop you'll want to make the following changes to preferences (Ctrl+K); Under General make sure "Automatically Launch Bridge" is unchecked. Bridge is a huge memory hog and should be opened as you need it and then closed. I also like to check "Beep When Done" to alert me that a process is completed. In File Handling you should make sure that "Maximize PSD and PSB File Compatibility" is set to Never as this will write smaller files more quickly and is not necessary to be on either of the alternate settings unless you are delivering layered Photoshop files to someone who does not have Photoshop (when would that happen?). On Performance you will have adequate resources if you "Let Photoshop Use" 80% of the available RAM. That should leave enough for other programs and the operating system. You can dial this slightly up or down and test the results, but 80% works pretty well. Be sure that your #1 scratch disk is a separate dedicated drive (D) from that which the programs and operating system resides (C). That drive should be at least 7200RPM and as least 10 times the size of the largest file you are likely to work on. I use 4-250Gb drives using a RAID 0 configuration to make a 1Tb scratch disk, but that's not a cheap option. A single 300-500Gb drive will work fine. You can add your other drives as additional scratch disks but you shouldn't need to. Your "History States" should be as low as you can manage and cache levels should be as high as they go (8) for maximum efficiency. Lastly on Type you want to be sure "Show Asian Text Options" is unchecked unless you need to use Asian text often as it also uses some memory unnecessarily.

Adobe lets you load your licensed copy of their programs on two computers, assumed to be a work station and a laptop. I have my CS3 catalog on a powerful and fairly expensive dual Xeon workstation, but I also use it on a relatively modest Sony laptop. The laptop has an Intel Memron7300 Core2Duo processor (2ghz with a 4Mb cache) and just 2Gb of RAM. The internal drive is only 5400RPM and I find it works fine for Photoshop and other Adobe programs. Not as fast as the workstation, but fast enough that I rarely wait long.

Unless you are running a x64 version of your OS you will not be able to use more than 3Gb of RAM in Windows anyway. When you are using your graphics programs just try not to have more than 2 programs open at a time and avoid running unnecessary programs like network meters and other utilities.

I show as of today (3/22/08) a Dell Inspiron 530s with Core2Duo E6550 cpu, 2Gb Ram, XP Pro, 22” LCD monitor, 500Gb 7200rpm drive (you can split this drive or add a second 500Gb for an extra $200), an ATI 256Mb video card and a 16X DVD reader/burner is under $1150. You can also look at Dell’s Outlet preconfigured systems. Just search Dell’s site for “outlet”.

The only reason to buy more horsepower (CPU, RAM, HDD) is if your time is worth more than the difference in the cost. My current workstation was $6500 fully loaded (Dell 670). It’s really not quite twice as fast as my laptop (Sony FZ190CTO) which cost about $1800. That’s a big difference in price. You should be fine with a budget box until you can justify a need for speed.

John Lacy
Proshooter.com

Post 92 of 234

Quality post, except for the suggestion to buy a Dell

by BigGuns149 - 4/11/08 9:05 PM In reply to: Feeding your Graphics software is a matter of what your time by Proshootercom

You had a very solid post until you suggested to buy a Dell. Even when you wrote this post, the price seemed *several* hundred dollars too high. Furthermore, I went to Dell's site and that is a slimline desktop, which is going to make service and upgrades harder.

Getting a second scratch drive is pretty cheap these days as well. 500GB are about $100 and 1TB are about $200. Since the files can get huge there is no sense buying a cheap low end drive that is small and more importantly slow.

Post 93 of 234

Good answer just one clarification.

by markgrime - 4/11/08 9:31 PM In reply to: Feeding your Graphics software is a matter of what your time by Proshootercom

Everything about this answer is right on target with one sort of exception in the current pricing and system recommendations.

"500Gb 7200rpm drive (you can split this drive or add a second 500Gb for an extra $200)"

You will want to go for the latter option of adding a second drive because if you split the drive and use a second partition as a scratch drive it will be the mechanical equivalent of using the root drive for the scratch drive. A second drive can perform scratch functions independently and will take the load from the primary drive. Adobe has always recommended using a second physical disk to act as a scratch drive for this reason.

Post 94 of 234

Core 2 Duo vs Core 2 Quad.

by elvisfan - 3/22/08 7:57 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Hello Joan. Interesting question. I just bought a new PC myself. I went to a local place because I could by exactly what I wanted. I bought a Core 2 Duo E6750 processor with a 500 gb hard drive with XP pro. It cost $920. The understanding I have is that XP does not use more than 2GB of RAM, so that answers one of your questions. I went from a P4 to the Core 2 Duo. It is considerably faster. I think with the Quad processor, you are paying a premium for extra power that you don't need. The Core 2 Duo is plenty fast. Plus I have heard the E6750 runs cooler so it also saves energy. After reading about the various processors, I chose the Core 2 Duo. I certainly have found that Photoshop elements runs pretty fast now. Save your money for now. In a few years there will be something else anyway. My philosophy has always been to buy the fastest processor available. Up to the extra premium processors. When I bought my P4. I bought a 2.8ghz. The 3.2 cost several hundred dollars more, and you would have not noticed the difference anyway. I feel the differences between the Core 2 Duo and Quad are not significant enough to justify the extra cost.

Post 95 of 234

PC reconmendatio

by dadamedan - 3/22/08 8:27 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I consult my pastor wife with her computing needs. Shee runs intensive grapic like photor shop and other related programs. I sugguest that you choose a computer wiill enable you to upgrade to a good graphic card and at least 4gb , so that you don't freeze.
Daniel

Post 96 of 234

PC recommendation needed for intense graphic usage

by andyrey - 3/22/08 8:43 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I also use Photoshop and have some processor intensive plug-ins like OnOne Genuine Fractals. I am not an expert on what hardware makes things work better, but I can tell you what I do have and I have no problems with response time.

I need to be able to do my photo editing 'on site', so I use a Lenovo T60p wide-screen (1680x1050 resolution) laptop. It has an Intel 2GHz dual core processor and 3 GB of memory, but only 2 GB are used (something about maximum supported by the system). Since Photoshop is a graphics intensive application, the video card is really important. My laptop has an ATI Mobility FireGL V5250 with 512 MB of video memory.

I hope this helps.

Andy Reyes
Raleigh, NC

Post 97 of 234

2GB is OK, but ...

by jrhmobile - 3/22/08 8:55 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

You may want to look into other areas as you upgrade to a new system:

1) A quality, stand-alone graphic card. On-board/motherboard video processing eats into the RAM you have installed for processing screen redraws in Photoshop (or other Adobe graphics applications, for that matter -- Illustrator and InDesign have become more system-intensive as those applications apply more and more pixel-like effects like drop shadows, bevel and emboss, <i>etc</i>.). This lets you make the most of your onboard system RAM and improve video performance at the same time.

If you're springing for a new monitor anyway, this is a great time to go for a powerful graphics card with more Video RAM (512MB+) and a DVI connection, which is faster (and if the rest of the system accounts for it, capable of higher-resolution) than what you can get from VGA standard monitors.

2) An empty partition on your hard drive, or even better, an empty second hard drive to use as a dedicated Photoshop Scratch Disk. As Photoshop incorporates multiple history states and cache levels to allow multiple undos, it eats up a lot of disk space. Having a reserved block of clean, contiguous hard disk space will greatly improve performance compared to letting the program divvy up those history states between fragmented spaces found on your regular hard drive storage.

All that being said, when you buy that system make sure that it gives you room to expand in the future. You want to have open RAM slots to plug in additional memory down the line -- 3GB for Windows XP or 32-bit versions of Vista, 4GB or more for 64-bit Vista and future operating systems. And while Photoshop at the current time takes little advantage of multiple processors, <i>e.g.</i> AMD Athlon X2 or Intel Core 2 Duo chips, the price difference between those and single-processor dual core processors like Intel Core Duo and AMD Athlon 64 chips are so small that you will give your next system a longer life by going the full dual processor route.

Post 98 of 234

New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs

by Darkomen020 - 4/12/08 7:48 PM In reply to: 2GB is OK, but ... by jrhmobile

Well, first off, having used both Mac's and PC's, there are advantages to both. The Mac runs less at one time, as stated by someone before this, and the PC's have windows, though you can put windows on a mac, but it's very complicated. Now first off you'll wanna look for the things that will make the most difference. I'd recommend for a PC that you have 4gigs of ram, windows vista/xp 64-bit edition, whichever you are more comfortable with, a good processor (Intel or AMD, makes no difference, and above 2.0ghz, preferably dual or quad core, 3.o+ ghz being ideal) and plenty of hard disk space, 200gbs+. NOw, for the graphics, you have a few options, and the price is a touch steep in more advanced setups. Dual vid cards, set to run together (SLi mode) and a high res monitor would be the best (and more expensive) route to go, both (or all three, depending on how you choose) will have to be identical of course, and you should opt for about 512mb-1gb of video ram per. Your system will see massive performance enhancements for this, and Photoshop will run a lot smoother, and the graphics will be incredibly clean. Hope this helps, and be warned, if you do opt for this kind of setup, expect to wind up spending a bit on it.
a good site to check out is:
http://www.voodoopc.com
or go to Alienware's website, either will have good specs on these high end kind of systems, and will both offer extreme graphics abilities. As for mac, I have no suggestions, for I don't have too much experience with them, just enough to know I prefer PC's, but that's another story for another day. =)

Post 99 of 234

This Should Help!!!

by Michelot12 - 3/22/08 9:05 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Well, Joan..
If your going to use such high memory usage programs I suggest that you upgrade your memory. However If you need to do alot more. I would recommend you purchase a HP Computer. What your doing is really artistic and not that business like so Dell wouldn't really work for you. I would say getting a 3 GB Ram, and A 350 GB Hard-drive would be okay... Try going for a Dual Core AMD Processor..But the thing thats really important is making sure u get a nice graphics and video card to go along with that. Now if u look ot for good deals than it wouldnt cost u more than 1,200 bucks. But if you manage to get a coupon code online, than sometimes they may srcape out atleast 200-300 bucks if there good.. So it might get you around 900-1,100 bucks after tax...

Post 100 of 234

Graphics "Upgrade"

by PhotoMan - 3/22/08 9:07 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Hello John,

If your prime objective is graphics, have you considered a AMD processor ? AMD's internal setup (ie: secondary cache) had always beat out Intels' where handling graphics is concerned. The Intel is better (faster) at number crunching apps....mind you we are talking a fractions of a second to a few seconds but it adds up.

Like you, I've stuck with XP Pro. No "surprizes" when using some of my older equipment (ie: HP 4470P Scanjet scanner). When it comes to the working memory (RAM) you should max out that to whatever the board and OS will support. When you have two or three apps running on your screen at the same time, containing half a gig of graphics, it's the memory that will keep you working..... or going to the kitchen for another cup of coffee.

Your graphics card is also important. You say that you are going to be using Dreamweaver as well so you will need a card with a decent frame rate as well as memory (512mb). I don't know if you are referring to animation or web graphics. Given your working capital I assume that you are talking about web graphics.

If you are working with photographs and want a truer screen colour accuracy, then your budget will not allow for a LCD type monitor. A graphics monitor with the colour depth, viewing angle and control will start at about your entire budget level. A CRT is better suited for you at this point.

Don't forget that Adobe is not the only "player" available. Just because you hear that name all over the place (don't forget that they have paid $$$ for that privilage) there are other less expensive and just as powerful graphics programs out there, ie Corel Graphics Suite. I have Adobe and Corel on my boxes and find that Corel to be more intuitive, faster and with a far easier learning curve. Don't be swayed by those with blinders on who use the word "professional" when describing their graphics program requirements...it's the results that count. Try the various free trials, find out what they can do for you and judge for yourself.

If you are looking at a Dell setup, DO NOT buy the software thru them. You will have no product support as Dell will be the license holder, not you.

When talking about a graphics computer, what type of work you do will dictate the components necessary and the final price. You can easily spend $5,000.00+ or as little as $1,000.00

Good luck, have fun and let your imagination rule !

Ted

Post 101 of 234

suggested PC vendor

by rmlurie - 3/22/08 9:11 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I have been very happy with a desktop and a laptop from PCSforEveryone.com. You can tailor your PC to what you want and need. For example their Intel 2100 series. Suggest 4 gigs of Ram even tho WindowsXP is supposed to be limited to 3 gig. The extra cost is low ($70) Get a dual processor with 4 meg L2 cache (E6750, 2.66mhz); MSI nVidia GeForce 9600GT OC 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express (2xDVI); 500 gig 7600rpm drive; best silent case (and it is silent!), and three year warrenty is $1184. They offer an AOC 21.6 inch screen for $237. but a Samsung 22 in screen can be obtained for $300 on Circuit City web site.
You can save with a different video card -- ask PCSFOREVERYONE for a recommendation. There is shipping and perhaps tax depending where you are.
Their service, phone help are fabulous and you won't believe the workmanship when you look inside the case.
BobL

Post 102 of 234

go mac

by mafmusic - 3/22/08 9:53 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

well i use a pc for work (xp) and a mac for pleasure
not sure why u don't want a mac
they are elegant, fast, well designed, mac osx is pure delight, the built in programs like iphoto, etc, are easy to work with and powerful, customer support is excellent (although u will probably never need it), and u can run windows if u want to
u get the best of both worlds
i compose music as a hobby and the only reason i can be on a computer at night after being on a pcf for 8 hours is that it is completely different user experience
no comparison
max osx is not in your face all of the time
it looks beautiful
is fast and intuitive
and the whole machine works together like clockwork

if i were u i would seriously consider it :-)

Post 103 of 234

work or pleasure ?

by PhotoMan - 3/23/08 11:58 AM In reply to: go mac by mafmusic

Hello,

You answered your question in the first line of your post:
"PC for work, and a Mac for pleasure"

Post 104 of 234

beautiful thing

by puma - 4/12/08 8:06 PM In reply to: work or pleasure ? by PhotoMan

he meant that he is "forced" to work with windows and eager to use mac, nice try... my employer now offers both mac & pc for new hires and the Macs are out-deploying the pc. our ceo is a mac enthusiast and he has a green initiative that systems need to consume low power, no downtime for the user, and productive & profitable for the company... a win-win situation for both the employer & employee, it's a beautiful thing

Post 105 of 234

my view

by glentibbits - 3/22/08 10:16 AM In reply to: New PC recommendations needed for graphic-intensive programs by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Joan P. I have a Gateway 507GR running XP Pro. I too am not interested in Vista.

I have an intel duo core processor and 1.5gb of memory.

I typically run Photoshop and Premier Pro at the same time. I also check email while running these programs.
I do not have any problems and the programs run fast with few delays switching between them. I have also had After Effects running with these two and have not noticed a slowdown.

This is what I testify to.
Glen

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