Car Tech: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped?
- 8/8/07 4:41 PM
Tesla cool, price not
by bauer100 - 8/16/07 5:14 PM In reply to: All-Electric Tesla Is Already in Production - Take That, GM by dlauberi like the Tesla alot, but the goal of the Volt is to be affordable to anyone.
I do not think it is a hype
by jcjacque - 8/14/07 1:39 AM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
Living in Belgium, and working on alternative fuels since 30 years, I became aware 10 years ago that if the biofuels are interesting and promising they could not solve all the economic and environmental problems of ICE.
An electric car such as the GM-Volt is better that any car working with an ICE even with alternative biofuels. We recognize however that the production and distribution of electicity may be a source of some environmental problems but not to be compared to the ones of the ICE.
I think a lot of people have understood this, and a car such as the GM-Volt appears to be a practical solution to their problems.
A lot of people around me say they cannot wait to buy the car as soon as it will become available if the economics (sale price and performances) of it remain as announced.
Hype or trial balloon? THINK????
by DownInIowa - 8/14/07 10:05 AM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
Not to repeat previous opinions, some of which hit the nail... But didn't Ford have an electric project that they predictably ignored/mismanaged/mothballed? There is a company derivative to that failed effort that MAY actually put some wheels on the road soon (late 2007-early 2008?). Check out THINK.NO as the Think City might be of interest to many. And it seems to be more than hype - there is even a deal to have Tesla supply batteries. Fun website that has an english version. THINK about it... And this from a country that has relatively inexpensive gas.
C'mon...it's a CONCEPT...which are ALL ABOUT hype
by make_or_break - 8/14/07 12:32 PM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
GM floats a balloon and it flies. How is that over-hyped?
The whole point of presenting concepts is to gauge public and, just as importantly press reaction, if only to see if a vehicle idea is worth pursuing without having to take a chance and spend all the resources up front. Considering GM's financial picture over the past few quarters, it makes far more sense to do it in this manner than to have actively developed this with nothing more than gut feel and a wing and a prayer that it'll fly with the masses, focus groups notwithstanding.
After all, this IS the monolith that gave the world the Pontiac Aztek.
This has my attention.
by R. Proffitt
- 8/14/07 12:38 PM
In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
We're a 2 hybrid family. Now with 2 units we'd love to get an all or almost all electric car. We commute 20 miles round trip to work and so far any PHEV could mean never stopping for gas and paying the 1 to 2 cents a mile for the electricity. Even if electric rates double that's 4 cents a mile which still beats our 50 MPG hybrid.
Bob
Volt Hype??
by Cajun_Cycler - 8/15/07 7:28 PM In reply to: This has my attention. by R. Proffitt
Interesting how every time we get a "concept" vehicle that might wean us off oil the technology is always 20 years away. I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of car companies particularly GM constantly dangling that carrot nobody ever gets to taste...
its the Media's fault.
by bauer100 - 8/15/07 8:30 PM In reply to: Volt Hype?? by Cajun_CyclerThe media is hyping the Volt, comapring it to this, and that. passing judgements on something that doesnt exist yet. im sure Gm isnt going to complain free publicity. Now the new Camaro, that is hype.
Overhyped? -To the Car Tech followers only
by jluchford - 8/16/07 4:13 AM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
Car-tech people are above average in knowing about cars, obviously, so hear about news because they look for it. The average person is not a car tech follower. Follower? Maybe....
It is important to get ads specifying gas savings into the public eye more than ever. Looking at the current ads and you will see gas gulping ads and commercials specifying speed and power over gas ("zoom, zoom, zoom"). Heck -just LOOK when you get your coffee through the drive-thru next time. Can you see the end of the line? If the answer is "Yes" it's because you are in one of the many SUV's or trucks idling in the line using up gas on a short trip!
Overhype from GM: What else is new?
by georgej780 - 8/16/07 3:49 PM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
The company that's contributed to destroying the US auto industry has always made promises it knew it could not keep, while churning out consistent crap on the same platform. Garbage!
I hope not!
by larry123 - 8/16/07 10:41 PM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
Liveing only 11 miles from work I'd buy one in a heart beat for 95% of my driveing.
Hype!
by poshrat1 - 8/18/07 4:43 AM In reply to: I hope not! by larry123Wake up and smell the fumes people...as long as you are quoting MPG..you are reliant on the pump, which is directly connected to the Oil Companies, and if you think the price per gallon will go down when we all start using hybrids capable of 200 mpg, then you are dreaming in technicolour..they certainly are not going to see their obscene profits drop in an attempt to conserve a vanishing resource..your miles traveled per dollar out of pocket will probably cost about the same as now no matter how little fuel you put in the tank.
Hybrids are ALL hype. Mainly to placate the minds of those concerned about the new religion of Global climate change..makes them feel as if they are doing 'something' about it, even if they don't quite understand what.
As for bio-fuels..great idea..now we turn the already strained soil over to producing an alternative to oil, by pumping the ground full of petro-chemical fertilizers to sustain a uni-crop system to power our transport..which soon becomes obsolete as we have nothing left to take to market as farmers race to cash in on cash crops..that is until Agri-business gets into bed with the oil companies, in the same manner as the car companies have done.
The fact that any foods will have to be imported, as we now only produce fuel on our farms is something to be considered, especially when it becomes more expensive as third world countries realize they now have to same position as the Middle East does now..pay the price or go without.
As for hydrogen fuel cell technology..why go that route? Any car on the road right now could be fueled by hydrogen, after modifications..but of course that would lift the monopoly away from the oil companies unless we agree to them extracting hydrogen from oil to keep us under their tight control...but to do that requires more energy than making gasoline, so what's the point in that ?
I agree..if that was the case...but it ISN'T!
Any country with access to geothermal energy can extract hydrogen from sea water at almost no cost. Iceland is already doing this..and if you want a real eye-opener..go read this web page.
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/CHEMWEEK/Cl2&NaOH/Cl2&NaOH.html
For those of you baffled by chemistry goobledegook..part way down the page is the statement
" The chlorine gas and hydrogen gas are collected separately and piped away from the electrolysis apparatus. The chlorine is dried, compressed, and liquefied for shipping and storage. Although the hydrogen can be compressed and stored in cylinders, the commercial value of hydrogen in not sufficient to warrant this. The hydrogen is usually burned at the electrolysis plant to provide the thermal energy used to evaporate water from the sodium hydroxide solution."
In short..one of the major chemical processes in the US considers hydrogen to be a 'waste gas' and they burn it off
And if you care to explore the uses of sodium hydroxide (caustic soda)further..especially in the aluminum industry, you'll find it is a catalyst to produce aluminum oxide and HYDROGEN..and in fact OTHER countries are looking into this fact, as the stuff can be reused almost indefinitely in the manufacture of hydrogen, producing other useful by products in the processes.
As long as it means an end to the Oil Monopoly, and a threat to the economy of the almighty dollar...the US dollar is propped up by the fact the WORLD has to buy its oil supplies in US petro-dollars, in the event of a REAL alternative fuel becoming available..the US debt outstanding would be called in and the whole western economy dependent on the US buying power and credit worthiness would crumble overnight.
The only hope we have of ever seeing a means of transport powered by something other than gasoline, is for some major nation to rid itself of its oil dependence and begin selling it TO us..somewhere like China that has both the economic clout, and the military power available to cause the US to think twice about invading under the guise of bringing democracy to the people, or imposing embargoes..cut off their imports..we lose out on their exports..and as most Major manufacturing is now done by them..that's shooting ourselves in both feet.
Face it folks..the US military isn't going far on dry gas tanks, and they certainly are not going to allow us to have nuclear powered units in our cars either..sheeze someone might make a WMD from them!
We are all bent over the proverbial barrel..and oil one, and there's no prize for guessing where the bung hole is situated or what is aimed at it.
Back to pedal power or walking if we really want an alternative means of non-polluting transport..and even we humans produce CO2 in the process, so I guess we need to be fitted with catalytic converters to prevent this?
Bob
THE reason to use fuel cells
by randomotion - 8/18/07 11:13 AM In reply to: Hype! by poshrat11 - Fuel cells use hydrogen but do not emit the toxic waste we breath, that comes from internal combustion engines today.
2 - Fuel cells are roughly 60% efficient and that combined with small electric motors which are 96% efficient, make a fuel cell vehile 350% to 500% more efficient than an internal combustion vehicle using all hydrogen as its fuel.
We can and must start using "EFFICIENCY" as our new mantra. If you truly care about humanity's future, you will move to this view. Driving a 20 mpg SUV should not only be highly taxed, but it should become a cultural mortal sin.
THE reason to use batteries
by albizzia - 8/21/07 11:00 PM In reply to: THE reason to use fuel cells by randomotion1. An automotive sized LiIon battery pack costs much less than a automotive sized fuel cell.
2. H2 storage for an automotive fuel cell costs more than an automotive LiIon battery pack. True for carbon fiber high pressure tanks, Liquid H2 Dewar flasks, and metal hydride storage.
3. Batteries and charger are 85% efficient, fuel cell only 50%. Fuel cell and electrolyzer combined, less than 30%.
If "EFFICIENCY" is to be our new mantra, then we should drop the less efficient (and more expensive) H2 fuel cells and develop battery electrics and plug-in hybrids instead.
It is all hype !!!!!
by rdeitrich - 8/18/07 8:25 AM In reply to: Is the Chevy Volt over-hyped? by wcunning
Electric cars don't magically make power.....
the basic power for all electric cars still has carbon impact.
1)In battery cars its the energy used to make the chemicals for the battery, and lets not forget the backside of hazardous waste disposal at crash sites and end of use.
In plug in cars it is in coal or oil fired plants that make electricity plus battery concerns.
Hydrogen power is a myth taking 5 times more energy to free the hydrogen then it will ever release.
Remember that no system is 100% effecient, so every time we convert one type of energy to another ther is a loss.This makes cars that convert one type of energy into another inherently ineffecient.
Right now and for the forseable future if you want maximum efficiency with the smallest carbon print buy a small motor scooter. If you need a car the newest small diesels are clean and hyper efficient (way better in the real world than the touted prius).Other than that you are making a political statement with you purchase not a real impact.
"Free" power is available right now...
by DownInIowa - 8/18/07 8:58 AM In reply to: It is all hype !!!!! by rdeitrichLet's see... I can make a case for almost free transport available right now! My sister has a solar inter-tie system on her home in NJ that is generating Green Credits as we read. With no great modifications the home is running in the "green" - right now! Unfortunately the solar panels had to be imported from Germany, making the installed cost over $16000, but still worth it over time. She also has a Prius, which can be converted to a plug-in mostly electric commuter car which could be recharged by the excess power generated on her roof. Again too costly at present - but these things will evolve. And there is no reason to wait for better technology as an excuse for doing nothing now. That is what the oil establishment would have us do to avoid any real competition.
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