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Topic: Home audio/video gear
Event date: September 20th, Thursday from 11 a.m. to 12 Pacific Time
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-12548_102-0.html?forumID=136&threadID=263041

That is the Zap Obvio. It's cool. It runs on e85. Not out yet, but it is fairly cool. It will be made in Brazil. It seats three and the brake and accelerator pedals are flip-flops. A take on the goofy foot gas pedal I put in my subaru in high school. Made me teary eyed.

It's fast too, according to the video I saw.

Who manufactures the green & orange car on the headline to the forum? That car looks beautiful! Where can I get it??

There you go. On other notes, electric cars won't blow up like they do on Mannix so I do worry about what will happen in action movies, but it's a small price to pay.

The issue is what happens if the battery dies? If the main battery dies, the DOT says the car still has to have power. So you have to have a regular battery on board to run all of those things. It's just an odd twist in the saga.

It's not any different than your normal car in that respect. Hope this answers that.

Definitely. Much less Soviet. And all of the sports cars are great. I've been in a few and people stare at you. It brings back the fun of driving.

The reason for our low numbers on the 2006 (2007 does this too) is our location. The software in these models don't kick all the hybrid features on till the motor is "hot."

We are in the Boston, MA area so cold weather does slam mileage on this model.

Funny the 2003 model didn't have this issue.

I'll ask. Here's another sneaky problem. Electric cars have to have supplemental batteries to keep on the lights, hazard lights, etc. in case the main battery fails. Sort of like how your radio works if you run out of gas. It's a problem some didn't think of at first.

39 MPG. Do you do a lot of freeway driving?

Those 2003s were great, by the way.

As far as costs go, electrics still cost more. EV execs and battery execs admit that. Even a plug-in hybrid can't be considered economical yet--You will spend more on the conversion than you will save in gas in all likelihood. But if things come down in price, you can start to make an economic argument. Ian Wright of Wrightspeed estimates that plug-in hybrid trucks could become economically viable in a few years.

I've read that fire departments conduct a little extra training these days to teach responders how to deal with hybrids, but the Jaws of Life thing isn't such a big deal because the power wires for the car don't go through the roof pillars, which are what need to get cut for difficult extrications.

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I agree that the tax break is much less a factor than the other things you mentioned... but anything that helps keep money in my wallet on April 15 is icing on the cake.

Purely on aesthetics, another thing I feel is important is that the newer hybrids are looking more like "cars" than they used to. I wasn't a big fan of the design of the Honda Insight or older Priuses, but hybrids are looking good these days.

I know Honda America has that answered. On both our Hondas the high voltage is not in the top or door areas where you see the jaws of life used.

Hint? The better trained sales staff knows this answer.

Yes Brammo. The cycles don't go as far as cars. They range from 40 to 60 miles on a charge. But they are cheaper. Zero sells its 250cc equivalent bike for $7000. So you can go electric without a second mortgage. It's fast too. Street legal version coming soon.

One reason they are cheaper and can get to market earlier--Zero and Vectrix now sell their bikes--is that crash testing is less. The DOT assumes you will biff.

I don't know. Will have to look at that. I just love using jaws of life in conversation though. They are one of my favorite household tools.

Gas is cleaner than petrol. And these cars work. In big cities a lot of the cabs are CNG. Shell is also working in Qatar to build a Gas-to-liquids plant. This converts natural gas into a liquid through the same process used to convert coal to a liquid. (The taxis you see have compressed natural gas--it's still in the original vapor form.)

The issue with NG though is you are probably adding more CO2 into the air than the alternatives. It's new carbon from underground rather than recycling it from corn. The gas from Shell is also a bit pricey.


So in short, not the best alternative to petrol, but better than petrol.

We are now on our second hybrid (Honda Civics.)

The first was the 2003 which was purchased before what some feel was before high price gas. While our 2006 doesn't fair as well on the mileage (39MPG over a year vs. 47 for the 2003) it's been very nice to sip lightly from the pump.

Looking forward to having the Volt, if and when such arrives. Yes, we have a 20 mile roundtrip commute to work.

In fact, any plugin hybrid may do well for us.

The old GM EV results speak well for those naysayers saying electrics costs more than gas.

While others lament their trips to the pump, we don't.

-> Waiting for the next step.

Brammo is doing the Enertia electric vehicle.

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Is it true that rescue teams cannot use the jaws of life on hybrid cars because of a danger of electrocution? I'm trying to separate hype from fact. Thanks!

The answer now is everyone but my grandmother. Here are some of the new car makers: Tesla, Phoenix Motorcars, AC Propulsion (retrofit), Wrightspeed, Miles Automotive, Think, Zenn, ZAP. Bricklin also has a company and some guys in England are doing a sports car. Then there are at least three motorcycle companies: Zero, Vectrix and some other guy in Oregon I forget the name of.

Also, Nissan is doing electrics and Toyota, GM etc have talked up the concept.

Who wins? Who knows. Although Tesla is the best organized and funded of the new ones. And Zero has a great motorcycle.

There was a letter to Mr. Roadshow in the Mercury news recently ( http://www.mercurynews.com/mrroadshow/ci_6836548 ) extolling the low fuel costs and other benefits of compressed natural gas (CNG) cars, which prompted me to look around a little. I found various articles online suggesting that CNG is also more green than gasoline due to lower lifecycle emissions (refining, pumping, etc.).

And there's also the point that natural gas is a US domestic resource, so shifting cars to CNG would reduce the need for oil imports.

Do you hear much about this alternative?

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Some studies say it's important, but my gut says no. People buy Priuses because of the status value. I've never heard anyone talk about the tax breaks. Sales did drop a bit when one subsidy ended, but the sales are pretty strong. What's your feeling?

There probably will be programs to promote electrics. Count on London, Germany and SF to have programs: free parking, rebates, etc. But I think these cars will get sold because they are fun to drive. The silence and speed are amazing.

First, gas isn't going away for a while. Barring a sudden, international environmental cataclysm, people will continue to buy gas cars. (Hate to be so cheery in the morning). But you will see more alternatives.

The most common ones in the near term will be plug-in hybrids and clean diesels. Both are good. If you do a lot of freeway driving, the clean diesel might be a better option. Plug-ins lose some benefits on the freeway. I personally want to see the Honda clean diesel Accord. It gets 62.5 mpg. It hits California in 2010. At that level, it's as good or better than a hybrid. If you run it on biodiesel, there are even greater green benefits.

If you like plug ins and would benefit from that, there are options in the next two years coming out.

Ethanol is good, but it's tougher to find that diesel. Pure ethanol cars might take a while. Electrics will likely be a niche for years--like five to seven.

Hydrogen further out. I actually drove a hydrogen prototype. It was a blast. Too bad it costs $1 mil right now.

You can use a normal outlet, but a lot of car buyers are working on fast charging outlets. If you buy a Tesla, you get a free home charging unit.

Special chargers can charge faster. GreenIT technologies wants to set up charging stations that can do it in ten minutes. That'd be great. But it sounds a bit scary. Will look more at that in the future.

How significant is the tax break in buying a hybrid car or an electric car? Will electric cars be eligible for the same tax breaks as hybrid cars?

Which type of new (electric, ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen, etc.) is the one that is mostly like if at all to replace gasoline cars in your opinion? Also how long do you think it will take and is the hybrid car a viable stepping stone or should one just wait till the new types come out?

Do they plug into a normal 110v outlet or does one have to have a special outlet installed into their home?

In most cases now. However, you are seeing regulations that will encourage EVs. In Delhi and some cities in China, the local governments have banned standard diesel cars and buses. That's given an impetus to go hybrid, ev, etc.

But as far as the price goes, it will come down. There are a bunch of battery companies--A123, Altair Nano--working on the price issue. Chances are, you will see a lot of plug-in hybrids first and then more electrics.

But as far as it goes, electric seems to be a better fit for sports cars than sedans when you think about the customer profile.

People buy sports cars for fun. Commute and range is less of an issue. Price is also less of an issue if there is punch in the engine, and electrics are fast.

Almost 200% over cost of gas cars. I don't see anyone jumping on to EVs anytime soon. I know it's good for the enviroment, but it will be out the price range of majority of consumers.

Are all car manufactures mandated to have a hybrid or EV car in their line up of cars for sale?

Thanks Michael

The main challenges are price, charge time and range. AC Propulsion, for instance, will convert your $17,000 Scion into an electric. The conversion costs $55K. That's a lot.

Range on most electrics is only 120-150 miles. That's longer than most commutes, but it means giving up flexibility. Will you give up being able to go on a family trip (without a recharge) or will you buy a gas car?

Charge time ranges from three hours to ten. Motorcycles better here. Only takes two hours.

But the speed is good on most.

What are some of the challenges that car manufacture have with electric vehicles?

Is it still true that it takes a long time for these cars to charge?

Limited speeds (slow), made more for around town driving, and very few miles per charge?

Another debate at the conference was on whether GM deliberately killed the car or whether other factors were afoot.

Tom Gage of AC Propulsion, Gary Starr of ZAP and Dennis Hogan of Phoenix Motorcars blamed GM.

Ian Clifford of Zenn (electric car maker) and the producer of the movie put some blame on the state of the art of batteries

"I truly believe we won't see mass acceptance of electric vehicles until a lot of the barriers are broken down," he said. Charge time and price were two barriers he cited.

I was able to attend the GoingGreen conference in Davis, California this week and a lot of the battery and car companies were present. The most interesting note was that some said Nissan would be the first major to come out with an electric. Altair Nano said that.

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Ask the Editors Live with CNET News.com editor at large: Michael Kanellos!

Green cars live chat event with editor, Michael Kanellos starts this Thursday September 13th at 11 a.m. to noon Pacific (2 p.m to 3 p.m Eastern). Where Michael will be answering your questions on clean cars: biodiesel, ethanol, and electric cars, and when--or if--you can get one. Get your questions ready and see you at the event!


Click here for upcoming Ask the Editors Live events and past transcripts of events.