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Community Newsletter: Q&A: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator - 10/18/07 11:01 PM
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Post 91 of 130

Re: 1080i vs 1080p

by Pannylover4ever - 10/13/07 8:24 PM In reply to: Re: 1080i vs 1080p by remmeler

In response to remmeler above.

There is actually no "line doubling", the number of lines stay the same. The odd and even frames are simply combined in a method known as de-interlacing. You might be confusing this with the early HD CRT screens that were 960i and used line doubling.

I worked in broadcasting for 3 years and when you have any sports/action/fast motion objects, 60fps is superior to 30fps due to the motion being captured 60 times a second vs 30 times a second. So 720P is a trade-off for smoother motion with lower resolution. With the resolution not becoming a factor on 50" or smaller screens at the optimal viewing distance of 2 x 50" at 8.3' (per the SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers) standard, 720P gives you a better experience in many ways with smoother motion.

HD broadcasts are not just 1080i, they are either 720P or 1080i with the SD channels and SD DVD's being 480i.

This means that your 1080P screen is up-converting/scaling all the 720P channels. Native resolutions are always superior to scaled ones since scaling adds noise and artifacts no matter how expensive the scaler is, since your are adding pixels into each frame using interpolation algorithms.

So 720P looks better on a 50" 720P screen vs a 50" 1080P screen everything else being equal. You got to compare apples to apples here. 1080i would tend to look better in most cases on a 1080P screen since the image would only need to be de-interlaced.

My point is that there really isn't a clear cut "better" picture with either format since you are not using native resolutions all the time on either one. There are factors such as screen size, material, native resolution, contrast ratio etc. to consider. But all material looks best when its presented native and without any processing such as de-interlacing or scaling. Altering the original adds noise, artifacts etc no matter how well its done.

So on either screen there will be scaling and de-interlacing used. Down-scaling is always superior to up-scaling due to the fact that discarding material from each frame is a lot easier than adding material to each frame.

This also leads to the fact that down-converted 1080i/P on a 720P screen will in most cases look better than up-converted 720P on a
1080P screen (there is no 720i).

You can easily see this on your LCD computer screen. Adjust the resolution above the native resolution and see how it looks, then adjust your resolution to lower than native. The results will speak for themselves.

Post 92 of 130

Buying Advice for HDTV 720p vs 1080p

by nico_mo - 10/13/07 12:14 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I'm also very interested in buying a 1080p - but my major concern is power consumption. I'd like to have a nice big screen - but I don't want to be seen as un-carbon friendly. Can anyone reproduce the size per watt ratios for me? I mean how many watts does a 1080p 50" screen consume in an hour or 60" for that matter.

Post 93 of 130

hdtv

by rinoa1 - 10/13/07 12:48 PM In reply to: Buying Advice for HDTV 720p vs 1080p by nico_mo

hey i got a th 50px50u and if you want it buy it don't listen to a alot of stuff hear.is great even regular tv looks great.i have great theater.that's what money is made for.buy enjoy it.cause you never know whaen we are going to expire.

Post 94 of 130

Buying Advice for HDTV 720p vs 1080p

by mountaineer - 10/13/07 1:49 PM In reply to: Buying Advice for HDTV 720p vs 1080p by nico_mo

nico_mo: WOW! With your state of mind I would think that you would not buy ANY tv! They all take electricity. In fact, you should walk, not drive and you should have your activities scheduled for the light of day and just sleep at night. Maybe you should get some unbiased education on the effects of global warming(?): It's obvious you have seen and fell for Al Gore's film. You are in need if some good education. GET IT!

Post 95 of 130

Mountaineer needs to go back to the mountains..

by Pannylover4ever - 10/13/07 4:56 PM In reply to: Buying Advice for HDTV 720p vs 1080p by mountaineer

Considering power consumption and being environmentally responsible is never a bad thing. Its a valid point for nico_mo to consider the differences, and buying energy efficient equipment can save your hundreds per year easy, without sacrificing anything in many cases (besides the environmental factors).

Besides, don't most people do their activities during the day and sleep and night...???

Post 96 of 130

Mountaineer thanks for the insults

by nico_mo - 10/14/07 2:32 AM In reply to: Buying Advice for HDTV 720p vs 1080p by mountaineer

1. This is a forum for buying advice on HDTV's.
2. Al Gore - He I believe is campaigning for something in America, his film I haven't seen as I don't live in America.
3. I walk to work every day.
4. I work during the day and sleep at night.
5. I studied Computer Science and Mechatronics at University and attained very good grades.
6. I am educated.
7. Your answer did not provide me with anything at all useful nor was it any anyway intelligent.
8. The only thing you are good at is insulting.
9. This is my last comment on CNET.
10. USER UNSUBSCRIBED.

Post 97 of 130

MOUNTAINEER THANKS FOR THE INSULTS

by mountaineer - 10/14/07 9:17 AM In reply to: Mountaineer thanks for the insults by nico_mo

Nico_mo: My first reaction to your reply was how uncertain you were with your stand. To "cut and run" based on my reply was not what I intended.
For certain, if you were educated in "Computer Science and Machatronics(?)" as you state, then you should have the necessary tools that would allow you to figure out your original question.
My intent was not to ruin your day and, yes, this is a television buying forum but if you are at all concerned with the incremental increase in power consumption within the various formats, then be advised that the most significent increase in power consumption will be in the screen size i.e 42"/50"/60" within the same format.If further info. is needed just refer to the operating specifications for the respective televisions. ( LCD/Plasma). *End of comment*

Post 98 of 130

My quick answer

by emgesp - 10/13/07 4:04 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I would choose the 1080p model just for the bump in performance in other areas. It has a less cleaner overall picture, and also less false contouring. Although, 1080p is hard to discern the difference in any display smaller than 58+", the cool thing is you can sit closer than a 720p display because the pixels are tighter. So you can get away with having a bigger display in a smaller room.

Post 99 of 130

Edit

by emgesp - 10/13/07 4:07 AM In reply to: My quick answer by emgesp

In my previous post I accidentlly said the 1080p is less cleaner, I meant to say it's got cleaner picture than the 720p display. Sorry for any confusion.

Post 100 of 130

Let me speak from experience Yves.

by hawk318 - 10/13/07 7:16 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Last spring we purchased a Westinghouse 37" LCD, HDTV that peaks at 720p.
It has a great hi def pic.
About a month ago we got the HDTV I'd been waiting for since I heard it was being put on the market... The Pioneer 60" plasma 6010FD,(1080p) HDTV. Also bought a Toshiba HD DVD player.
I tried the HD DVD player on both (just for kicks..it's hooked to the new set;-)
There was no mistaken the difference between the 720p & 1080p... The 1080p wins out hands down!
HD DVD's were outstanding on both, but there was better detail with 1080p.
The most significant difference was when playing my older DVD's. The Toshiba has the feature that "up scales" the standard DVD picture to 1080p (or at least tries) The results are a picture that is actually (IMHO) better then movie quality.... Not so on the 720p (It was good, but not like the 1080p)

My two cents worth is:
If buying under 42" and going to be more then 10 feet away... 720p LCD would be fine.
50" or better go 1080p.

One more thing I found while shopping and comparing (I checked out about 8 HDTV's in 4 stores).... Buy the best you can afford!
For instance the Pioneer I bought has 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs... Make sure you have at least 2 (I already have used 2 and will need one more shortly) I have my HD-DVD in one, the HD Cable in the 2nd and am adding a HD-DVD recorder in the 3rd soon (heh, we record a lot of programs;-)
After looking at all the features.... You do "Get what you pay for!" Or at least what you're willing to pay for.....

Look, check features & make a pest of your self...
Have the sales prson hook up a HDDVD player to the one (or ones) you're trying to decide on and get out a DVD and play it for you... This way you get an idea if you're getting the picture you want.... Not some pre configured DVD made by the manufacturer to highlight the picture THEY want you to see.
My salesman pulled out a regular DVD of Zorro and the picture was really good, thus I knew if a regular DVD was so good the HD one would be great ;-D

Post 101 of 130

Altitude and plasma tv

by deanvet - 10/13/07 10:43 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I have not seen a mention of the effect of altitude on plasma tv. I live at 7500' and may be moving to about 9000'. I have been told that a plasma tv is not suitable over 6000' and even read one study that said 2500' was the maximum for good viewing.

Also, I have seen nothing regarding sound volume problems. I have not found a set that has what I call "smart sound" that keeps the program and commercial sound levels the same. Any comments on this?

Additionally, as one of those of us really up in years I have not been able to decern much difference among the various sets which I view from about 12' away. My old but faithful 25 year old Toshiba is beginning to have some problems and as of now I'm looking seriously at 42" 720p LCDs.

Thanks to all who have posted on this forum.

Dean

Post 102 of 130

HDTV 720 VS 1080p

by rinoa1 - 10/13/07 11:27 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

hello there.this is the first time me doing this.i have a panasonic th 50px50u and i get all. 480p 720 and 1080p with a standard 480p and it looks just find and the blue ray dvd players they cost to much for what they are going to diliver if they whant people like us to pay for them they got do better with the price.cause to me it looks the same to me

Post 103 of 130

1080p vs 720p- what a scam

by Geekapoo - 10/13/07 6:57 PM In reply to: HDTV 720 VS 1080p by rinoa1

1080p vs. 720p....you would be extremely hardpressed to find any difference unless you have a 50+ inch screen and either BluRay or HD DVD as your source. Oh yes, I know the drill.....with the limited HD content (and expensive DVD player to run it), the video is absolutely amazing. Hmmmm, isn't that what everyone has been saying about 720p the past couple of years? LOL.

1080p is to some extent hype and a scam....you have companies pushing 1080p when there is not broadcast content and very limited DVD source. All indications point to broadcast not going 1080p. If you want to buy the 1080p, by all means do so! Makes the 720p cheaper. Yes, there is a difference with the right source but 720p is already amazing (or did everyone forget that?). So very special to have all the manufacturers selling tech that has so very limited use. Yea, everyone wants to buy that tech of the future, to have the best on the block (not really knowing when the bulk of the content will be delivered or in what format).

Save your money and buy the best 720p you can buy.....best contrast, best colors, best processing....and worry less about 1080p vs. 720p....as a high end 720p will thrump alot of the 1080p out there (with many being so-so in quality. Myself? Bought a 50PX77U Panny....almost bought a Pioneer. Yes, I could tweak the quality down the road with 1080p and something like Blu-Ray but feel the 720p quality amazing as is (and have seen the two side-by-side to know the difference).

Post 104 of 130

720p device with 1080i input

by remmeler - 10/13/07 7:21 PM In reply to: 1080p vs 720p- what a scam by Geekapoo

Maybe, if you are monitoring this discussion, you can answer my question that I posed earlier?

If my source is 1080i, I will be getting an interlaced signal. It will downgrade that signal to 720i and with the line doubler in the set it will de-interlace it with another downgraded 720i signal and present it to you de-interlaced on your set. Wouldn't it be better to have two 1080i signal de-interlaced and presented on the set rather than two downgraded 720 signals, because remember the signal is an i signal so no matter what you are going to get two halves.

Post 105 of 130

Lots of research

by coastiemac - 10/13/07 12:48 PM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

If all the answers still don't settle your mind, I will not be surprised. In short, I would say that with your current DVD player, save your money.

Longer form explanation: Having done a lot of research myself into the different pixel quantity and other quality factors, most consumers seem to debate most heatedly the perceived quality difference 1080p has versus the rest. At the end of the day, I feel that the TV buying guide right here on reviews.CNET.com gave me the answer I found most useful.

No matter how many pixels your set or monitor can display on your screen, the other various quality factors play just a big a role, if not bigger, black level being the most important. And if you haven't gone into a store and physically compared different input levels from various manufacturers, you won't know if you can even see the difference.

So Yves, if you haven't already ran out and purchased your T.V., I recommend reading their buyer's guide, doing a little leg work, and buying something cheap, as they are constantly upgrading.

Best of luck.
- Mac

See:
TV buying guide - http://reviews.cnet.com/tv-buying-guide/?tag=dir

HDTV resolution explained - http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5137915-1.html


P.S.: While not the best monitor in the world, I ended up buying a 42" 1080i Westinghouse for 899.00 from Newegg.com and it came with a free wall mount.

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