Buzz Out Loud Lounge: $20 for iPod Touch Apps - Are you pissed?
Double Screwed
by Renegade Knight - 1/17/08 11:46 AM In reply to: early adopters are always screwed by ktrebEarly adopters pay a high price for the gizmo. That's how it's normaly done. A high price for the gizmo and then charging for what's essentially a firmware update, that's doubling down on the screwing.
Not Sure I Agree
by smaegley - 1/17/08 12:03 PM In reply to: Double Screwed by Renegade KnightI get the whole early adopter thing. I bought an Archos Jukebox that used a full size laptop hard drive, weighed a ton and had a UI designed by chipmunks. I purchased a TiVO series 1 that had to dial out, could only store 30 hours and had no online features. My Canon SLR is woefully inadequate to the current model. I get all of that and I'm willing to pay a price for being that guy.
This is different. The hardware is exactly the same. A Touch bought today will have the apps on it for free, or at very least the Apple store is giving people a $20 discount on new Touch devices so they can buy the new apps.
I also don't buy the accounting argument. Do you have to pay for the AppleTV upgrade? It isn't a subscription model. And if it was just for accounting, why $19.99, why not $.99?
This is just a stupid idea that Apple just didn't fully think though.
Not on new Ipod touch either
by HP a1310n - 1/21/08 12:15 PM In reply to: Not Sure I Agree by smaegleyActually, I bought an Ipod touch about a week ago, and three days later this new $20 download B.S. came up. That really torqued me!
went to Apple store today
by ktreb - 1/21/08 5:24 PM In reply to: Not on new Ipod touch either by HP a1310nBoth capacities of the Touch are priced $20 lower, I guess to offset the price of the upgrade that isn't on them.
Triple Screwed
by dougcohen - 1/19/08 10:13 AM In reply to: Double Screwed by Renegade KnightAnd another flaw with the iPod Touch is this. Download a season of your favorite TV show, as I did in preparation for a long series of flights, and try finding it on your iPod Touch. It isn't there! Tell me that doesn't suck once the Captain says you are free to turn on any electric devices you may have to pass the time.
huh?
by ktreb - 1/19/08 11:30 AM In reply to: Triple Screwed by dougcohenYou couldn't find them under videos? That's where they reside, unless they weren't synced. You have to set them up for syncing using the various options under the TV Shows tab.
"Apple" early adopters are always screwed - very cultist
by nutjob - 1/23/08 9:58 AM In reply to: early adopters are always screwed by ktrebI got significant updates on a variety of phones including the Eten x800 I currently use and never paid for an update. I even got a free replacement DLO Homedock when it broke (without a charge).
Tis pay for update is very cult like behavior. See Cult 101
http://tinyurl.com/c2ca
while not troubled
by ktreb - 1/23/08 9:29 PM In reply to: "Apple" early adopters are always screwed - very cultist by nutjobI'm not paying for the update either.
'ell yes!
by WarpedOrb - 1/17/08 11:50 AM In reply to: $20 for iPod Touch Apps - Are you pissed? by jthrockI could rethink my brand loyalty Mr. Jobs. This is a scumbag move more common elsewhere, but us Apple lovers tend to lionize the company. They're peopled by business folks and they act accordingly. And we continue having fuzzy feeling for their stuff, but this may change that for me. To penalize early adopters, customers crucial to the product's success and Apple's year-end profits, is aweful. I. Will. Not. Buy it. Too bad I'm too whimpy to try "jailbreak". ^_~
Gizmodo reporting that you can get it for free now....
by robstak - 1/17/08 7:47 PM In reply to: $20 for iPod Touch Apps - Are you pissed? by jthrock*IF* you bought it after January 1st! haha. so if you got it the day it came out... or even christmas(!) you are sol. that is sooooo weak, apple.
-dr. karl
From an accounting perspective...
by skimike4 - 1/18/08 12:04 PM In reply to: $20 for iPod Touch Apps - Are you pissed? by jthrockThis was discussed on Thursday's podcast, but I thought this might help clarify. Apple was asked to clarify this practice of charging for upgrades back in February of last year by the Securities and Exchange Commission (back when the 802.11n upgrade came out for the iMac for $1.99 at first, remember? http://digg.com/apple/Apple_Has_Released_the_MacBook_802_11n_Update_for_Free)
Here was Apple's response to the SEC, it's on page 2:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000110465907031008/filename1.htm
You don't need an accounting degree to read it, don't worry. Basically, Apple says it charges the fees, "in accordance with the Company’s business practice" and not because they need to.
Hope this helps verify your frustration with Apple!
Mike Katz
Arlington, VA
Hmmm
by Nicholas Buenk - 1/18/08 6:56 PM In reply to: From an accounting perspective... by skimike4"while generally accepted accounting principles (“GAAP”) do not explicitly require the Company to charge for this upgrade, charging for this upgrade is consistent with the Company’s historical business practices and supports its corresponding application of GAAP at the time of the original sale of the Macintosh systems."
Accounting Perspective -- Now it makes sense
by mattlp - 1/19/08 8:32 AM In reply to: From an accounting perspective... by skimike4Apple's response to the SEC helped me finally understand Apples statement that the charge is an "accounting" issue. A little accounting background would be helpful in understanding what Apple is saying.
Public companies declare income and expense on an accrual basis, not a cash basis. That is, the company declares income when it provides the good or service. Let's pretend a company sells a widget. If the widget is a computer and the entire transaction is the sale (with no warranty, guaranteed upgrades, etc.), the company declares the income at the time of the sale. If the widget is a piece of virus software that guarantees upgrades, etc. for 12 months, the company has to defer and recognize some or all of the income over the 12 months.
Apple stated in answer to the first question "The Company’s business practice is to not provide upgrades or enhancements to its Macintosh systems free-of-charge; therefore, the Company recognizes revenue on Macintosh systems at the time they are sold to customers as there are no undelivered elements." It is trying to protect it's ability to declare all the income at the time of sale. If not, it would have to restate earnings, taking out of earnings all the income it declared on the items in question -- iMacs, iPod Touch, whatever. It would then have to defer and recognize those earnings over the "life" of the items. Imagine the accounting nightmare and what that could do to their stock price.
So why will it automatically upgrade people who bought an iPod Touch in January? Probably because it's in the same quarter, which is a reporting period for external reporting. So it's immaterial.
I personally think $20 is a too high a charge. However, note that in the link skimike4 included, Apple responded to the SEC's question asking why they only charged $1.99 for the 802.11n upgrade. They pointed out the cost of the entire card is "only $49". If the charge was too low, the SEC could argue that the charge didn't account for the additional value and was only a smokescreen to hide the free upgrade. The SEC could force Apple to restate earnings. I suspect that Apple learned from that question and this time around with the iPod Touch felt it had to make the charge something defensible to SEC accountants. Especially since the iPod Touch costs a lot more than $49!
This is also why the iPhone doesn't have the upgrade charge. There is a subscription part of the income stream as I recall. Doesn't Apple get a portion of the monthly fee? They can argue this covers software maintenance and upgrades.
I am not an accountant but I had accounting functions report to me in a prior career. I would love to hear what an accountant in the field would think about this.
Matt
(NT) why can't this be considered a firmware upgrade???
by robstak - 1/19/08 10:23 AM In reply to: Accounting Perspective -- Now it makes sense by mattlpIsn't that technology???
by metrodcmike - 1/18/08 8:03 PM In reply to: $20 for iPod Touch Apps - Are you pissed? by jthrockI was an "early adopter" of the video capable iPods, buying a 5G. Now a new purchaser of the "classic" gets a bigger hard drive, a brighter screen, and updated software that does coverflow, etc. Does that mean I was screwed? It is life. You jump in at some point and realize that prices are always going to get lower and/or capabilities and features will get better. Be glad you can do the update without getting a new device!
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