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Community Newsletter: Q&A: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p
- 10/18/07 11:01 PM
Re: 1080i refresh rate
by Pannylover4ever - 10/14/07 7:11 PM In reply to: 1080i refresh rate? by remmelerIn response to remmeler above.
The NTSC frame is a 480i picture sent as two 240 line frames called fields. The first field is line 1 3 5 etc up to 479, the next field will be 2,4, 6 up to 480. The CRT screens used the persistence of the phosphorus so when the electron gun was done drawing the odd lines, it drew the even lines before the odd lines had faded back to black. The was however always some fading between the fields which caused the annoying flicker on your old CRT screen.
Your screen can line double the 480i to 960i and smooth the "venetian blind effect" by drawing each line twice or filling in between the lines using algorithms.
Since all the newer screens (Plasma, LCD, DLP etc) don't use phosphorus anymore (plasma uses Argon, Neon and Xenon gas), they have to convert the signal to progressive scan since they draw all the lines 1 2 3 4 to 720 or 1080 every time (hence Progressive scan).
You are correct that 1080i/60 is converted to 1080P/30 by combining the fields giving you a 1080P picture. It does this however at the cost of the frame rate (30fps vs 60fps) compared to 1080P/60 from HD DVD's and Blue-ray. There are always problems with de-interlacing material, since the odd and even frames are captured at a different point in time.
The effect can be minimized using different techniques to combine the fields (like edge detection) but the material will never be as sharp as 1080P/60.
More detail is available here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing
If the subject is moving, the subject
720P is good enough but.....
by gto2050 - 10/8/07 5:09 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Most people cannot tell the difference from 1080P and 720P but if you are interested in future proofing your TV, buy 1080P. There is nothing broadcast, and likely never will, in 1080P. The only source today is either HD DVD sources or PC's. That being said, there are only a few hundred dollars difference in pricing between 1080P and 720P. Plasma prices have plummeted in the last two years making it a very affordable medium.
If you watch a 42" TV from 6-8 feet away, you cannot see the difference in 1080P and 720P. However, 108P lets you have a total immersion experience. It can be viewed closeup for PC work or max detail on video games. Go for it!
720p or 1080p reply to "Which Should I Buy?"
by kajedman - 10/15/07 7:03 AM In reply to: 720P is good enough but..... by gto2050First of all I would recommend going to a store that sells a wide variety of HD sets hooked up to a HD signal and do a side by side comparison for yourself. Everyone says you can't see the difference between 720p and 1080p at smaller than 50". I say Hogwash! Personally I saw a big difference especially in Sony and Samsung's lines. You really need to see for yourself. No one can tell you what your eyes will perceive.
One can, however recommend things to consider when buying.
Here are 6 of my own recommendations:
1. Viewing environment, such as size of room, distance from tv the viewer will be, lighting, height of tv (on stand, or wall?)etc. My kid, as much as we deter him, likes to stand very close, so to save his eyes and so he can actually see the picture, we went for 1080p.
2. Type of programming. For example, LCD is great for animation and plasma is just a little better for movies and such. I have kids, so LCD it is.
3. Viewing time. For example, we watch a lot of tv, LCD lasts longer than plasma and can take more abuse I.e. kids, so again, for me LCD it is.
4. HD DVD / BLU RAY: Sooner or later one will take over, or they will combine (not likely, but maybe). When VHS first came out many people said they have no reason to own a VHS player. Eventually they did buy one though. In any case, if you will ever, ever consider purchasing an HD DVD player 1080p is the only way to go.
5. Price. Obviously 720p is less expensive, however if you shop around and catch a good sale you can actually get a good 1080p set for about the same as a 720p that is regularly priced. SHARP AQUOUS was my choice and they seem to run good sales from time to time. AQUOS is about a 7.5 to 8 on the 1 to 10 scale and a 42" 1080p set can go on sale for about $1200 to $1300! I have seen 720p Panasonics go for that much and they are about the same quality technically.
6. Quality / brand name. You get what you pay for! While you can get a good deal on a Vizio, and the picture actually looks pretty darn good, you don't know where the components come from (and trust me, you can see components from ten different companies in 10 of the same Vizio sets), or how long they will last? Some companies do not even have an actual home office! If your a gambling man, or woman, these "No frills" sets are a great way to go. Being a recipient of Murphy's Law throughout my life, I was tempted by Vizio, but through a moment of clarity decided on Brand name only.
These are just half a dozen of the more important things to consider which come to mind. What I usually tell people is that if you are purchasing a HD TV for lets say a Bar, Restaurant, or any other kind of commercial use, 720P LCD is the only way to go! My Brother In Law recently opened a restaurant in Massapequa Park N.Y. called "Miller's Place". I installed 7, 50" Panasonic 720p LCD sets on his walls and behind his bar. They look absolutely breathtaking! I then purchased a 42" Sharp Aquos LCD set for my Living Room and it looks absolutely breathtaking (and the 2 different sets were exactly the same price), so you get my point. It's all about personal preference and consumer knowledge.
In all my homework before buying a set there are 2 top of the line HD sets which to me looked much better than all the rest. Had I the funds at the time, one of these would have been my choice. So for all of you with money, here they are.
First, Sony 1080P LCD, any model, any size = beautiful picture and sound. Keep in mind though that I thought their 720p sets were no better than anyone else's.
Second, Samsung 1080P LCD and Plasma. Any size and the LCD when playing animation is no less than "Stunning". Their 720P sets look great too.
For the more financially challenged like me, here are my 2 best choices.
Sharp Aquos 42,46, 50 inch and up 1080p LCD sets all have some really great pictures and new technology which is exclusive to Sharp. Check their website, I think you will like what you find.
Panasonic LCD all sizes. They seem to be the rulers in the 720p department. Long lasting sturdy set with excellent customer support and a picture you will not be disappointed in at all.
Good luck and enjoy the future 20 years after it was supposed to happen!
Pete from Oceanside..
720p or 1080p reply to "Which Should I Buy?"
by Pannylover4ever - 10/15/07 8:46 AM In reply to: 720p or 1080p reply to "Which Should I Buy?" by kajedmanIn response to kajedman above.
1. You make a good point and I think everyone agrees that viewing environment and distance make a difference. But at recommended viewing distance at 8' for 50" screen, you can't see the difference between 720P and 1080P, especially on Cable or SAT material (unless you have better than 20/20 vision). See the data for yourself at: http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/HDTV_Viewing_Distance.htm
2. Material on both is a tie, there are minimal differences, animation and movies looks great on both but I can see your point here.
3. The is no difference in durability between the two, both are rated at around 60k hours. If you would watch either one 8 hours a day, every day of the year, the sets should last 20 years.
4. The forecast for the BluRay vs HD-DVD is that there will be no winner for at least 2 years, probably a lot longer.
5. The price premium on 1080P plasma vs 720P is around $1k. If you would find a 1080P at the same price as 720P it would be lesser model.
6. I would agree with you to buy a brand name set, the Vizio sets I have seen have had obviously inferior picture compared to brand name sets next to it, and by now the price difference is minimal.
I must however admit that I lost you in the bar setup. There are hardly any 50" 720P LCD sets out there (especially considering LCD sets are usually 52"), and Panasonic (as far as I can find anywhere) has never made a 50" Flat Panel LCD set. The biggest Panasonic LCD set I can find anywhere is 32". They have only made 50" LCD Rear Projection sets that wouldn't really compare to FP sets.
Considering that you said you were putting them on walls and behind the bar, they can't be RP's so you must have installed 720P plasma sets (if they were Panasonic).
Sony and Samsung share LCD panel manufacturing. Last time I checked, most, if not all Sony LCD panels are made by Samsung. The Sony sets appear to gain additional features with the price premium and do look sharp, although very expensive. However, the LCD discussion is a separate issue that I'll try to keep out of on this forum, since it is not relevant to the original question.
Hope you enjoy your set.
720 vs. 1080 Panasonic Plasma
by d_kozel1 - 10/8/07 7:11 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
If you're just talking about watching DVD's, I doubt you'll see any improvement with a 1080p set.
In fact, there's a store near me that has the two models next to each other with an HD source, and I doubt I could tell you which has the higher resolution without the descriptive tags.
At 50", it seems to me, the benefits of 1080p are questionable.
HDTV 720p vs 1080p
by DrJohnOH - 10/8/07 10:00 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The answer has nothing to do with what you are watching, since broadcast and cable give you either 720p (ABC, Fox, ESPN, CW to mention a few) or 1080i (CBS, NBC, PBS, TBS, TNT, Discovery, Universal, HBO, Showtime, and others), and has everything to do with how far away from the set you will be sitting. For a 50" set, you will be unable to detect any difference between 720p and 1080p distance of greater than 6 feet, which is closer than you'll probably sit. This is a matter of the resolution of your eye and nothing the company does nor the salesman says can change that. So save your money, go for the 720p
HDTV
by Dytkowski - 10/8/07 10:26 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Your best bet is to go with either 1080I or 1080P. They are the best for High Def TV. by using your HDMI cable to your HDTV the 1080 TV will give you a much better and clearer picture that 720I or 720P....
Your best bet on DVD players is to wait for the dust to settle and one format is finally decided. You don't want to experience the problem that happened when the VHS and BETA wars ended up with VHS winning and the BETA units ended up in the junk piles......
50-inch tv
by deaths_little_helper - 10/9/07 6:06 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The important thing to remember is, you get what you pay for and you did mention that you will someday get either blu-ray or hd dvd (which ever survives...I'm waiting for the same outcome) Anyway, if your going to end up getting an upgraded dvd player someday, why end up replacing your new 50-inch tv when that comes? I say pay the extra now, and not have to deal with buying another 50-inch tv...
480p on 720p or 1080p native resolution
by Hosscat_Bully - 10/9/07 7:29 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
To answer your question directly, no you should see no differrence in the two signals, assuming they are using similar upconversion routines. However, unless you are planning to get a new TV in another couple of years, I'd buy the 1080p (which I recently did) to be prepared for future resolutions. Believe me, its worth the money. I bought a Playstation 3 and blu-ray is breath taking.
Think ahead
by gslrider - 10/9/07 9:02 AM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I personally would spend the extra dollars for a 1080p. Eventually down the line, you'll end buying that Blu-Ray or HD DVD. And maybe even before that, you'll get a 1080p upconverting DVD player. You will then get the benefit of 1080p on hand.
IMO, 720p and 1080p resolution isn't exactly night and day when it comes to SD DVDs, or non HD media, but you will see the difference.
Which Panasonic Plasma to buy?
by HiDefBob - 10/9/07 2:12 PM In reply to: HDTV buying advice: 720p vs. 1080p by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
720p or 1080p?
- I believe that a 60" screen is the smallest size you should consider if you want 1080p
- 46" is just too small ... IMO you are wasting your money to go 1080p at this size ... better to buy a 720p set.
- 50" may be OK if you sit about 6 feet away ... otherwise you are not going to see the difference 1080p makes.
- 60" you will see the difference if you sit close enough. The recommended distance for this size when viewing HDTV is 8 feet.
480p DVD - 1080p?
- unless you plan on purchasing a Blu-ray or HD DVD player in the new year purchasing a 1080p IMO will be a waste of money. You just are not going to get much benefit. You are better to go with a 720p set ... spend the money you save on a larger size screen ... go for 60". Most people will agree ... the bigger the better!
Blu-ray or HD DVD ... which will survive?
- if you are waiting to see which format will survive IMO you are going to wait a very long time.
- all indications are that both formats are going to be with use for a very long time. Most reviewers now believe that both are going to be winners ... but these formats need your support if we are not going to witness another SACD/DVD A disaster!
- buy a combo player if you cannot decide on one or the other.
Panasonic Plasma?
- before you make a final decision on which Panasonic plasma to buy, I urge you to take a look at the new Pioneer KURO plasma series. IMO they have the best PQ in the business at the moment ... certainly no other plasma or LCD display on the market can equal them for their blacks! At a local dealer they have a Panasonic 65" 1080p display on one wall and a Pioneer 60" 720p on another. According to the salesman, everyone always picks the Pioneer as the better of the two!
I hope this helps!
Which Panasonic Plasma to Buy
by mountaineer - 10/13/07 7:29 AM In reply to: Which Panasonic Plasma to buy? by HiDefBobHello: I tend to agree with you on your screen choices but the decision is not simple or easy. I have just bought a Pioneer PDP-6010 FD, supposedly the best currently available and, in fact, will take delivery this comming Monday. So I am looking forward to the experience. But it was a difficult and trying decision. The price of a plasma, when exceeding the 50" size goes up exponentially. And with this Pioneer model the cost is even greater. I made my decision knowing that this, or similar, models will probably be 20-25% cheaper within a year. BUT you can minimize this cost differential by scanning the web. I bought this TV because it was future-proofed for at least three years and it takes advantage of the Blue-Ray format. I considered the 15-20% over standard formats acceptable. Of course, the increase in cost is due to other factors as well: Such as advanced electronics and greater variety of inputs and outputs. I feel that it is a choice that will be made based on the thickness of your pocketbook and how desirable a superior picture will be to your psyche.
Get the Fujitsu
by Compushine - 10/13/07 4:59 PM In reply to: Which Panasonic Plasma to buy? by HiDefBobIf you want 1080P get the Aviamo line.
Hands down the best TV on the market.
www.plasmavision.com
Craig
If you want 1080P get the Aviamo line
by mrhoads - 10/13/07 5:26 PM In reply to: Get the Fujitsu by CompushineA 50" Aviamo is $10,000.00. You have to be kidding. You can buy more than four extremely good 1080P's for that cost.
Pan. vs. Pion
by silver8 - 10/14/07 10:38 AM In reply to: Which Panasonic Plasma to buy? by HiDefBobIn my opinion, both sets are probably pretty darn good. But I'd bet the salesman is setting you up for huge spiff he will make if he sells you the Pioneer.
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