Community Newsletter: Q&A: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers
- 11/9/07 8:26 AM
Thanks for all of the good information regarding Printers...
by sparqmark:) - 2/18/08 9:29 PM In reply to: No answer just an opinion(and you know everyone has one LOL) by bobfox321Here is a site that explains how you can adjust the settings of a color laser printer to turn off the electronic chip in your laserjet 1600 and 2600 series printers. Perhaps there are other companies with this ability. I am going to try this with my printers since I own both of these models to see if I can squeeze a little more out of them. My only gripe with laser printers is the cost of toners and the print quality of photos. I use epson inkjets for that... they seem to have the best results... just my two cents. Here is the link.
http://reviews.ebay.com/hp-Laserjet-1600-2600-printer-EXTEND-YOUR-INK-TONER_W0QQugidZ10000000004557044?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:5
Thanks for listening... Sparq
Tools for the job...
by MrGadgetman - 10/19/07 9:32 PM In reply to: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
If you are wanting to print speedy documents of different types and mass production is your thing? Go laser. Inkjet gives you the best of all worlds when you through practicals in the mix like money, or efficiency. If you are going to do photos like you mentioned then without a doubt, hands down..., get a dye-sub photo printer. Don't even bother racking your head trying to find the best laser photo printer. Laser or inkjet printers cannot nor do not print with the quality, accuracy, color gamut or resolution that dye-sublimation photo printers do. By design they are inherently limited. Look at it this way..., Most photo labs or developing houses use commercial grade dye-sub printers to produce the positives from digital media. Do the research first, and just save your money by buying a basic laser (if you just like them that much) printer and a dye-sub printer. They aren't that much and SONY makes a few models in various price ranges.
Inkjet vs Colour laser
by Jillnjase - 10/26/07 7:46 PM In reply to: Tools for the job... by MrGadgetmanI am not too sure what that noise is about when you whine about the cost. I run an HP3110. I bought it because it was the only one available at that time that recycled the ink during the head cleaning cycle. I use premium grade paper that I buy on good specials (half price), and the colour cartridges are not expensive. I get absolutely amazing results, and if I use the onboard enhancements to copy an existing photo from a commercial lab I am able to produce a superior result to the original. I manage all this for a 6x4 for under 20 cents. It works out far cheaper than a lab as I can print only the photos I wish to put in an album or hang on the wall. My 3110 is now getting old and I am sure there are even better printers now. Mine is fast and I have four machines in one, and i can print directly from my disk. If I were to change I would be seriously looking at a dry powder printer, but for now I am very happy. Rod
PS a dry powder printer is nor a laser!!!
Misdirected
by MrGadgetman - 11/3/07 11:19 PM In reply to: Inkjet vs Colour laser by JillnjaseI believe you may have responded to the wrong post. I never made any comments as to the cost for inks or references about powder inks or laser ink/toner. Nor did I say anything about ink refilling.
printer ink use to much.
by tonyghosti - 10/19/07 9:45 PM In reply to: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
You are useing to much ink because you are turning off you printer after use, I goi,s through a cleaning cycle each time you turn it on, so leave it on standbye, Also you w3ill not use anymore power as your printer needs to warm up before starting, so Its cheaper to leave it on standbye, good luck tonyghosti.
Inkjet v. Laser
by firehire - 10/26/07 6:04 PM In reply to: printer ink use to much. by tonyghostiMy main reason for printing with laser is you can get it wet and it won't be ruined. It's plain and simple. You get inkjet wet and your printout is ruined.
new inks are water proof
by snavelyz - 10/27/07 8:43 AM In reply to: Inkjet v. Laser by firehireDear Discussion board:
new HP inks are better water-proof. If one buys the color-lock paper from HP ( only less than $1 per 500sheets more than the store brand), it also assits the water proof.
laser v ink
by monsieurms - 10/27/07 1:46 PM In reply to: Inkjet v. Laser by firehireI recently bought the Magicolor 2550--it is SO much faster than the ink jet. For normal color printing, it is not only quick but looks great. It is a Postscript--dpi 9600.
Now, the price has come way down these days. This is was under $400 with four high capacity cartridges pre-installed! Basically, the printer was free!
Someone mentioned enormous power drain and weight of a Laser, but certainly mine is not terribly heavy, has a small footprint and doesn't blow my electrical system. Lights don't dim. Computer doesn't go offline. If you've got a laser that powerful, it is probably an office laser. You can go lots smaller for home.
If I were printing color photos often though--and I don't--I would get an ink jet. They are clearly better at that. But using the ink jet as your all around printer I found to be difficult whereas the Laser is a great all around printer. The ink jet would have issues on wetness and crispness of text for formal letters. Plus, if you didn't use it for a few weeks, the ink cartridges would seem to dry out and stop working. I can go a month without using my laser, print, and it produce another perfect copy.
As a default printer, I think it has to be a Laser if you have any serious need for a printer at all. If you're just a home enthusiast printing photos, get an ink jet.
Really, I could see an argument for one of each. Neither is perfect. For me, considering that I don't print photos that often, the clincher was the tendency of ink cartridges to dry up. For normal uses, a laser is vastly superior.
Laser vs. Inket Answers
by anpav - 10/19/07 9:55 PM In reply to: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I'd like to share something with Ed on my experiences as both a color laser and injet owner. Let's see if I can break it down a little from my own experience:
Q: How do color laser printer fare as compared to inkjet printers when it comes to printing photos?
A: In my opinion, if you want 'picture quality', stick with the injet. I've printed a few pictures with my laser and was disappointed. There is no match for an injet that has correct ink and correct paper - the laser will do an adequate job - only adequate.
Q: Will color laser give me the quality of an inkjet printer?
A: It depends. If you're printing term papers and recipes, the quality will exceed that for injets. In fact, the laser will exceed your expectations for all but the finest picture. Again, if you print primarily pictures, stick with the inkjet.
Q: How about cost per page for color laser over inkjet?
A: This is a hotly debated topic and both have good and bad points. I would suggest more research on CNET and other sites to see if the costs calculated match your printing style. Keep in mind that each printer manufacturer rates their products for so mnay pages with a percentage of page coverage (e.g. 4500 pages at 5% coverage per page)
Q: What are some of the tradeoffs going to a color laser printer for photos?
A: Using a laser primarily for photos will leave you disappointed in the lack of detail. A good consumer laser will provide ~600dpi - a good, inexpensive inkjet can exceed 1440dpi or more. These dpi do make a difference in picture detail, crispness, and clarity.
Q: And are their any downsides to laser?
A: Definitely. The power consumption and heat generated are way more than an inkjet. The size and weight of the printer must be accommodated in your home or small office. When my laser wakes from it's power save, the current draw can and does dim lights and knock computers offline. Your home power must be able to handle the increased load. You will eventually need to replace the drum - granted at about 40-50,000 pages, but these drums are really expensive. Laser toner cartridges can cost upwards of $150 for some models - research consumable costs if you have a printer in mind.
I know Ed didn't ask this, but I feel it would make sense to answer the next question:
Q: And are their any upsides to laser?
A: Again, definitely. Printouts are very fast. If you have a printer with memory expansion, the prinouts are delivered even faster. I also like that the printouts are waterfast - ever been in a rainstorm with an inkjet printout? Some lasers are able to be networked and make a great network printer for the family with multiple computers and a home network.
I chose my laser because it seemed I kept using too much ink for the small amount of printing I was doing. If an inkjet isn't used for a while, the heads will require cleaning using even more ink. Speed and networking were the ultimate clincher for me for everyday printing on a network with multiple computers. For printing pictures, I still use my inkjet 
Inkjet VS LaserJet
by evilxo - 11/2/07 9:51 AM In reply to: Laser vs. Inket Answers by anpavInjets offer a much higher resolution when printing photos, but use a lot more ink and really isn't beneficial unless you do a lot of photo printing.
Replying to anpav's comment on networkable lasers: Many inkjets as well as lasterprinters are now network capable (some even wirelessly) so that shouldn't be a factor to rule in favor of the laser printer.
If you print any photos, go inkjet. If you find that you do a lot of black and white (text) printer and is running through your ink cartridges too quickly, then I would suggest purchasing a photoprinter (I have the HP Photosmart 5280) that uses inexpensive ink but still maintains high quality. 02 inks on HP photosmart printers run about $45 for all 6 tanks and it includes 150 sheets of 4X6 photopaper. If you're running through the black too quickly, I would suggest purchasing a small monochrome laser printer for those specific ink consuming tasks. The Hp LaserJet 1020 comes with full toner right out of the box (will print approx 2000 pages), and the drum is built right into the toner cartridge, so the drum is replaced everytime you buy more toner (this will save you A LOT of money in the long run). It'll give you much lower cost per page compared to any photoprinter.
Printing text on a laser will give you a "crisper look" with a nicer finish as well as being water proof (when run when wet).
Ink refill kit and buying bulk ink resolved all my ink woes.
by Michael Tsark - 10/19/07 11:29 PM In reply to: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Thank you, Edward H., for asking. I've owned 3 different inkjet printers but from what I've read from time to time is that consensus still tends to agree that inkjets are still better for printing photos while lasers are still better for printing documents. Although my main use is for printing documents my own priority was for overall initial cost of everything and I liked the idea of having the option of printing better photos incase I ever wanted to which is how come I opted for inkjet. I eventually bought an ink refill kit and soon later began purchasing bulk ink from The Printer Ink Warehouse and therefore the ink costs me only a small fraction of a penny per page to the point where I just don't worry about the cost of ink anymore. Even if and when I make a printing mistake or if I don't like the way the whole printing job turns out and decide to do a printing job all over again, the cost and supply of ink is no longer an issue for me to be concerned with because I always have lots more affordable ink in stock on hand and I no longer have to worry about running out of ink and/or running to the store to get more costly ink cartridges. My old ink woes became completely a thing of the past and now it's only something that other people might still have to worry about and contend with. The first few times of refilling the ink cartridges were only slightly messy and slowly awkward to do but after a short while with practice it got so much easier and cleaner at getting the job done quickly to the point where now there's no longer any mess since practice-makes-perfect. If you already have extra spare cartridges it still only takes a few to several minutes to refill all of them for re-use as needed. I've enjoyed doing business with The Printer Ink Warehouse and there's free shipping with purchases over $45. Plus, at least two or maybe three(?) times a year I get their email letting me know that I can get an additional 15% discount as a returning-customer. May I also suggest purchasing at least a few additional syringes up front because they do wear out and get “sticky” over due time.
My current inkjet printer is the Canon multifunction PIXMA MP180 which uses the newer type cartridges that doesn't allow the printer's display readout to read as “cartridge full” again after the cartridge been refilled and instead it says “ink unknown” but other than that the refilled cartridges still works just as well when it comes to printing. Another time after I had refilled both cartridges (black & color) and re-inserted them the display readout on the printer kept saying there's “no cartridges” but after I kept re-inserting both cartridges several times it finally accepted the cartridges as “ink unknown” and I was able to continue printing again.
The only other thing I can strongly recommend is to stay away from ill-greedy Hewlett-Packard products but that's because of my lousy experience with HP servicing. I used to have a Compaq computer and then HP bought out Compaq and my two year warranty had just expired but I tried calling HP for help over the phone which was a mistake on my part. I got handed through 3 or perhaps 4 HP customer service phone operators before I was finally connected to a service computer technician. I had clearly expressed my deep concern to each one of the phone operators that I don't want to be charged the $40 for the phone call if the technician can't help me at all but none of the HP phone operators gave a damn and just kept passing my phone call onto the next person. When I finally connected to the service computer technician he instantly made me wait for 3 to 4 minutes before he finally came back to the phone and helped me troubleshoot my computer which lasted roughly a minute and then he quickly made me wait for another 4 to 5 minutes. When he finally came back onto the phone again all he said was that he can't help me any and that I would need to take the computer into an authorized HP shop for servicing. In other words it had cost me $40 for roughly a minute's worth of troubleshooting only to be told there's nothing he can do. To add attempted insult to injury, it would have cost me another automatic basic fee of $80 just to have the computer “looked at” if I had taken it into the HP shop and that would NOT have included the additional costs of labor for servicing nor for the replacement parts. I opted instead to throw the Compaq computer away and decided to have nothing more to do with ill-greedy Hewlett-Packard. But, of course, the choice is solely up to each individual?
Thanks again, Edward H, for your inquiry. Tsark out.
Addendum.
by Michael Tsark - 10/21/07 1:49 AM In reply to: Ink refill kit and buying bulk ink resolved all my ink woes. by Michael TsarkRE: cost per page (Post 31)
by Big_Toe - 10/20/07 7:10 AM
In reply to: Answers for Edward H. by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator
"What are your recommendations for the cheapest cost per page and most reliable printers for black and white as well as color?"
RE: Cheapest cost is ink refill kit and buying bulk ink. (Post 32)
by Michael Tsark - 10/21/07 1:26 AM
In reply to: cost per page by Big_Toe
Big_Toe, thank you for asking and for more detail please consider reading my previous post number 21 under this thread to Edward H where I mention that buying an ink refill kit plus buying bulk ink from The Printer Ink Warehouse is the by far without a doubt thee very best way I know of to obtaining the cheapest cost of ink per page. I've never actually calculated the exact cost but I'm satisfied that I've reduced my costs to a minute fraction of a penny per page to the point where I never worry about the cost of ink anymore. If I had to make a wild guess I'd say I'd probably get anywhere between 50 to 100 pages per penny which may or may not be an over-estimate but I do know that it now only costs me at least a small fraction of a penny per page to the point where I stopped worrying about ink costs altogether, plus, I never have to worry about running out of ink anymore because I always have lots of affordable ink on hand nor do I have to stop what I'm doing in order to run to the store to buy more expensive cartridges. Between running out of ink and needing to go to the store to spend big bucks, I'd rather stay at home and take the few to several minutes to refill the cartridges myself without having to worry about how much the ink is costing me. One doesn't need to have a master's degree in rocket science in order to simply refill a cartridge and with a little of practice it can be done within minutes and without making any mess at all as practice-makes-perfect.
Sorry but I've only had a total of 3 inkjet printers and so I'm not qualified to give you any valid opinion about the most reliable printers. But I do know The Printer Ink Warehouse also sells bulk toner for laser printers as well as bulk ink for inkjet printers besides the refill kits for both types of printers.
Thank you again, Big_Toe, for asking. Tsark out.
50 pages or more per penny is feasible with bulk ink.
by Michael Tsark - 10/22/07 3:01 AM In reply to: Addendum. by Michael TsarkAs I recall, it used to cost me between several cents per page when I had used the expensive recommended manufacturer's ink cartridges. Later I was able to reduce the cost to a few cents per page by buying alternative generic type replacement cartridges that were less expensive. When I switched to the refill kits which provided several refills for the same cost as the original cartridges I was able to reduce the cost per page to under a penny and as I vaguely recall estimating I was getting somewhere between 10 to 20 pages per penny depending on how dark or light I printed things out. Then I went for bulk ink and all I know is that the cost went down to a much smaller fraction of a penny per page. Relatively speaking, I've only bought "small bulk" a couple of times and that's how come I only wildly guess I get somewhere between 50 to 100 pages per penny but if I were to ever buy ink in "big bulk" I'm sure the cost would automatically improve to hundreds of pages per penny. In summary no matter how one looks at it, buying cartridges makes one think in terms of PENNIES-per-page whereas purchasing refill kits and/or bulk ink makes one think in terms of PAGES-per-penny. That's just simple arithmetic, go figure? Most people seem to prefer spending all the money to get the expensive cartridges as though most people are either rich and/or have a lazy aversion to refilling the cartridges themselves but I can't afford all the expensive cartridges and it always made me feel like I was getting scammed every time I had bought another overly expensive cartridge which contained such little amounts of ink in it and so switching to refill kits and then switching to bulk ink was a very easy no-brainer for me. Some printing jobs that would've cost me perhaps between $30 to $50 in ink costs now only cost me a few dollars worth. And if for any reason I decide I don't like the looks of how the whole printing job turns out then I'll merely splurge and spend another few dollars to do the whole printing job all over again just to be satisfied that it looks good. If I were filthy stinking rich I'd probably opt for buying all the expensive cartridges too without ever having to refill any cartridges but my annual income is under $11,000 and more than half of it goes towards rent so like I said, ink refill kit and bulk ink was a no-brainer for me and more of a necessity. PENNIES-per-page versus PAGES-per-penny, it's up to each individual to choose for themselves how they want it done.
BIG, BIG CORRECTION...
by Michael Tsark - 10/22/07 9:10 AM In reply to: 50 pages or more per penny is feasible with bulk ink. by Michael TsarkI decided to sit down and work out the math. Here's a breakdown of the costs but keep in mind the cost can widely vary to some degree depending upon the brand of printers and the models and type of cartridges and type of refill kits to fit the specific models, for instance, my old printer Canon cartridges used to cost around $10 and alternative brands cartridges went for $3 but now my current printer black cartridge costs between roughly $20 or $25 depending upon who's selling it. Comparatively, such variables significantly alter the cost of ink per page including bulk ink prices depending upon the printer model. And your own method of working out the math may or may not differ from mine.
When I had first gotten my Canon multifunction PIXMA MP180 model last year I vaguely recall the Canon brand replacement black cartridge used to be priced at roughly $25 while the color cartridge was roughly $30 but I just checked again and they're now reduced priced at Canon for roughly $20Black [$19.99] and $25Color although most (but not all) alternative brands still sell them for roughly $25Black and $30Color. I've never refilled a completely empty cartridge but it's my guess that a black cartridge holds approximately somewhere between 10 to 12 cc's or ml's for roughly $20 and prints out around 170 pages before the ink starts running out and the pages begin to get only partially printed out. With this specific model in mind, 170pages/$20 congruent to 1page/n [where n is the cost of pennies per page], that is, 2000pennies x 1page divided by 170pages = 1page costing 12cents per page when using a $20 cartridge.
For the same price of roughly $20 the “large” size starter refill kit for the PIXMA MP180 model from The Printer Ink Warehouse contains 120 ml's and does 7.5 refills. That's comparing 10 to 12 ml's for a roughly $20 cartridge, compared to 120 ml's for a roughly $20 [$19.95] starter kit. Math-wise, 170pages x 7.5refills = 1,275pages. 1,275pages/$20 congruent to 1page/n [where n is the number of cost of pennies per page], that is, 2000pennies x 1page divided by 1,275pages = 1page costing 1.6cents instead of the 12cents per page.
However, the X-large refill kit for $29 gives 250 ml's and does 15.6 refills which works out to 170pages x 15.6refills = 2,652 pages for $29. 2,652pages/$29 congruent to 1page/n [where n is the number of cost of pennies per page], that is, 2900pennies x 1page divided by 2,652pages = 1.1pennies per page with the 250ml's refill kit.
Refill kits from The Printer Ink Warehouse roughly costs $5 [$4.95]. If buying 250 ml's in bulk ink without a refill kit the price is reduced by roughly $5 or roughly a total of $24 instead of $29 for the 250 ml's which brings the cost down to 2400pennies x 1page divided by 2,652pages = .9 cents or 9 tenths of a penny per page. At this point and in this particular specific instance the cost of ink per page is reduced to a fraction of a penny per page. Keep in mind that the same amount of bulk ink have different prices for different models even within the same brand name printers. Bulk ink also comes in 500ml's, 1000ml's, and 1gallon sizes and of course the bigger the bulk the slightly bigger the savings.
Now that I've looked over these figures I can see where my old printer gave me a much better cost per page than my current printer does since cartridges and bulk ink prices are significantly more expensive with my current printer. It looks like I'm currently getting only around 2 pages per penny which is drastically far from the 50 to 100 pages per penny like I thought although it only feels like it because I had stopped worrying about the cost of ink altogether. I suppose if I lightened my printouts to get more prints per cartridge it would improve the cost a little but me thinks I'd be better off with a different printer that comes with less expensive cartridges and hence less expensive bulk ink prices?
To conclude, it appears actual cost in general is more realistically around a few to several pages per penny for most people when using bulk ink, that's my guess but I suppose some people could perhaps get 10 or more pages per penny? Or maybe my math is off? Each individual would have to visit The Printer Ink Warehouse for themselves to calculate their own numbers to see how much of a fraction of a penny per page it would be for their own printer model but never-the-less the fact still remains, refill kit and bulk ink is thee most economical way to go in terms of PAGES-per-penny which makes sense and only logical when I think about it.
Addendum #2
by Michael Tsark - 10/23/07 11:24 AM In reply to: BIG, BIG CORRECTION... by Michael TsarkHave you checked out the price of ink online?
by gzwalker - 10/22/07 7:56 AM
In reply to: Answers for Edward H. by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator
Hi Edward,
I can't really give you a comparison between inkjet and laser printers, but I can tell you that I was able to find a very cheap source for ink cartridges. I was using a printer where the cartridges were around $7 for black and $16 for color at local office supply chains. I was even buying refill kits and going through the pain of doing it myself to try to save some money. Then I came across a site (inkquik.com) where I could get both black and color for $1.50 each if I ordered in quantities of 10. Since I was using a lot of ink, that was a no-brainer for me (10 color cartridges online for the price of 1 at the local store). I have a friend that found cartridges even cheaper on ebay. So I would advise you to consider that option if you haven't checked online yet. NOTE: I have been very satisfied with the quality and life of the cartridges I have gotten online - YMMV.
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The good news a little too late for me.
by Michael Tsark - 10/22/07 11:17 PM
In reply to: Have you checked out the price of ink online? by gzwalker
I wish I had heard about inkquik.com when I used to have a Canon Multipass MP360 and would've taken advantage of such a good deal. Canon MP360 brand cartridges went for around $10 and I was only able to find alternative ones for $3. Then my MP360 broke and Canon discontinued the model and so they gave me a free upgrade to the PIXMA MP180 printer but problem is near every where I look the cartridges are still expensive between $20 to $25 for Black. Even inkquik.com doesn't offer that much of a savings for the PIXMA MP180 cartridges. 1 to 4 cartridges still cost $20 each at inkquik.com while buying 5 or more will only save me a dollar on each cartridge. No matter where I've searched and searched I still can't find reasonably priced cartridges for the PIXMA MP180. The cheapest thus far is $16 for a refurbished cartridge. These things are massed produced like all the rest and I know it doesn't cost the manufacturers a leg and an arm to mass produce these cartridges. Meanwhile, I'm devoted to using a refill kit plus buying ink in bulk quantity from The Printer Ink Warehouse but right now I'm still unprepared and don't have a spare cartridge on the side incase something goes wrong with the original cartridge because I'm still waiting for someone to NOT be so ill-greedy about the PIXMA MP180 cartridges. But thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind the next time I get another printer.
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Refillable ink cartridges.
by fergusbp - 10/23/07 6:40 AM
In reply to: The good news a little too late for me. by Michael Tsark
Check out www.echostore.com. They have cartridges made for refilling for different printers, they have continuous ink systems and bulk ink. 3oz. is $8.99. The refillable cartridges and continuous ink systems come with ink or with out. You can use bulk ink from other suppliers in them.
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"Automatic cartridge refilling systems."
by Michael Tsark - 10/23/07 11:19 AM
In reply to: Refillable ink cartridges by fergusbp
WOW! What an idea, I wish I had invented it,...an automatic cartridge refilling system where I don't need to remove any of the cartridges from the printer anymore as long as the attached outer refillable 100ml tank bottles don't go below an ink level of 2 inches. I wish I could get me one but echostore.com doesn't have one designed for the PIXMA MP180. As of yet “MP180” isn't even in their vocabulary but sooner or later I'll get around to asking them if perhaps one of the other refilling systems might be adaptable for the MP180. I noticed the echostore.com 100ml ink for the Canon brand is slightly cheaper than The Printer Ink Warehouse whereas the 500ml and 1gal are still cheaper at The Printer Ink Warehouse and the 1000ml are the same price at both places.
Thanks, fergusbp, for the info.
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