Mac OS X: Is it true that MacOS is Virus Free?...
That's all you can come up with?
by b8375629 - 2/24/08 12:27 PM In reply to: Here's an example for you by santuccieAren't you the guy who was spreading FUD about Linux viruses a few months ago?
How do you define FUD?
by santuccie - 2/24/08 2:45 PM In reply to: That's all you can come up with? by b8375629It stands for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Whenever I've mentioned Linux malware, it was to demonstrate a point. There are Linux advocates here, prescribing migration as a security solution. But one issue the Storm worm demonstrates is that a Windows user's biggest problem is naivety. If Linux has infected codecs of its own, what good does migrating do?
What's your point? Do you have one at all, or did my past words leave you with a sour taste in your mouth?
Re: How do you define FUD?
by wkia - 2/24/08 7:25 PM In reply to: How do you define FUD? by santuccieWell put, santuccie
If you can get a virus on any of the OS'es available, then what's the point of switching to a different OS? If the OS got one virus then you can be sure that the programmer is willing to write more viruses. If not there will be someone else that is willing to write that virus to cause chaos.
Thank you
by santuccie - 2/24/08 9:38 PM In reply to: Re: How do you define FUD? by wkiaIn truth, Linux really is difficult to compromise, and it takes user intervention to infect it. But still, Vista is just as tough out of the box, and Windows operating systems based on the New Technology File System can be locked down. This includes XP and 2K, not just Vista.
Once the argument of security is shot down, the next one would probably be that Linux is faster, and enables switching between multiple desktop spaces without logging in and out. My answer to the first is XP; my answer to the second is, "Big whoop!"
The greatest advantage to using Windows is that you don't have to hunt forever until you find a distro that supports both your processor and your networking hardware. And installing networking device drivers doesn't involve hunting down the instructions and typing a bunch of gibberish commands for NDISWrapper. Windows just works. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
Anyway, this forum isn't about Windows. It's about the Mac, and the Mac works for most people who try it. I prefer Windows because of the universe of hardware and software options. Mac users prefer the Mac because it's harder to mess up than Windows. I can understand this point, and it might affect me more if I wasn't a tech. Your preference depends on you.
Where's the beef?
by b8375629 - 2/25/08 9:05 AM In reply to: Re: How do you define FUD? by wkiaShow me the virus attacks on Linux or Apple. Did you bother to read Krioni and algreg's posts up above? They pretty much summed up the reality of the situation. I know that's hard for some people to take.
Let's have some facts about virus attacks instead of fear-mongering "what if" FUD, please...
No scaremongering here, just warning
by santuccie - 2/25/08 4:53 PM In reply to: Where's the beef? by b8375629http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3601946
http://www.linux.com/feature/125548
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=626622
http://www.viruslist.com/en/find?search_mode=full&words=linux&x=0&y=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses
http://www.sophos.com/security/blog/2007/11/750.html
Malware rarely gets as deep into Linux as it does in Windows operating systems prior to Windows Vista, because Linux typically runs in low-privilege accounts. But it can still run in a low-privilege account, and can go completely undetected as most Linux users do not run antimalware.
I actually don't run antimalware in Windows, but I do lock the kernel, and I don't install warez or software from dodgy sites. Also, and even though I'd be flabbergasted if I ever found anything, I do run scans. Most Linux users do not.
At the very least, it's advisable to check your network activity periodically. No OS is 100% safe, no matter what the fanboys say. As long as you can install software on your computer, you can install malicious software on your computer. Hope this helps!
"A mind is like a parachute - it works best when it is open."
Wanna bet?
by b8375629 - 2/26/08 11:00 AM In reply to: No scaremongering here, just warning by santucciehttp://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3601946
That tells me nothing specific. Ziltch.
http://www.linux.com/feature/125548
That tells me Apache servers PASS ON malware to Windows desktops without being infected themselves. Common knowledge.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=626622
Again, nothing. The majority of respondents in that thread thought the article was a load of bs, especially from a MS-sponsored event.
http://www.viruslist.com/en/find?search_mode=full&words=linux&x=0&y=0
Ha ha, just about all those articles are about 5 years old or older. Again, two or three line statements about alleged worms not said anywhere else. Where’s the proof? That someone posted it? I haven’t seen anything mentioned about it in any of the Linux forums I go to. I doubt they’re egos are so great that they’d neglect to tell us about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses
Wiki’s are generally full of inaccuracies. The only thing mentioned is:
“The major threat to Linux systems at present seems to be exploitation of browsers such as Mozilla Firefox and Opera, just as in the Windows world the exploitation uses the vulnerabilities of the Internet Explorer and Firefox browsers. Cross-platform viruses have been written for cross-platform applications, such as the OpenOffice.org suite”
Even I’ve been attacked by browser malware in Linux. So what.
I hit CTRL+ESC to close the browser, reboot the machine, Linux clears out the malware on it’s own. No kernel infection. No having to boot into safe mode to remove anything. No need for 3rd party cleaners and virus programs.
http://www.sophos.com/security/blog/2007/11/750.html
ONE article printed by an anti-spyware company spreading fear so they can sell their Linux version to Linux users. If you think you feel safer using this, then by all means, spend your money.
Folly
by santuccie - 2/26/08 12:05 PM In reply to: Wanna bet? by b8375629This is the last response I have for you. With regard to the Apache servers, you should know it's because of market share that the iFrames will target the platform with 90% of the global market. You're completely overlooking the fact that these servers allowed cross-scripting compromise in the first place, and you should also know that servers are less vulnerable than desktops.
You've said in the past that you work in the IT field, yet you scoff at the very notion of malware on any non-Microsoft platform (typical of newbie emigrants), even after having your attention directed to official sources. Worse, you've scoffed at existing security software for non-Microsoft platforms in the past, and continue to deny its necessity with utter desperation here. Every tech I have EVER spoken to knows as I do that Windows is not the only platform being hit. Ever hear of the iPhone?
Either you've avoided infection by way of caution, or you're infected and don't even know it. People running OS-X and Linux really are getting their systems compromised, but you don't want to hear of it. You hurl defamation at every mention of it, calling it scaremongering and hypothetical FUD. Either you're just another one of those people who thinks they can teach the rest of the class on the first day of the semester, or a cracker. Either you think your intuition is greater than my experience and years of research, or you're trying to conceal the truth for personal, criminal interests.
Either you have no real experience in the IT industry, or your skills are in the employ of a criminal industry, in which case I sleep a WHOLE lot better than you do. Either way, be aware that you are depreciating the value of this thread, not adding to it. My debate with you is over. Good day.
Free AV
by santuccie - 2/26/08 12:46 PM In reply to: Folly by santuccieOne more thing: I've told you before that there are free AV scanners for Linux. A few of them can be found here: http://www.itsecurity.com/features/103-free-security-apps-041607/ And ClamAV is even in the repositories. I know darn well you're aware of this. You're hiding something. Even if you're nothing more than a fanboy who can't bear a word against his deity, you might as well be a criminal. It's because of people like you, writing malware and/or keeping the average user in the dark, that the Web is like it is now. I hope you feel REALLY good about yourself. Some of us live by higher standards.
I doubt it...
by b8375629 - 2/26/08 2:55 PM In reply to: Folly by santuccieHilarious...
"This is the last response I have for you. With regard to the Apache servers, you should know it's because of market share that the iFrames will target the platform with 90% of the global market. You're completely overlooking the fact that these servers allowed cross-scripting compromise in the first place, and you should also know that servers are less vulnerable than desktops."
Yeah, to platforms that already have swiss-cheese security due to the inherent flaws in Microsoft’s OS. Apache servers are supposed to be patched on a regular basis, not to keep them safe, but to keep their clients safe. If XP wasn’t as vulnerable as it is, we wouldn’t be having this problem.
"You've said in the past that you work in the IT field, yet you scoff at the very notion of malware on any non-Microsoft platform (typical of newbie emigrants), even after having your attention directed to official sources."
I did?
When did I ever say that to you?
"Worse, you've scoffed at existing security software for non-Microsoft platforms in the past, and continue to deny its necessity with utter desperation here. Every tech I have EVER spoken to knows as I do that Windows is not the only platform being hit. Ever hear of the iPhone?"
That’s right. I think it’s idiotic and this point in time to run Windows based security programs on Linux. Even if by some miracle they’re ported to Linux. If there was truly a threat out there, the mainstream press, the IT press and each distro developers group would have a field day.
"Either you've avoided infection by way of caution, or you're infected and don't even know it. People running OS-X and Linux really are getting their systems compromised, but you don't want to hear of it."
I think you’re barking up the wrong tree, pal. I doubt you even use Linux let alone support it.
"You hurl defamation at every mention of it, calling it scaremongering and hypothetical FUD. Either you're just another one of those people who thinks they can teach the rest of the class on the first day of the semester, or a cracker."
Again, all you’ve produced is FUD. When you have something substantial to show, please let me know about it, ok?
"Either you have no real experience in the IT industry, or your skills are in the employ of a criminal industry, in which case I sleep a WHOLE lot better than you do. Either way, be aware that you are depreciating the value of this thread, not adding to it. My debate with you is over. Good day."
Whatever. You don’t even know me and for you to make a ridiculous accusation like that, really just shows what part of left-field you're way out in.
I don’t know what you hope to gain by all this because as I said before, I doubt you even use Apple or Linux anyway. It calls into question everything you've said here.
Technical difficulties
by santuccie - 2/26/08 4:11 PM In reply to: I doubt it... by b8375629I don't know what went wrong there, but let me try these characters...
..."You've said in the past that you work in the IT field, yet you scoff at the very notion of malware on any non-Microsoft platform (typical of newbie emigrants), even after having your attention directed to official sources."
...I did?
...When did I ever say that to you?...
--Here: http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6142_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=260026&messageID=2575766#2575766
'I’m already in the IT field. I deal with Windows Server 2003 all the time, as well as dealing with users who dick up their desktops on a regular basis. Active Directory, OUs, Group Policies, imaging, RAID controllers, domain controllers, mirroring, striping, security patches, HP rack servers, cabling, etc.. so no, I don’t look at them as “toys”. It’s my bread & butter.
'But even after a couple of years in the field, I still have to ask questions, even on C-Net if I can’t find it through Google. I don’t know everything, so I still have to ask for help.'
And elsewhere: http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6142_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=260026&messageID=2576201&tag=mcnt#2576201
You just go on ahead with your rebuttals; debating with you is like arguing with a two-year-old. Right or wrong, you keep at it anyway for the last word. I'm sure you'll have to respond to this one as well, and I await with amusement and enthusiasm your response to a bald-faced lie thrown back in your face. I find the truth a lot easier to remember; perhaps you'll learn that lesson one day.
You spot it, you got it
by santuccie - 2/26/08 7:25 PM In reply to: I doubt it... by b8375629Actually, after I discontinued that debate, I did find out from the forums that I had to hunt down instructions from a third-party Web site to setup a front-end for AVG.
So, now I'm an incompetent idiot? Now you've resorted to name-calling, in feeble effort to evade the fact that you've been caught in a lie. Unfortunately, it's still there, still visible, like a big, red zit on the tip of your nose, or a "talking" ink stain on your shirt pocket. You said in that other thread that you were in IT; you've claimed here that you never did, which insinuates you're not in IT. So which is it?
"Insecure," "immature," "incompetent," and "idiotic" though I may be, at least I never claimed knowledge or experience I didn't have (and I do have plenty). Too bad you can't say the same. To be caught in a lie and continue to argue reminds me of the little boy with chocolate smeared around his mouth, swearing he didn't eat the candy bar. That's what I call idiocy. "Stupid is as stupid does," that's what they say.
Bottom line is, there are over 800 malware out there for the Linux platform, and plenty of "idiots" (like me, apparently) who will fall for social engineering tactics. This being so, it's advisable new immigrants to your platform at least install a free, on-demand scanner.
So I'm treating it like Windows...whatever. Fact of the matter is, cybercriminals will take advantage of those who don't know better. I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen. Since you're still arguing in full light of the truth, apparently you're trying to make sure it does happen. Again, I hope you feel REALLY good about yourself. It's because of people like you that we have "idiots." Either lend a hand, of go ahead and flame your way to Gehenna.
If the shoe fits...
by b8375629 - 2/26/08 7:52 PM In reply to: I doubt it... by b8375629Wear it, pal...
I'm not here to engage in ad-hominem attacks, so I suggest you do the same. If I think you're wrong just accept it, k?
I'm just a lowly little MCP with two and a half years in the IT field. I may not know much, but I do know a little and I do know FUD when I hear it. I also don't let pride & ego get in the way when I have to ask for help sometimes.
So I don't what your motive is here, but I doubt it's to keep us Linux and Apple users safe from tilting at the windmills out there.
~
PS: Why don't you buy an Apple? Then you won't have to worry about any of this. 
Keep beating around the bush...
by santuccie - 2/26/08 8:17 PM In reply to: I doubt it... by b8375629'I'm not here to engage in ad-hominem attacks, so I suggest you do the same. If I think you're wrong just accept it, k?'
--Why don't you accept when someone not only says you're wrong, but explains why? What makes you so special? No matter how many times you get corrected, you continue to assert that I don't know what I'm talking about, and exalt yourself like some kind of authority in IT. I think everyone following this thread knows by now that you're not. Why are you wasting your time, my time, and everyone else's time, trying to play it off? The yolk's on you, kid!
'I'm just a lowly little MCP with two and a half years in the IT field. I may not know much, but I do know a little and I do know FUD when I hear it. I also don't let pride & ego get in the way when I have to ask for help sometimes.'
--If this were true, you would have confirmed it the first time I mentioned it in this thread. No, you're attempting to take the path of least resistance, spewing your own ad-hominem attacks at me to machete your way through the thicket of correction legitimately substantiated by me. Some of us know how to thank others for the enlightenment of correction, and don't have to "make saves" and pick up the lie where it left off for the sake of our pride & ego. Obviously, you're not among us.
'So I don't what your motive is here, but I doubt it's to keep us Linux and Apple users safe from tilting at the windmills out there.'
--Obviously your pride and ego are so indispensable to you that you'll continue to assert that I'm mad and pursuing a "what if" game, in spite of the fact that I've already linked to legitimate security vendors who record and describe Linux malware. I suppose it's just a figament of my "quixotic" imagination, right?
~
'PS: Why don't you buy an Apple? Then you won't have to worry about any of this.'
--I've told you before, and mentioned in other posts in this forum, that I know how to lock the kernel in NTFS. Even locally executed malware cannot survive a reboot on my machine. Why don't I buy an Apple? Because I'm not worried, plain and simple.
I guess the truth really does hurt
by santuccie - 2/26/08 8:35 PM In reply to: I doubt it... by b8375629LOL, now you're sending me private messages? Wow, you've really taken this personally!
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