Home audio & video: BLUE RAY PLAYER OR PLAY STATION 3 ?
still the big question
by sarafrans - 9/24/07 11:16 AM In reply to: One possible downside to PS3 by kcfvegasSome of us, like me, may wonder what you all mean by "upconvert" and "upsacle dvds". Will a PS3 play normal DVDs? HD DVDs? What won't it play? How will the PS3's capabilities/disabilites affect the everyday consumer?
--
by ..ben - 9/24/07 2:22 PM In reply to: still the big question by sarafrans"Upconversion" and "upscaling" are often used interchangeably, referring to the process of taking a "normal" DVD signal (720x480i) and changing, or upconverting, it into a native 720p/1080i/1080p signal which is sent directly to an HDTV. The process involves two key elements: de-interlacing (the i in 480i stands for interlaced) and scaling (taking the image described by the DVD and sort of stretching it, by copying and averaging the colors of adjacent pixels in the source, aka interpolation, for example, to fill all the extra available pixels that your fancy-pants HDTV has). The quality of the upconversion process, in general, can vary on the chips used. Googling or searching this or other forums will give you more information.
What can the PS3 play? Blu-ray discs (BDs), for all intents and purposes are the same as HD-DVDs (technically they can hold more data, making them superior, but in practice, so far, most BDs are the 25GB versions, comparable to HD-DVDs), and regular DVDs, and it will upconvert DVDs. Well, technically, the PS3 doesn't actually do the upconversion; it relies upon the video processor built into your TV. Don't fret, every HDTV has one; it's how you watch all those non-HD cable channels... But the end result is an "upconverted" DVD signal that does look better. Not the best, like an Oppo, but better than "regular" DVD players.
The PS3 will not play HD-DVDs. I suppose you could consider this a disadvantage, but there's only one player that plays BDs and HD-DVDs, the BH100 made by LG and has an MSRP of $1200, I don't really think it's fair.
CNET has said that given the PS3 a very high rating, much due to its features outside of playing games. I have a PS3 and enjoy it thoroughly. The percentage of people for whom it would not make a great player is small.
Regarding BDs and HD-DVDs, there is A LOT of new technology, much of which is not even useable right now, such as new colorspaces, 2560x1440p resolution, bitstream HD audio, etc. For the "audio and A/V enthusiasts", these new discs offer extended benefits that can be experienced with specialized equipment. I mean, you can watch a Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc on a 20-year-old TV... but it won't be in HD; you need an HDTV. The same is true for the audio. For the "average consumer"***, the only drawback currently is the price, although considering that it's currently one of the least expensive BD players available, it's more of an asset than a liability. And btw it plays games, lets you store your music and video and picture collections, has a Web browser, etc.
*** If you ______________, you are an "average consumer":
- listen to movies using the speakers on your TV
- bought a Home Theater in a Box speaker system
- don't know what the different versions of HDMI mean (or weren't aware of versions at all)
I hate making such generalizations, mostly because it's not for me to make... and hopefully I haven't offended anyone, but I think that effectively weeds out the Geek Squad members among us. I'll explain the criteria: the speakers on the TV don't give you surround sound, duh; unless you spent $1500+ on a HTiB, I'm not sure that the speakers will yield a noticeable difference between lossy and lossless audio soundtracks; while all versions of HDMI can carry 8 channels of PCM data, only version 1.3 can carry encoded bitstreams for DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD.
Again, there is only a small group of people for whom the PS3 is insufficient. I gotta go right now, but if you want to know, just ask.
Best,
Ben
..."Upconversion" and "upscaling"
by mango2404 - 10/14/07 9:37 AM In reply to: -- by ..ben[quote..."Upconversion" and "upscaling" are often used interchangeably...]
Just a note to be careful here: Some might indeed use "Upconversion" and "Upscaling" interchangeably, BUT in doing so it can be inaccurate and can lead to a few disapointed purchases as some companies do infact make a distinction between the two.
"Upconversion" is the conversion of a signal from one source format to another e.g. from S-video to Component, or Component to HDMI.
"Upscaling" is the process as described by Ben e.g. from 1080i to 1080p
For instance the AV receiver SONY STRD910 will "upconvert" a signal that is input via component and allow this to output via HDMI, but it will not "upscale" the video source from 1080i to 1980p.
Upconversion is obviously easier to do and is useful in that it allows you to plug a variey of idfferent devices (DVD, Satellite, xbox etc) into the receiver and have a single HDMI cable going into the TV. Upscaling generally requires more specialist hardware/software - something like a Faroudja chip to de-interlace and then scale the signal.
huh?
by lilsim89 - 2/17/08 1:31 PM In reply to: ..."Upconversion" and "upscaling" by mango2404I see your point, but you can't\don't upscale 1080i to 1080p, you only deinterlace it. Using a buffer, it combines the interlaced image to create a picture that is very close to the quality of a real 1080p signal.
Upconversion doesn't have to mean changing the signal over a different cable, though it may. You can upconvert a component signal from 480p to 1080i by interpolating 'new' information. That's what most people mean when they say 'upconverting'.
Yes
by yuyiboy - 2/17/08 2:51 PM In reply to: huh? by lilsim89I agree with your point;
that is why you only need a firmware update, To de-interlace the signal (but never true 1080p)
you can use your (newer) AV receiver to up-convert since the PS3 doesn't have a million ports and connections.... Could add a little port multiplier to the back.
The great thing is that the PS3 uses it's proprietary software to transfer and buffer the info in the games to improve speed in certain areas of the game when more definition is needed and when it is not.
And it does this on the fly!!
the dvds look great now and will look better when firmware is put out to improve it.
But just remember guys.....to the human eye there is not much change between 1080i and 1080p.
It's like buying a camera with 10 megapixels when the human eye sees only 4. Mega pixels are only good to blow-up a pic to giant sizes. (that's another topic for another day)
your TV is the chalkboard......... If it's too small, doesn't matter how much info you write on it, it just wont fit.
Make sure your TV keeps up with the great things you are throwing at it 8-)
yuyiboy
No downside at all
by yuyiboy - 2/17/08 1:03 PM In reply to: One possible downside to PS3 by kcfvegasThe playstation 3 does not up-convert regular dvd to 1080i or 1080p but the processor it uses along with the video processors that it uses for the games, removes any artifacts or blockiness and fuss and cleans-up the image creating something that is amazing......I was impressed to say the least.
I even venture to say, that it looks close to 1080i.
Remember.......Playstation has the BEST firmware of anything out there. it is even upgradeable to play the new format for new Blue-ray disks 2.0 or something like that....that allows you to among other things watch a movie with different angles on picture-in-picture at the same time!!! cool
So since the firmware is so fantastic, all it needs to up-convert is a new firmware download from sony.
I'm sure they are already dealing with that (no need to buy a new system ever) unlike a stand along player.
Anything that comes down the pipe in the future, PS3 can just get another sofware update.
PS3 is future proof!!
sorry to ramble just wanted to get my point out there. Thanks
..
by ..ben - 9/17/07 8:39 AM In reply to: BLUE RAY PLAYER OR PLAY STATION 3 ? by bultacobobOnly pay for what you use. If you can hold out, BD player prices will drop. Why pay $500 when you can spend less (down the road).
That said, I have a PS3. It's exactly what I hoped it would be. Compared to other BD Players, CNET agrees that it is a worthwhile player. And Sony has been reasonably responsive about addressing issues.
The other thing is that the PS3 will/has evolve(d) over time; it's not like consoles of yesteryear that have the same features whether you buy it the first day it comes out or the last. It's unlikely that you would not be able to find uses for it other than watching BDs, unless you simply never bother to try.
By the way, your Caps Lock is on.
Best,
Ben
PS-3 + SONY 70" WILL BLOW YOU AWAY
by stewart norrie - 9/17/07 12:23 PM In reply to: .. by ..benI bought one of the first stand alone Sony Blue ray players $930 with discount ha ha. hooked it up to my 73" Toshiba d.l.p. set and talk about a true movie theater experience. The PS-3 is going to give you the samke awsome picture and sound I ran h.d.m.i. straight to the t.v and audio straight to the t.v. one adjustment I had to make was the output setting on the player you have the option of 480 all the way to 1080P set that option to auto In closing you can now rent blue ray movies from blockbustor and hollywood vidio I also found out that some of the first blue ray movies that were releaset have picture quality problems. You also made a good choice in buying a huge screen size t.v. they give you a real movie theater experience good luck stewee
bob
by jostenmeat - 9/18/07 9:04 AM In reply to: BLUE RAY PLAYER OR PLAY STATION 3 ? by bultacobobI have also heard of PS3's excellent upscaling ability. Though, only bothersome to particular owners, some have complained of 1. noise and 2. blu-tooth only remote. (can't program into universal). However, there indeed seems to be some creative workaround, you will have to search the internet.
What people love: is upgradability. The Cell processor is supposedly one seriously powerful thing.
What I Pesonally wish it did have right Now: either decoding abilities for new formats, or multi-channel analog outputs.
anyone know if firmware has allowed PS3 to output 24fps? any timeline for decoding abilities, to then send as pcm via hdmi? cheers.
..
by ..ben - 9/18/07 9:18 AM In reply to: bob by jostenmeatThe PS3 can do 1080p/24Hz now.
I'm not sure it will ever decode; I think it'll send bitstream HD audio via HDMI, hence the necessity for 1.3 compliance.
B
Blue Ray or Play Station 3
by lmathews - 9/19/07 11:52 PM In reply to: BLUE RAY PLAYER OR PLAY STATION 3 ? by bultacobobI guess it all depends on what you really want to do. If you want to play games and watch BR movies with a hard disk to store your games & movies then I guess PS3 is your bet. Personally I would wait until they come out with a multiformat (BR/HDD) player/recorder with hard disk. If you run all you home theater, gaming devices and multimedia PC through a newer AV Receiver with has the capability to upscale regular DVDs to 1080p then you dont have to worry about PS3s inabilty to upscale (if at all)
Keep the kids away from the big TV
by dkreview - 9/20/07 1:26 AM In reply to: Blue Ray or Play Station 3 by lmathewsI will wait until the dual BR/ HDD machines become available for home theatre. If I connect a PS3 to the big screen, I will never get near it again! The boys will have to make do with a 26" screen for all the car races & general mayhem. Another 6 months & I should be able to get both machines for the current price of one.
audio
by spear_a_lobster - 9/20/07 4:55 PM In reply to: Keep the kids away from the big TV by dkreviewthe main difference is that the ps3 does not have support for the most advance audio. also, the load time might be a little slower. if you want ur sound 2 be perfect and wont play games much, then i suggest u get a standalone player. otherwise, go for the ps3.
...
by ..ben - 9/21/07 9:56 AM In reply to: audio by spear_a_lobsterPlease clarify "the most advanced audio". And last time I checked, load times were quicker than stand-alone players.
audio and load times
by spear_a_lobster - 9/21/07 4:26 PM In reply to: ... by ..benthe ps3 does not have an analog audio output so it does not support 7.1 and some other audio codeces. as for the load times, a lot of the more current players can load faster than the ps3.
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