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Spyware, viruses, & security : Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent
- 9/13/07 8:55 AM
Yes Microsoft has heard of backward Compatibility
by john3347 - 9/21/07 6:02 PM In reply to: Hasn't Microsoft heard of backwards compatibility? by ausvirgoThis comment may be slightly off target for the current discussion, but I wish to answer the question posed concerning Microsoft and backward compatibility. Microsoft used the phrase "backward compatibility" many, many times during the Windows 95 and Windows 98 era. Unfortunatly, somewhere between Windows ME and Windows XP, it got dropped and replaced with "designed obsolescense". Such a pity!!!
OpenSource == Covert Code (?)(!)
by pmchefalo - 9/22/07 6:33 AM In reply to: This may or may not be true Marianna.. by jackintucson
The comment about a Microsoft employee writing covert code to exploit machines is interesting -- I have always maintained and do to this day that OpenSource is all about gaining access to as many PCs as possible.
The source code may be open, but the ability to interpret same is not a common skill. Much low level OS code is "write-only." That's why the "many eyes" theory has still resulted in many patches for PHP, Mozilla and ... Linux. (Try this on for size about the Ubuntu patch "methodology" - it just happened to be the FIRST hit on a Google search: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/a_bad_taste_in_the_mouth_detailed_ubuntu_patch_review/)
If you do not ostensibly make a living from or warrant the code you contribute to an OpenSource project what prevents you from introducing exploitable bugs that maybe you CAN profit from?
Microsoft updates WITH your permission....
by Gweezel - 9/21/07 5:08 PM In reply to: Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent by Marianna Schmudlach
Microsoft does not update files without your permission. The only program it does update, it does with your permission: the Windows Update itself.
This program is updated automatically if you choose to (1) automatically download and install updates; (2) download but don't install updates; or (3) notify for new updates but don't download or install. In order for the service to do any of this, it has to be updated. How else is it going to work?
If you choose to update manually without being notified, nothing is downloaded or updated.
Courtney sends....
So What!!!!
by Grimbles - 9/21/07 5:27 PM In reply to: Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent by Marianna Schmudlach
Sooo, Big Bad bill is now 'secretly' updating Windows........SO BL**DY WHAT? What would you do if a window opened on your screen saying "Important updates are ready for your computer, click here to install now......signed Miscrosoft"......Would you ignore it?....not likely...so, what's the problem? I find it impossible to believe that MS would 'stealth' install anything malicious or intrusive, THAT definitely would not be in their best interests.
Get over the conspiracy theory people!
Cheers to all.........JIMBO
Windows Spyware from Microsoft
by randysvh - 9/22/07 1:19 AM In reply to: Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent by Marianna Schmudlach
It is sad that Microsoft is so intrusive in their approach to watching and monitoring what you do. It is has become so much so that i have turned off Automatic updates not only on my own system, but on every system i fix or attempt to clean up. When i find the WGA program on a system, i remove it immediately. Any activeX that really is not required to maintain and keep your system running, is disabled or removed. I use both the manage add-ons and other tools like winpatrol, and spybot to remove these kinds of add-ons not only from Microsoft, but others that are unidentified, or unrecognized.
Microsoft itself is intrusive. I have it from knowledge of an internal source that the monitoring does occur and to an extensive amount. Everything you do on the internet is recorded. This is how they can direct the appropriate advertisements to your searching and online travels. If Microsoft is doing this, who else is and what else are they doing and collecting on your behalf? personally i avoid anything do with a Microsoft web site unless it is absolutely necessary for technical knowledge or support.
If you download a file from Microsoft that requires validation of your system, avoid the WGA, and use the alternative method at the bottom of the screen.
As has already been mentioned, Linux is the best alternative to the problems associated with windows. Linux is stable, and requires little to no extra add-ons to protect the already well secured environment. Sure each version is different, but overall they give you the protection that Windows does not. I use Linux as much as possible, and convert my customers to Linux as most of them have simple needs and can avoid all of the extra add-on security i need to provide to help provide some minimum sort of protection.
Do not be afraid to install Linux in a dual boot situation and Linux will set up a dual boot so you can boot to Windows when you feel you need. Do not forget that Linux has WINE which is a Windows emulation and makes it possible to run many applications including MS OFFICE if you feel OpenOffice.org is not enough for you.
Whatever you do turn your automatic updates for Windows - OFF.
randy
So........Who's being intrusive now?
by Grimbles - 9/22/07 3:11 PM In reply to: Windows Spyware from Microsoft by randysvhRandy - You admit in your post, "I have turned off Automatic updates not only on my system, but on every system i fix or attempt to clean up. When i find the WGA program on a system, i remove it immediately.".....and you reckon that MS is intrusive!....you'd better have a closer look at your own practices.
ALL large corporations collect and correlate statistics to help formulate a market strategy, most of which is based on user demographics and choices. So what if MS know that in 2006, 300,000 Windows users visited the 'www.getalife.com' site? I fail to understand the paranoia associated with MS when each time we deal with a large company we willingly divulge all sorts of personal information, whenever we fill out a product warrantee (e.g. buying a new motor vehicle) or sign up for a new service (e.g. telephone)- what do you think those companies are doing with that information?
As for Linux being an alternative.....Linux is a joke - How many different distros are there now...50?...100? Each and every one has an imperfection (a substandard feature), their help forums are largely indecipherable and availability of drivers for peripheral hardware practically non-existent. I have a Canon MP800 multi function which I use regularly and often, for Linux I can get a basic printer driver and that is all....no scanner, print to DVD/CD, etc. What use is that to me and literally hundreds of thousands of people in a similar position?
I am NOT a fan of monopolies nor MS, I deplore some of their marketing strategies and stand over tactics BUT I have no problem whatsoever with 'Automatic Updates' even when they are delivered by stealth.
Whatever you do turn your automatic updates for Windows - ON.
JIMBO
Lack of experience
by randysvh - 9/22/07 11:41 PM In reply to: So........Who's being intrusive now? by GrimblesDear JIMBO,
I a sorry to disagree with you, which i do not do here very often, but i have studied this stuff for too many years and like you i dislike MS. They have practices that are less than honorable. Their update practice falls into this category. i am not saying that all of their updates are phony or intrusive, but i know from a known inside source that the WGA program is spyware that does what we hate for other companies to do and remove their spyware from our systems. WGA is just one of those and from MS. The updates are part of this problem. The IE7 update falls into the problems associated with automatic updates. Make sure your automatic updates feature is turned OFF. Please, protect yourself with the programs i have suggested here elsewhere that are available from download.com.
Please Automatic Updates - OFF
randy
An Explanation Of The 'Stealth' Microsoft Updates
by mowgreen - 9/22/07 11:21 AM In reply to: Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent by Marianna Schmudlach
" Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates."
That's just TOTAL B.S. I tested this on a VPC installation of XP Pro SP2. It hadn't been booted since April 2007. The *ONLY* way that the Windows Update Agent/Client is updated is if the Automatic Updates options applet in the Control Panel are set to Automatic, Download updates, but let me choose when to install them, or, Notify me, but don't automatically download or install them.
IF the WUA was not updated then the system can not be updated until the WUA is updated. Period.
Disabling Automatic Updates via the AU applet will block ALL updating of system files required to use either Automatic Updates or the Windows | Microsoft Update sites.
Disabling the Automatic Updates SERVICE will block ALL updating of system files required to use either Automatic Updates or the Windows | Microsoft Update sites.
An Explanation Of The Stealth Microsoft Updates
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/blogs/mowgreen/index.php?showentry=1166
I did not know you were a member here
by roddy32 - 9/22/07 5:21 PM
In reply to: An Explanation Of The 'Stealth' Microsoft Updates by mowgreen
Mow but when I click on your profile, I see you have been for a long time. LOL Glad to see you posting.
Ya never know
by mowgreen - 9/24/07 2:18 PM In reply to: I did not know you were a member here by roddy32
Where I'll turn up <w>
Totally agree
by Donna Buenaventura - 9/25/07 10:37 PM
In reply to: An Explanation Of The 'Stealth' Microsoft Updates by mowgreen
Hi mow {{waves}}
I totally agree that disabling it will not install any. No silent update at all from MS.
If we allow MS to check for updates (whether auto-install or not auto-install), there it will install the update silently (at least in Vista since it's "built-in or integrated" WU instead of using browser to check for updates).
Still MS can do better on this item I think. How about informing user that there is an update to the software updater? I'm sure that's easy for them to do so no one is surprised again when the software updater in Vista was actually updated.
I've seen it happened last June: http://www.dozleng.com/updates/index.php?act=calendar&code=showevent&event_id=39385
The Windows Software was update automatically. Not offered at all. I know it's safe but if other software vendors can "offer" it thru dialogue box or via its updater, why not MS? 
At least users will be informed that there's new one.
Stealth patches
by Shadyrok - 9/24/07 12:40 PM In reply to: Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent by Marianna Schmudlach
Oh boy, was I LIVID when Microsoft stealth patched something on my Machine (XP) which caused me to be unable to send EMAIL. I rarely have to actually call support but I had to actually call. I complained bitterly but I'm sure they don't give a hoot about that.
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