Community Newsletter: Q&A: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers
- 2/29/08 3:23 PM
Go Refurbished
by allenm28 - 2/23/08 1:56 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Julianne, I have purchased both refurbished PCs and Printers, all HP on the web and from retail stores and have never had any problems. I have purchased direct from HP and also from Third Parties. And I would have no problem doing so again. In my opinion a refurbished product is equal to if not better than a new one since it has undergone an in depth checkup and repairs when necessary by HP service. While I am not normally a believer in extended warranties, I have always both them for all my computers. When I have incurred problems HP Service has been very efficient in responding.
ANY file to PDF - EASY as printing!
by anna3333 - 2/23/08 2:26 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Dane Praire Systems has a great utility (Win2pdf) that installs as a printer driver. ANYTHING out of ANY application that allows you to select to "print" you can convert to a pdf file! You just select Print, choose the Win2pdf "printer" from your list and it "prints" the file to a pdf file. Named and located as you choose.
The free version has a nag screen that takes 1 click to skip and the resulting pdf has an extra page that says it won't be there if you buy the Pro version. If you want to actually PRINT the resulting pdf file on paper, you can avoid printing that page by selecting print properties and choosing - for a 4 page pdf document - just to print pages 1-3.
I also do not use Adobe pdf reader - there is an app called "Foxit" that I think does a better job, quicker, plus you can highlight and insert comments. It is also free (although you can buy a "pro-pack" add-on). Look at it's features. You can download a manual also. It is only 2mb and loads way faster than Adobe - plus it isn't always nagging you for internet access. I have it set everywhere on my system as my DEFAULT pdf processor and have never had a single problem with it.
Free Win2pdf: http://www.win2pdf.com/products/win2pdf.htm
Foxit: http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader_2/whatsnew22.htm
If you decide to give one or both of these a try, read about the great features each offers.
Anna
refurished computers
by jrszabo - 2/23/08 2:34 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Check the warranty. If it's the same or near the same as the new PC then go for it.
Buying a "refurbished" or "recertified" computer
by raiderhemi - 2/23/08 2:43 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
When uying refurbished products, especially electrinics, it all depends. You never really know exactly what was wrong with the item for it to have needed repair in the first place. It could have been a minor or major issue, you will never know. However, I was with my best friend 2 years ago when he purchased a 17" widescreen HP laptop at Fry's Electronics and it was in PERFECT condition when he purchased it. He is very pleased with the laptop because he saved a lot of money and was able to get a very nice machine. To my knowledge, he has never had any problems with it whatsoever.
Just recently, I was just browsing Dell's website looking at the "Outlet" section of laptops. Dell's website tells you specifically why the particular items have been discounted, such as: Certified Refurbished, Previously Ordered New, Scratch & Dent, Off-Lease.
If you are concerned with something going wrong with it, buy a 1, 2, 3, or 4-year extended warranty. Most reputable retailers will offer you a free 90-day warranty on items like this as well.
By the way, I own an HP Desktop with a 19" widescreen that I purchased from Costco and I love it! Best computer I've ever owned. I also own an HP Officejet 5610v All-in-One and an HP LaserJet 1018 and they all work seamlessly.
In summary, just do all your research and know exactly what you want and what you are willing to settle for.
Good luck!
Refurbished Computer & Other Electronics
by temugen - 2/23/08 2:55 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
About half of the computers I've bought have been refurbished machines and they have all lasted at least as well as "new" machines. This includes personal as well as machines for my clients (I am a system developer selling both hardware and software.). They carry the same warranty and, unlike new machines, very often have at least been checked by a technician. The only machine I have ever got that was dead when I got it out of the box was "new."
I'm not a fan of HP machines though I have owned several. Initially they're fine but they don't seem to last. The same is true of Compaq. And, worse yet, Compaq machines historically have always had some unique hardware characteristics that required special software options or versions. Since Compaq merged with HP I don't really see much difference. In any case, a Compaq was unequivocally the worst machine I ever bought. I would never buy a Compaq again. I have had much better experience with Dell but that's a personal opinion.
I have bought a lot of refurbished electronic gear in general and have been happy with all of it. Very often refurbished products were returned because the original purchaser changed his or her mind. Not because of any defect.
Nearly all of these purchases have been through mail order so I didn't have the opportunity to pick and choose based on physical appearance. One of the advantages of mail order is that, almost always, you have the option of returning the item no questions asked. This is not always the case when buying through a brick and mortar store.
One anecdotal story concerns a friend who purchased a workgroup grade Minolta color laser printer about 8 years ago for about $200. It was a returned item but looked to be in good shape. When he got it home, it was dead. So, just to see what happened he called Minolta. They came out and replaced the engine on site. It worked for a while and died again. Another call to Minolta resulted in them giving him a brand new printer. True, he had to put up with a couple of hassells but, in the end, he also got a $3000 color laser printer. We should all be so lucky.
Bottom line, I wouldn't hesitate to buy attractively priced refurbished or recertified equipment.
HP's don't last - no kidding!
by anna3333 - 2/23/08 4:28 PM In reply to: Refurbished Computer & Other Electronics by temugenI once bought an HP (my first "off the rack" PC) - one of my worst decisions EVER. While I now build my own PCs (you can get help) I don't really like to open the case and mess around, but I'm really sorry I didn't on the HP. When it died an untimely death in not much over a year (and this was a "top of the line"), I opened it to see if anything was salvagable for the new pc I was building and found that it had literally burned up BECAUSE - HP had installed NO CASE FANS - nary a single one!!
My new PC has two 120m case fans, a 120m power supply fan, plus fans & heat sinks on parts in an aluminum case - it stays FRIGID. The fans blow direcly through the disk drives and across the motherboard. There is a top and side vent and even directly over the power supply it is COLD.
Also, HP (& other ready-made or even so-called "build it for you" name brand vendors SELL your hard drive space to advertisers and other vendors with "trial" programs (like Norton AV) that you can't get properly uninstalled. They tell you you are getting xGB HDD, but its filled up with garbage that you can't get rid of. And the "recovery partition" also stores - and restores - a copy of all the crapware, along with the OS. I recently saw that someone - I think Dell - was offering NOT to sell your hard drive space to vendors BUT you had to PAY them to not do it!!!!
One of the big advantages of building your own (it really is not that hard - all the parts come with instructions) or getting a private shop to build it for you (YOU research, choose, and buy the parts) is that you can partition it like you want, and keep it clean, putting on it ONLY what YOU want on it - not what HP wants on it.
If you get a refurbished, I hope you will try to stay away from VISTA. Vista is MS's first step to being in complete control of your pc (you'll just pay for it) and everything on it and whether it works or not or whether software works or not, or whether the IRS can read your online tax form or not - yes I'm serious - this is going WAY beyond DRM, to disabling and deleting from YOUR pc by remote control - no, I'm NOT kidding. VISTA is MS's poison pen - their foot in your door. (MS, HP, IBM, & Intel are part of their "consortium" or "cartel" - MS is dusting off their controversial "paladium" functionality under a new name so-called "Trusted Computing" (yeah, trusted by VENDORS) only this time they have a "cartel" so they won't have to take all the heat - plus they are not whispering a word of what they were foolish enough to come clean on with "paladium". Google "Paladium" "Longhorn" "kill switch" "RFM or Reduced Functionality Mode" (don't read Microsoft's propaganda - read the gurus like Ed Bott, etc.)
Refurb or not refurb
by keithhodgson - 2/23/08 3:07 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi Julianne.
It depends on what you mean by a refurbished or "recertified" computer. A number of systems are sold as refurbished but are actually new items - e.g. large cancelled orders, old stock, etc. You also don't mention what you want to use the PC for and neither do you mention a budget.
Some refurbished items can be dusted off ex lease or ex corporate systems.
And some can be systems that have been returned faulty and have been rectified and resold.
My own experiences have been not to worry about the new marked as refurb. but DO check the system out in reviews, etc. to ensure there are no inherant faults/weaknesses (it may be why they're being sold off cheap!).
With ex lease, etc. you pays your money you takes your chance. These are second hand used and sometimes abused systems.
With repairded faulty systems again these are second hand. If the techie couldn't find the problem he might put it down to "user" or "finger trouble" and send the system out as good when it still has an intermittent fault. Bitter personal experience has been to avoid these or at least understand the risk
With respect to HP and their "sister" company Compaq, I've never had any real problems with their PCs (although I'm sure someone will have tales of woe) but then again the same can be said for many other suppliers - e.g. Dell. I currently have a number of PCs on my home network including Dell, Acer and home built units. I use a Cannon scanner and share a HP printer via a print server through a netgear wireless router. All work as they should and not a HP PC in sight!. I live in the UK and am not sure where you are and some other PC manufacturers here may be meaningless to you so it's pointless me quoting any of my other favourites. I suggest you check out reviews (CNET would be as good a place as any to start)and also see what people who've bought the machines think.
Finally SHOP AROUND! In the UK we have chain stores like PC World. I would only ever shop there as a last resort or if they had some rare offer that was too good to miss. The goods are usually ok but their prices are almost always just too high. I've come across some of these big names with big prices in the USA as well so I'm sure it's the same the world over. Try internet sites such as pricerunner, computer magazines, etc. (and CNET!) for prices.
Decide exactly what you want your new PC to do. Will it be for word processing, spreadsheets, etc. or games? A way of getting more out of a PC for WP and s/sheets is to try other operating systems. Windows has always been fond of resources but an OS such a Linux and free "open" office applications could give you decent perrformance from more modest hardware. If you just want it just for gaming should you be looking at a gaming system such as a XBox 360, Wii or Playstation? If you have a library of PC games but your existing PC just doesn't cut it any more, ensure that you buy one that will. A quick CPU might appear a good buy buy a modern slick graphics card coupled with ample RAM can make all the difference.
Think as well whether your new purchase needs to have XP or Vista. If you have a stack of old hardware such as scanner, printer, TV decoder, etc. are there drivers for them and will they work with Vista?
As a final more risky solution, what are your PC hardware skills like? What about building a PC yourself? You could easily build a system with key components (motherboard & case) that can started off with modest CPU, less or cheaper memory, integrated graphics and then be upgraded/added to over time to build a much more powerful system as and when you can afford it.
I hope I've opened up your options while giving the benefit of the pitfalls I've stumbled over. I know I've gone past your initial brief but there are some many other options that you might want to consider. I trust you'll end up with the right system for you.
Refurb usually isn't so bad..
by BigGuns149 - 2/23/08 3:24 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Reliability wise out of box refurbs tend to be just as reliable as their new counterparts. One thing that most people don't realize is that unlike new units each unit is tested, so the chances of a dead arrival unit are pretty slim. There occasionally may be some minor superficial scratches on the unit, but in all my experiences with refurbs as a consumer, a salesperson, and later as a consultant I have never seen anything that wasn't clearly dropped or crushed during shipping that had any issues out of the box. I worked for a retailer that sold new and refurb desktops and I can say that the return rate on refurbs was very low. Most people I sold a refurb to were pretty happy with the deal that they got. A few even came back later and thanked me for helping them select a decent priced machine that was fast enough for their uses.
As for HP I can say that HP sells a significant number of refurbs every year largely because they sell so many systems that even if 5% came back that would leave them with thousands of machines that they could refurbish and sell as a refurb unit. Therefore finding a HP refurb shouldn't be too hard. Some retailers like Fry's will sell HP refurbs or you could buy the refurb through HP directly. On HP's non-business units the refurbs will carry a 90 day warranty as opposed to a one year warranty for a comparable new unit, but they will be much less expensive than a business model with the same hardware. Their business units on the other hand will carry a year warranty as opposed to the three year warranty that a comparable new unit, but obviously will cost more than a non-business model with the same hardware.
Where for hardware reliability HP has a pretty good reputation for their printers, but their desktops and laptops tend to be below average in both reliability and support across most industry surveys. Nevertheless even the best vendors have over 10% of their units reporting some issues compared to about 15-20% for HP so the reliability difference isn't huge by any stretch. Their support though definitely isn't the top of the industry. I have found a good number of people who have found HP support to be pretty bad. HP support reps told one customer that he should return his computer and get a custom build just because the machine didn't have a parallel port, when he could go down to Fry's or any good computer store and by an adapter.
As for a "fast one" you would need to be a little more specific as to what you want to do with it. If you are just running Microsoft Office, then any machine with 2GB of RAM and a Core 2 Duo in the name should be fine. Even the E4x00 series Core 2 Duos should run any version of Office without any noticeable lag. If you are looking for a gaming box you should look towards something with a high end graphics card, which in most cases you aren't going to find on refurb units. High end refurbs are a lot harder to come by.
My only concern is that if you can't afford a brand new machine that you aren't going to be able to afford a refurb with your desired specs. Refurb units usually are about 25% off a comparable new unit. On high end units refurbs have higher discounts, but based upon your statement I doubt you are in the market for one of those.
I've Had No Problem With My Dell E-520
by timh111 - 2/23/08 4:02 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I purchased a refurbished Dell E-520 about 6 months ago and have had no problems with it. It came with all the required software and a 1 year in home warranty. I'm not a big fan of Dell (I used to be though) because their customer service has become to the point of needing an interperter since they out-sourced their customer service to India. As for other peripherals working with a refurbished computer, there are many things to consider. The most important is is the OS (operating system). If it is VISTA, many of your programs and "peripherals may not work with it.A salesman of the system you want to buy can answer those questions for you. Good luck.
refurbished computer
by rdostal - 2/23/08 4:15 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Julianne - I purchased a Toshiba Tecra 8000 Laptop from an individual who buys, refurbishes and re-sells PC's. I paid $100.00 for this PC roughly 10 years ago. Over the years I've added a 40 gig hard drive and installed Windows XP. I have spilled coffee on the keyboard and hung it out to dry. The external battery is dead so I just leave it plugged in all the time. I recently installed Mozilla Firefox 2.0 and AVG Free Edition 7.5. I have noticed that performance has slowed considerably. I suppose if I downloaded newer versions of various software I would have to upgrade to a faster machine. Overall, this laptop has been an excellent investment! I still use it everyday.
Also, I purchased a refurbished MAC desktop that was probably 5 years old at the time. The MAC has provided the same quality performance as the Toshiba, above! I have found personal files on the MAC that should have been deleted but this has not impacted the overall performance.
My recommendation is that refurbished PC's are just as good as the new PC's! This is assuming you purchase them from a reliable supplier.
Good Luck, Rick
refurbished computers
by jim3000gt - 2/23/08 4:45 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have purchased several refurbished computers from Dell and HP. Yes you can mix printers with different brand names. Hp printer will work with Dell and so forth. Most Refurbished computers come with the same warranty as the new ones, in most cases. Go to Dell.com and check out their Dell outlet pages. I have had my laptop for going on three years now that I bought from them.
Good Luck Shopping,
Jim
refurbished or "recertified"
by sncbf1 - 2/23/08 5:02 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Im a long time Builder and Refurbisher. well im a fan of refurbished if you cannot afford new. What i would do is buy a Barebones and build it your self that way you can get the best parts you can afford when you can afford them, or Catch them on sale. i have a customer that did that and i put it together for them in 1999. and its still in use. they came in last week and ask me if we could do it again. Sure We CAN,i am eager to see what they do this time. my favorite place to by refurbished or off lease products or parts is Tiger Direct. you can get a extended warranty if you need one at a reasonable price and they can sell you all the upgrades later if you need them. i refer all my customers to them. and sometimes you can get great deals on off leases that are a 1/3 of the price of new and they are very upgradable. as for HP ive had good and bad experiences with them but i could say the same for all of them. im running an hp now. and am surprised at how well its doing.
Refurbished PC's
by glynnes45 - 2/23/08 5:07 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I can only tell you that I had a friend who got 2 refurbished HP PC's...same models...from a dealer who sells them. Her husband's has not had one iota of a problem. Her's however, has had several problems, but once they were fixed it pretty much runs okay now. Just make sure you have some type of warranty to repair any problems within the first 6 months! Gerry in MD
Refurbished HP probably ok
by jtbenton - 2/23/08 5:16 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I bought a refurbished HP media center desktop about 3 years ago from Tiger Direct. It was supposedly refurbed by HP. I plugged it in and turned it on and nothing but a few beeps. After some time on the phone with HP, it turned out that the memory was bad. Two weeks later, I got the computer back and it worked fine. I think HP refurbishers never looked at this computer before I got it. Anyway, it worked fine after that and contiues to work ok. It was a hassle to get it returned but I guess it was worth it. The computer looked like brand new when I got it. Since I've had it, the card reader has failed and the wireless keyboard also failed and was replaced by a cheaper version. Extended warantee did help me I guess, but it wasn't really worth the price. All in all, I wouldn't do it again. Right now, I've switched to an iMac which works a lot better.
Refurbs or recerts
by geofbrewer - 2/23/08 5:38 PM In reply to: Your thoughts on refurbished or "recertified" computers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Not to bust your chops.
What are you going to be doing with the system? Is your level of expertise in anyway going to effect this purchase? In other words, the warrenty on a refurb is typically, but not always, much shorter than "new". Don't get me wrong. I've had ten or twelve systems before I bought a new one, but I've been working professionally and for fun in electronics since before my adult children were born.
There is no problem with being partial to HP. Just be aware HP is not the HP of Hewlett-Packard fame. The folks running things now have a different take than the two guys who started the business in a garage, and lent their names. For example, HP bought Compaq. Compaq used to be the largest computer manufacturer. If you were looking for a "managed system" it was an alternative to Big Blue. HP was a better alternative if you wanted to modify things but weren't expecting to customize. Enough editorilizing. Sorry.
Anymore you need to consider what's on the system as well. Are you buying a "common" software package with the unit? Will you be able to pick and choose? Is the OS what you want? Are you going to get a clean HDD and load everything yourself?
Check the specs. Will this system be able to handle your future requirements? You could be buying a system that's already outdated.
Compatibility issues pop up now and then. Supposedly, peripherals should not cause problems reagrdless of who made them. Having said that, I have an "All-in-One" HP printer I bought new that has never worked within it's full range of capabilities because the bells and whistles on the original CD failed to load on a new, at the time, Compaq. I even got a replacement CD from HP. I tried downloading updated packages from HPs Web Site. It works as a printer, and copier and that's it. I have a home network and it doesn't work fully on my other systems. I added a "new" system recently. I downloaded the latest package and now I have full use of the printer on the "new system", but when I tried to install the same package on my other systems I got a message to the effect "your system is not new enough to handle these capabiities." Funny, the "new" system is the oldest on my network in its current configuration.
Don't give up. All is not lost. Remember "Buyer Beware".
From a guy who still needs help and isn't afraid to ask.
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