Home audio & video: why do all HDTV's look grainy at retailers?
banning plasma???? really??
by boxfresh151 - 10/13/07 1:45 AM In reply to: TV sets by retok01when you say "Some governments" which ones would this be? sounds like an Urban legend to me.
With the AUD reference, I assume retok01 is somewhere beyond
by NM_Bill - 10/13/07 6:23 AM In reply to: banning plasma???? really?? by boxfresh151the US.
As to any logic behind movements to ban plasma or any one particular technology as terrible energy hogs, I can't resist as familiar refrain, that of the awareness on millions of peoples part, of making well deserved adjustments to their way of life in order to move towards a more green way of life inherently good for the entire world.
And yes, of course typical Americans are such energy hogs that we have scores of readily available small changes to our lives to walk a little softer on the face of our earth. I won't embark into a long litany, but there are ever so many ways to start. Consider our motor vehicle use. Button up your homes. Wake up & support recycling. Don't overbuy & over use. Old style incandescent bulbs should be phased out.
Lead paint didn't used to bother me, but with Chinese toys, etc. it apparently is still around or no good reason. Here where recycling is voluntary, why am I one of the few who bother. It is a very small bother. My larger trash can should be for the recycling rather than being the small one. Yet otherwise heads up intelligent & caring folks just ignore it.
The list of concerns goes on & on. Buy once & buy right rather than promoting throwaways. The energy use differential is a legitimate concern, but certainly not of the magnitude of so many of my neighbors who have full size pickup trucks because they have great utility. That's fine, but they use the gas guzzlers for all their commuting. No good reason for it. People who move a couple pieces of furniture, nursery plants or brush a few times a year should rent a day at a time. Just start thinking about logical better alternatives, folks.
Re: With the AUD reference, I assume retok01 is somewhere be
by boxfresh151 - 10/13/07 10:38 AM In reply to: With the AUD reference, I assume retok01 is somewhere beyond by NM_BillOk.. well that’s all fine and good, but i really don’t think any nation is considering banning plasma tvs. I think someone is taking out of their @$$. Oh btw the peak energy consumption listed in the manual that sounds so bad is not what the tv is typically using. Bright images use a lot of juice and dark images use only a little. LCD’s however, use the same amount on any image.
TIP: if you want to same some juice and have a more natural picture take it off Vivid/Cool and go to Standard/Normal, now drop the contrast aka "picture" about 8 clicks.
Some folks seem to latch onto "urban legends."
by NM_Bill - 10/13/07 10:45 AM In reply to: Re: With the AUD reference, I assume retok01 is somewhere be by boxfresh151Because c/net has that list of comparative power consumption, chalk the San Franciscans up as touchy feelie tree huggers. It could be worse.
what are you guys talking about???
by kre8ive - 10/13/07 11:58 AM In reply to: why do all HDTV's look grainy at retailers? by Tyri3lthe screen not being calibrated? issues with repair and picture tube? 9 time out of 10 its going to be an issue of the broadcasting source. just ask one of the people working there what resolution the source is. generally its just a standard 480i tv source like cable. you have to have the proper source to see teh proper resolution.
Grainy TV's on a sales floors.
by gabereyes - 10/13/07 10:41 PM In reply to: why do all HDTV's look grainy at retailers? by Tyri3lIt does not matter what resolution the signal is 480 720 1080, resolution does not give you a grainy picture, maybe an fuzzy picture but not grainy.
grain in the picture is from to high of contrast, sharpness, and edge enhancment aka VSM, when a TV is pushed to hard in contrast it losses stability of sharp edges and color trans, and with a pure digital signal there is no need for sharpness or edge enhancments, all they do is try to add a dark outline on light images or a light outline on dark images, like if you draw a picture in pencil and went around the outside of the lines with whiteout, and this is where the problem starts, the TV processor has to guess what a edge is to outline, and it makes lots of mistakes it trys to outline everything like buttons, hair, grass, etc in the picture and makes a so called grain in the image.
you can make this go away in almost every TV as long as it lets you turn off the edge enhancments in the menu, most store feeds are fine as long as its not a very weak signal and the picture starts to freeze up most send a ATSC signal through the store on a channel and also have local HD channel sent to each TV also so you could have them change the channel to a local SD or HD channel, but the grain will still be there.
hope this help and good luck.
One more thing to consider for your purchase. . .
by silvercbr - 10/14/07 7:26 AM In reply to: why do all HDTV's look grainy at retailers? by Tyri3lThere have been several good posts regarding technology - and addressing the "graininess" you mention.
I want to add one more thing to consider for your purchase - reflection! I'm a fan of LCD because, in part, I love the clean images without distracting reflections on the screen.
In a store, the TVs are *usually* placed in an area without windows or other natural light, which helps. Once you look for it, though, you will soon see everything that is going on behind you instead of the displayed image. . . At least that's true for me.
I know I'm biased, though - I also prefer a matte frame, but they are harder to find.
Regarding the picture quality, we searched around and found some great tips on tuning (which includes properly setting your cable/dish box) - it made all the difference! Now SD is *great* (so much better than our old picture tube) and HD is *sublime*!
Have fun. . .
Reflections
by gabereyes - 10/14/07 8:27 PM In reply to: One more thing to consider for your purchase. . . by silvercbrmost plasma TVs have a highly reflective screen that reflect's lighing, most people dont know they do this for a reason.
If you think about it, It all make since the best black level LCD TV is the Samsung models with a glossy screen that reflect's lighting, the glossy screen also reflect's lighting from washing out the picture and give's you a stronger black level and contrast so you will have to decide what works better in your home, you should always control the lighting in your room for any type of TV on the market, but to get glare on a glossy screen the lighting or window have to be behind you, and LCD and Plasma both have models with glossy and none glossy screens.
Gabe
Because nothing beats a good CRT
by 139_IQ - 10/14/07 8:18 PM In reply to: why do all HDTV's look grainy at retailers? by Tyri3lI seriously cannot believe the level of ignorance in our society today.
Honestly, it's very sad.
The reason for the grain that you see on 'Hi-Def' televisions is the extremely poor picture quality of LCD/DLP/Plasma technology.
None of these technologies can match a CRT in a combination of black-level accuracy, color accuracy, motion response, and brightness - end of story.
You have all been fooled by clever marketing and the fact that very high-quality CRT televisions are no longer made so a proper comparison cannot be made in the showrooms.
It still stuns me that we have gone BACKWARDS in video reproduction quality.
BTW don't get your panties bunched over an HD signal, I do think HD signals can be of very high quality - just not the final reproduction via LCD/DLP/Plasma.
Get your heads out of the sand America! Corporations are milking you for every last one of your retirement dollars and giving you very, very poor picture quality.
Re: Because nothing beats a good CRT
by boxfresh151 - 10/15/07 1:33 AM In reply to: Because nothing beats a good CRT by 139_IQYes CRT’s are great. As long as you have a lot of room on you shelf and don’t want a very large screen. Oh and don’t get your speakers near your CRT!
The fact is most people shopping today want convenience over quality across the board. CD sales are waning as itunes and mp3 players take over the market with far far lower sound quality, but it’s convenient.
A big screen that doesn’t displace all the air in the room is what’s hot nowa days.
Progressive inevitable doom. People want big, widescreen
by NM_Bill - 10/15/07 6:35 AM In reply to: Re: Because nothing beats a good CRT by boxfresh151pictures. CRT can't give that to them. At 32" my last CRT was nearly 100 pounds & self destructed from massively generated heat. The plastic case got so toasted it became brittle as to break away when attempting to move the unit. And, yes, it was in a well ventilated location.
So at, what was the biggest, 36"? It went well over 100 pounds. So prospects of 42" & over would have required cranes to relocate.
Yes, they generated much electric field affecting any unshielded speakers. Yes, the picture seemed great. But they became dinosaurs, people. And to demonstrate how quickly people become detached from an issue, not long ago I posted about the burn in factor always having been great with CRT & had posters back denying that was true at all. Gee, haven't they seen the burn in on the ATM machine if not a TV?
CRTs can & have been fine. Bargains for folks without much money so they can reasonably enjoy all those 27"ers priced nearly like they are giving them away. Beyond that, it's gone folks.
As LCD is apparently the cheapest technology, that is what will be crammed down our throats.
No one makes a good CRT anymore.
by gabereyes - 10/15/07 9:24 PM In reply to: Because nothing beats a good CRT by 139_IQoh boy its getting deep in here.
CRT WAS king with some faults it could not get any bigger then 40inchs, it could but never did have straght lines up and down or right to left, and it could but never did move up in resolution.
the NEW KING is plasma, why? it uses the some of the same material as a CRT tv this is phosphor it is what light up to creat colors, contrast and brightness on the screen, so they are almost the same as CRT tv other then gas vs tube.
although Plasma does not always have the same black level it does have higher resolution, perfect lines aka geometry, and its made in bigger sizes.
I will be buying a plasma to replace my sony CRT kd34xbr960 as soon as I save the money, I am taking donations lol.
BS
by froasier - 1/8/08 2:46 AM In reply to: Because nothing beats a good CRT by 139_IQFirst of all, LCD/DLP/Plasma do not have "extremely poor picture quality" in any meaning of the phrase. Grain has nothing to do with black level, color accuracy, motion response, or brightness, and no grain in a LCD/DLP/Plasma TV should be caused by the TV itself. I don't know where you are getting your facts anyways--tell me one reason LCD/DLP/Plasma are incapable of matching CRT in any of these qualities. Not to mention none of these qualities are anywhere near as noticeable in comparison as the ones in which LCD/DLP/Plasma clearly excel at: screen size, resolution/clarity, geometry, aspect ratio, bulk/weight, etc. I don't know what TVs you're looking at and describing as "very, very poor picture quality", but they're obviously not the right ones to be judging the technology on.
shop around
by froasier - 1/8/08 3:26 AM In reply to: why do all HDTV's look grainy at retailers? by Tyri3lThe type of store you're looking at may not have the best deals. Here are some 1080p sets in each category I found easily at one popular online retailer (I won't name it so this won't seem like an ad, but you can find these and similar prices in various places) I repeat, all 1080p:
Panasonic 42" Plasma, $1500 w/ free delivery
Samsung 50" DLP, $1300 w/ free delivery
Sharp 32" LCD, $1000 w/ free shipping
Toshiba and Westinghouse 42" LCDs, $1200 plus $100 delivery
and more, all with great customer ratings. Maybe even better deals on 720p sets.
BTW, you're right in most of your assumptions. I was at a W**Mart the other day and all of their HD sets looked horrible, but it was due to a crappy signal, not the TVs themselves. When properly connected to a computer, "next gen" video game system, upconverting DVD player, or HD-DVD/BD player, any $1000+ TV should be fairly impressive, and not grainy at all. Compare with that in mind, and pay attention to specs too if you can't get them to demo a good signal in the store. Lastly, you can always look at reviews online.
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