Community Newsletter: Q&A: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers
- 11/9/07 8:26 AM
where can you find bulk inks
by wazzer - 10/30/07 3:27 PM In reply to: Ink jet is cheaper with bulk inks by Flash Fotonot ever thought of bulk inks where do you find them
Bulk Ink
by ronmac60 - 10/30/07 5:21 PM In reply to: where can you find bulk inks by wazzerBulk ink, meaning ink in 250ml (8oz bottles) or even quarts or gallons are available everywhere, as mentioned in CNET's posts.
The place most seem to like is www.inkquick.com or
www.printerinkwarehouse.com
Most bulk ink costs about $39 per quart, somewhat more in smaller quantities
3rd -party cartridges
by donwoodruff - 10/27/07 7:16 PM In reply to: Inkjet or Laser by waytronYou have neglected to mention 3rd-party cartridge refills..
Most use the original printer ink, and are MUCH less then the manufacturer's ink..
Ergo, an inkjet printer IS the best buy!
Don Woodruff
LATE REPLY, SORRY
by chrisfunk - 10/28/07 2:11 AM In reply to: Inkjet or Laser by waytronI have just read this artical and am a bit late now but let me put my penny's worth in....
My partner designs and produces printed 'stuff' for a living.
By stuff, I mean greetings cards, wrapping paper, wedding stationery, ugs, t-shirts, framed canvas prints etc etc.
She has a whole stack of printers and knows her stuff.
I wont go on and on but in short, unless you have a lot of money to spend a colour laser will not match an injet of even half it's price.
She has tried 2 models of colour laser in the £200 - £300 range and they are both rubbish, failing to print blocks of solid colour without banding and faded areas. In a detailed image you might not notice this but for bold colourful designs they can not perform.
She has stuck with Epson injets and has a range for different tasks.
Forget about refil carts, continuous ink systems are the way to go and the bottled ink you use costs far less per unit.
You just have to try different inks for your paper and not always go for the cheapest. Find a good one and stick with it.
ok I will platy your silly game
by wazzer - 10/30/07 3:32 PM In reply to: LATE REPLY, SORRY by chrisfunkcontinuous ink systems where do you find these?
continous ink supplier
by ronmac60 - 10/30/07 5:25 PM In reply to: ok I will platy your silly game by wazzerWasser, log on to www.echostore.com
scroll down to continous category and then scroll to see your model and make. Prices vary from $72 ot $93
Re in-jet over laser
by ronmac60 - 10/30/07 5:29 PM In reply to: LATE REPLY, SORRY by chrisfunkThank you CHRISFUNK for your valuable advice. I hope the folks read it. Nice to hear from 'Ole Blighty. My four years there during the War were a mixture of joy and grief but I shall never forget those wonderful NAFFI girls that were always there with a cuppa.
(ronmac60@yahoo.com)
Re cost of ink
by ronmac60 - 10/28/07 3:34 PM In reply to: Inkjet or Laser by waytronAll of CNET'S answers are informative and accurate.
However, from the thousands of articles and e-mails on cost of printing it should be immediately clear that anyone doing a lot of printing could not possibly afford to do it with $40 cartridges.
I am a retired eye doctor who enjoys writing book digests (reducing a 600 page book to 25 pages). I like to print these in large print and give them to people with visual handicaps. It is one way I can pay back for the success and enjoyment I had during my 50 years in practice.
I use a Canon Pixma Ink-Jet,which has 6 cartidges. I buy generic cartridges for $6.95 each and refill them with ink which costs me $17 per 500ml ($35 per quart) or $140 per gallon.
In this way the books I print cost about 25¢ and I can afford to give away a few hundred copies without much expense.
If I were to have to buy $40 cartidges I would not be able to ebgage in my philanthropic hobby.
Another use for the old "Dot Matrix" printer.
by Cadillac84 - 10/31/07 8:19 AM In reply to: Inkjet or Laser by waytronDana,
Your answers are always so very well organized! Thanks for your always helpful analyses.
I have a Panasonic wide-carriage dot matrix printer that I bought years ago and they are almost impossible to find these days. I use it once a year for a special project and it has long-since paid for itself! I have a note on the printer to remind me that I must buy a new ribbon for it because, even though the ribbon is barely used, it has dried out during the 51 weeks of storage and must be replaced. So I set up my job and get everything working and then put on a new ribbon and run the job (which takes about eight hours).
What is this job, you might ask?
If one does mass mailing using his own mailing list, the mailing service can use customer-supplied labels in a format called "Cheshire." The labels are printed on 14-7/8" by 11" fan-fold paper with perforated tractor feed four labels across and whatever number down per page. (I use a single line for record ID# and a four line address and print on a one-inch per label format.) The entire job is printed without breaking the "fan" so we end up with a big stack consisting of one continuous progression of labels on regular 18# or 20# fan-fold stock.
I provide several alignment pages at the beginning of the job so the operator at the mailing house can get his machine adjusted before he begins the "run." The labels are sliced out of the sheets and glued onto the mailing envelope and contents inserted and envelopes sealed in a continuous high-speed operation.
By printing these labels ourselves, we gain at least two things:
1) it costs less than if we sent the mailing list to the mailer, and
2) we do not have to share our mailing list by furnishing it on disk.
We print a book and we don't know what the press run will be until after the book has been finished. If we have 20,000 names in our list and they are "ranked" by "total assets" and we've decided to print 8,000 books we could easily do the math and print the labels in advance. But, the press run yielded 8,370 books, for example. So, we allow the computer to evaluate our database to send to the top 8,370 companies.
Tell it to print and go home for dinner. Come back after dinner to make sure there isn't a big pile of paper all over the floor! Come back in the morning and harvest the job. Cover the printer with a plastic bag and take it back to the warehouse for 51 more weeks of storage.
There aren't many other things I can think of where one might use Dot Matrix printer, and I'm sure that for $50,000 we could get a fast laser printer that would handle the job. But, that's MY story --- and I'm sticking to it!!!
Thanks again for your always informative answers.
Chuck
Potential winning answers.
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 10/26/07 1:55 PM
In reply to: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Here are the selected submissions grouped in one post. Read through them and place your votes in the newsletter poll.
Answer:
Inkjet or Laser
I'd like to share something with Ed on my experiences as both a color laser and injet owner. Let's see if I can break it down a little from my own experience:
Q: How do color laser printer fare as compared to inkjet printers when it comes to printing photos?
A: In my opinion, if you want 'picture quality', stick with the injet. I've printed a few pictures with my laser and was disappointed. There is no match for an injet that has correct ink and correct paper - the laser will do an adequate job - only adequate.
Q: Will color laser give me the quality of an inkjet printer?
A: It depends. If you're printing term papers and recipes, the quality will exceed that for injets. In fact, the laser will exceed your expectations for all but the finest picture. Again, if you print primarily pictures, stick with the inkjet.
Q: How about cost per page for color laser over inkjet?
A: This is a hotly debated topic and both have good and bad points. I would suggest more research on CNET and other sites to see if the costs calculated match your printing style. Keep in mind that each printer manufacturer rates their products for so mnay pages with a percentage of page coverage (e.g. 4500 pages at 5% coverage per page)
Q: What are some of the tradeoffs going to a color laser printer for photos?
A: Using a laser primarily for photos will leave you disappointed in the lack of detail. A good consumer laser will provide ~600dpi - a good, inexpensive inkjet can exceed 1440dpi or more. These dpi do make a difference in picture detail, crispness, and clarity.
Q: And are their any downsides to laser?
A: Definitely. The power consumption and heat generated are way more than an inkjet. The size and weight of the printer must be accommodated in your home or small office. When my laser wakes from it's power save, the current draw can and does dim lights and knock computers offline. Your home power must be able to handle the increased load. You will eventually need to replace the drum - granted at about 40-50,000 pages, but these drums are really expensive. Laser toner cartridges can cost upwards of $150 for some models - research consumable costs if you have a printer in mind.
I know Ed didn't ask this, but I feel it would make sense to answer the next question:
Q: And are their any upsides to laser?
A: Again, definitely. Printouts are very fast. If you have a printer with memory expansion, the prinouts are delivered even faster. I also like that the printouts are waterfast - ever been in a rainstorm with an inkjet printout? Some lasers are able to be networked and make a great network printer for the family with multiple computers and a home network.
I chose my laser because it seemed I kept using too much ink for the small amount of printing I was doing. If an inkjet isn't used for a while, the heads will require cleaning using even more ink. Speed and networking were the ultimate clincher for me for everyday printing on a network with multiple computers. For printing pictures, I still use my inkjet 
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=268510&messageID=2610776#2610776
Submitted by: anpav
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Answer:
Inkjet or Laser
Isn’t technology wonderful, inkjet printers are truly amazing examples of what can be accomplished when there is a buck to be made. And what is even more amazing is that manufacturers have come up with ways to package ink into small plastic containers that we are willing to pay up to $40 a piece for. If my calculations are correct, that $35.99 ink cartridge I purchased just yesterday with 21ml of ink in it, would come out to about $6,487 per gallon. Some cartridges work out to more that $11,000 per gallon of ink. And you thought gasoline prices were ridiculous. This is why they can afford to give you some printers for free when you purchase a computer. Ok, you get the idea that replacement Ink is expensive. I understand your dilemma, but a color laser may not be the answer especially when it comes to printing color photos. Yes, Color Laser printers can be less expensive, per page. But the print quality is just not there when it comes to photographs. Don’t get me wrong, Color Lasers are great for printing color documents, spec sheets and brochures but not for high quality photos. Don’t be fooled by the lowering prices of these units. A set of replacement toner cartridges for my color laser is almost $400. So, with that said, how do you lower your overall printing costs? In many cases the least expensive way to go is to have more than one printer but the first thing to do is step back and evaluate your total printing needs.
1. How much total printing do you do?
2. How much of it needs to be printed in color?
3. What kind of color printing? Are these Photos or just general purpose printing?
4. Are you printing a lot of letters and other black and white documents to an inkjet printer?
If you divide up your printing so that you use the most economical printer for that specific type of job, you will save a fortune in the long run. Here is a look at the different types of print jobs and which printers to use for what.
* Photographs *
Printing high quality photos is the most difficult and costly type of printing. Not only do you have the high cost of ink, film or cartridges but high quality photo paper can also be very expensive.
1. LIGHTJET – This is one of the processes that the big guys use and is as close to real photographic printing that you can get. It actually is the same developing process as normal photographs accept for the way that the photo paper is exposed. You are not likely to be purchasing any of this technology for home use, but you can certainly take advantage of it by simply sending your digital images out to be printed. Many people believe that this type of process produces renders the best quality images and will not fade with time as much as inkjet and other processes.
2. DYE-SUBLIMATION – This type of printer probably produces the best quality photographic prints out of the printers that are normally available for home or small business use and is one of the few printers that can actually print true continuous tones. The cost per print is a little higher and you are locked into special paper and supplies. You would not normally use this printer for anything other than printing photographs. Both Sony and Kodak makes a nice little units for printing 3x5 and 4x6 prints. These units typically run about 29 to 50 cents per 4x6 photo, so double check the price of the supplies before deciding on a specific model.
3. INKJET - Inkjet printers have become very popular mainly because of their excellent color printing capability as well as there low initial cost. Even though you may even get one for free, the cost of ownership is very high due to high ink replacement costs. In many cases just purchasing a NEWER model printer can save you a bundle. Printer manufacturers are constantly improving the print quality and lowering the cost per page to keep their printers competitive with sending your photos out to be printed. For the best photo reproduction, select a 6 color version.
4. OUTSOURCING - In the long run after you add up the cost of ink, photo paper and factor in for waste, printing errors and paper jams and if you are printing mostly standard 4x6 and 5x7 photos then your best bet may be to send them out to be printed. You can get standard 4x6 prints for under 20 cents each just about anywhere and I have seen them advertised as low as 6 cents (with a coupon) delivered to your door. That is less than the price of the photo paper alone. If you would like to see some reviews and prices for off-site photo printing, check out http://www.printrates.com/ . The nice thing about outsourcing your photo printing is you don’t even have to leave home. Just sign up online, download your photos and they are delivered to your door. If you prefer, you can take you camera memory card down to Walgreens, Walmart or your local photo store and get them printing, usually in less than an hour.
* General Purpose Color Documents *
This category of printing includes any color documents such as newsletters, brochures, spec sheets or even just printing a web page in color. These documents may include photos but is not the main focus and photo quality is not the most important requirement.
1. INKJET PRINTER – Virtually any model inkjet printer can print general purpose color documents on standard paper. However, the cost of the ink can be very costly if you print a lot of pages. NOTE: If your specific printing needs consists of printing more of one color than another such as a color logo on every page, then purchasing a color printer that has individual ink tanks for each color can save you money in the long run.
2. COLOR LASER – The color laser printer is ideally suited for general purpose color printing and typically has a lower cost per page then the inkjet printers. Color Toner cartridges generally last between 2500 and 5000 pages instead of a few hundred pages for an inkjet cartridge. NOTE: Some color laser printers can be rather noisy and may take up to a few minutes to warm up to print the first page. Keep in mind that even though you can purchase a new color laser printer for under $400, replacement toner can run you another $300 or more.
* Black and White Documents *
This is just your normal black and white printed page such as a document from Microsoft Word, spread sheet or could even be printed pages from the internet or other sources that are actually in color but do not need to be printed in color.
1. BLACK AND WHITE LASER – The Black and White (monochrome) laser printer is one of the best deals you can get when it comes to printing. The cost per page is roughly 1/10 that of an inkjet printer and the printing speed is equally impressive. You can get a monochrome laser for under $200 now and I have seen some units on sale for under $100.
2. INKJET – Any inkjet printer will print black and white documents, well, accept maybe the small dedicated 4x6 photo printers. Although, if you don’t mind your documents on a 4x6 inch piece of glossy paper, I suppose you could even use one of these. If you print a lot of documents, inkjet is not the most economical way to do this and you will find that you are constantly replacing ink cartridges.
3. DOT MATRIX –These are not used that much anymore, especially in the home, but still have a place where impact printing is required. Applications that require printing multi-part forms or printing through special mailing envelopes still use this type of printer. Some business users still prefer printing reports on a dot matrix or line printers.
**Notes on AOI (All-IN-ONE) Printers** – Both Laser and InkJet printing technology come in the very popular All-In-One format. These units combine Printing, Copying, Scanning and sometimes Faxing in one unit. If you have the need for any of these features you may want to include one of these in your printer wish list. Due to common conflict problems, avoid installing more than one All-In-One printer on a single computer.
**Notes on Networked Printers** – Many printers are now available with built-in networking and some even with built-in wireless networking capabilities. This feature can add anywhere from $50 to $100 to the price of the printer, but may be well worth the investment. If you have a network, either wired or wireless, a printer with networking would allow any user in the home or office to print to this printer without having to connect to it directly. Great for those of you who are roaming around with that wireless laptop.
SUMMARY
No one printer is ideal for all types of printing and there are many other types of printers that were not discussed here such as thermal label printers and solid ink printers. In most cases, the most cost effective way to handle all your printing needs is to have multiple printers installed on your computer or network. For example: I personally have 8 different printers on my Network.
1. Black and White Laser for Documents and spread sheets.
2. Color Laser for color Spec sheets, flyers and printing color letterheads.
3. All-In-One Inkjet for scanning, copying and the occasional color photo.
4. Large WIDE Format Inkjet Printer for printing large items.
5. 2nd Inkjet printer preset with roll stock photo paper (Just for 4x6 photos)
6. Thermal Label Printer for printing rolls of labels only
7. 2nd Black and White laser for backup printer.
8. Thermal CD/DVD Printer for printing directly onto disks.
Now most of you will not need this many printers but probably the most cost effective thing you can do is purchase one black and white laser printer to be used for all your general printing needs for when you can get away without color. Many of you might ask, why not use the color laser for the black and white printing too? And the answer is you could, but if you ever looked at the inner workings of a color laser printer, you would quickly come to the conclusion that it is amazing that this thing even works at all. I would prefer to wear out the cheaper B&W laser and if you happen to like to print labels or on other unusual paper stocks, the paper path on a color laser is just too complex. Save it for the color jobs.
Dana
Wayland Computer
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6142_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=268510&messageID=2615333#2615333
Submitted by waytron
One other Thought
by waytron - 10/26/07 3:37 PM In reply to: Potential winning answers. by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
One other thing I just wanted to mention on Inkjet printers and someone please correct me if I am wrong or things have changed with the technology, But I have had such problems with Epson inkjet printers over the years both clogging and using tons of ink just in the head cleaning process. If you use your printer at least once per day, they seem to be ok, but stop printing for a few weeks or months, and watch out. Plus every time you turn them on they always seem to be wasting ink out the head to clean. I have 2 Epson C80’s, 1 Epson C60, 2 Epson Photo 925’s and an Epson Wide Carriage 1520 that have all clogged because I do not use them enough and now need to be thrown away. I sent the 1520 out once for a new print head for $200 but that lasted about 5 months. I have purchase cleaning kits, cartridges and syringes and was able to a get a few working for awhile but that was it. They all need to go to the dump now. I have heard that Cannon may have similar problems but I have not had any problems with mine. I have never have problems with the HP’s. I still have 2 old Deskjet 722c printers that I use every once and awhile and if the ink dries up, you just pop in another cartridge and you are off and printing again. My understanding is that most HP models have the print head built into the cartridge and Epson and Canon have the print head built into the printer. So with HP, every time you purchase a new ink cartridge, you are getting a new print head as well. Again if anyone has more recent information, please speak up.
Printers-printing
by Born2B - 10/26/07 7:28 PM In reply to: Potential winning answers. by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
You forgot the option inkjet cd/DvD printer
as in Epson R200
Overall Very good job
Paul
None of the above
by isisdave - 10/26/07 5:07 PM In reply to: Photo inkjet printers vs. color laser printers by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I am sure you cannot print a photo ... particularly a 4x6 photo ... on an inkjet printer for less than the 16 cents charged by Costco, Sam's, or any of the other low-price processors. Recently, Costco was even giving free mailing, although that may have been a local deal.
If you exclude daily color printing from your inkjet, there is no reason to have one. A laser gives better text quality and cheaper per-page cost, it is much faster, and can now be had with features like duplexing.
reply to: None of the above
by vic.healey - 10/26/07 5:36 PM In reply to: None of the above by isisdaveI agree. I have switchted to two lasers, one B&W for ultra cheap and one color for fancier pages. I gave my inkjets away. I gave my Epson which I really loathed to a person who understood it was a poor value in spite of its great color output. I also gave away over a hundred dollars worth of ink I had no use for.
It is far cheaper to pay to have digital photos printed from a service than to buy ink and have it go bad or to hassel with an inkjet printer that needs cleaning before you can use it.
Cost per photo
by gandhawk - 10/26/07 7:30 PM In reply to: None of the above by isisdaveI Use an Epson RX580 with a continuous ink system(CIS) and my cost per 8 X 10 photo is pennies.
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