Desktops: Poll: How do you feel about the amount of software that comes on new PCs?
- 7/18/07 3:40 PM
We should get paid
by shel10 - 7/18/07 7:28 PM In reply to: Poll: How do you feel about the amount of software that comes on new PCs? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Manufacturers are getting paid to include this crapware on our computers. We should get paid everytime we accidently click on the application icons. We should also get a fee for having to spend hours attempting to remove the crapware and not being successful!!!
pre-loaded junk on new computers
by Ardy Mattox` - 7/18/07 7:36 PM In reply to: We should get paid by shel10right now I'm bummed because I had to take computer to clinic...and get wiped clean...but now I have all that junk back that I managed to get rid of once. I can't remember how to uninstall aol... and a ton of other crud. I don't have time for this!!! I'd sure like to wrap this junk around the folks' necks that sold this computer to me! Neat computer, but with a load of junk!
Not at all
by DaSpEcTeR - 7/18/07 7:32 PM In reply to: Poll: How do you feel about the amount of software that comes on new PCs? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
When you first start up a brand new computer, you don't want to get riddled with a plethora of software that the OEM places in your computer. First and foremost, they have no right to put such things into a computer that you've paid for, unless you've specified it to be there. This is one of a few reasons why I avoid buying from OEMs and just build my own PC.
Buy a Business Model
by lou24772 - 7/18/07 8:31 PM In reply to: Not at all by DaSpEcTeRI bought a Business Model HP computer with XP Professional. It came pre-loaded with nothing! I loved it. It got to put on only the programs I use & there was nothing to delete. Try the Business Models--they are worth the price. Right now, you can get a great deal on a business machine that is running XP. Everyone is running for Vista. They can keep that too. I'll think about it in about 3 more years when Microsoft works out most of the problems. Why should I buy Vista now & do the work for them?
Custom Computer or Business Model
by Retheesh - 7/18/07 9:36 PM In reply to: Buy a Business Model by lou24772Buy a Custom-built PC or a Business model PC. Lou24772 is right on the money when he said that business models DO NOT come with PREINSTALLED programs. Though, just in case, look in the description to see what software it comes with. I have been using, since the beginning, custom built PCs that I built on my own.
Recently, though, I noticed that companies like Dell are offering business model computers. (PCs, notebooks, servers, etc.) For Dell, they called them the "Vostro" line of computers. They come with NO bloatware. They have PCs, notebooks and servers available. Of course, they come with the OS 
The prices are very attractive as well. Check it out. Check out some other brand sites as well for their business computers. As always, I will recommend custom built PCs because you know what is going inside.
Branded Business Model or DYI
by cnetmessageman - 7/19/07 12:42 AM In reply to: Custom Computer or Business Model by RetheeshGot to agree too, Retheesh. Dell (Vostro 200 Slim Line) and other brand name vendors are listening at least to the "crapware" complaints (the next hurdle will be Customer Service).
For crapware free or minimal impact crapware, selecting a Business system is the way to go. There are of course, advantages and disadvantages to this choice.
ADVANTAGE: In most cases you have the option to load Windows XP instead of Windows Vista.
DISADVANTAGES: (1) A bit pricier
(2) Limited selection and customizing choices
The next option is using a Local Computer Vendor. This gives you the opportunity to specify no crapware. The key here is to be very specific about what you want on and in the system. It will probably cost you more than the branded system but you have a lot more control. Unfortunately there still are some compromises that you'll have to make because the vendor doesn't stock certain brands and has a tendency to use generic part for memory and other components.
If you have the knowledge or can persuade a knowledgeable friend or relative to build you a Custom Computer then this is your best option. It will save you some cash over using the local vendor and you can get high quality parts that you can upgrade with of-the-shelf replacements if you desire to do so later. The cost should be about the same or less that what you'd pay for that Business Class machine.
How to Handle Those Bonus Programs
by cnetmessageman - 7/19/07 9:08 AM In reply to: Branded Business Model or DYI by cnetmessagemanA number of posts have floated some intriguing ideas on how a PC Vendor could install "crapware" and still give the Customer his/her freedom of choice. To some degree Dell is attempting to do some of this in a variety of ways. The reality is, however, that once the program is installed there is no guarantee that you'll successfully remove all vestiges of it from your computer. The only guaranteed method is to reformat your disk drive and re-install the OS, drivers, and the Application YOU WANT.
We have seen various commercial attempts at doing this via Uninstaller programs but even those specifically written by the software vendor can be problematic where it either doesn't remove everything or removes somethings required by another program - even if it asks your permission before removal how would the average PC user know what to do.
There are also Registry Cleaners and other cleanup programs but they all suffer from the same weakness as the Uninstallers. So the best and safest solution is not to install the "garbage-ware" in the first place; unless specifically requested by the customer to do so. This is known as the "OPT IN" versus the "OPT OUT" approach.
With this caveat in mind, I propose a number of solutions that should offer an acceptable compromise to both PC Vendors and Customers:
(1) A computer loaded with a link on the desktop to a variety of "enhancement" applications. This offer a number of creative possibilities:
(A) STATIC: Local HTLM pages providing product info and path to the installer program(S). And the ability to delete the installer folder if desired. A startup program could kick off the ad link but would offer the ability to be disabled or removed.
(B) DYNAMIC: Link to the Computer Vendor's Webpage for downloading and installing Tuneup Tools and other "enhancement" programs by third-party vendors.
(2) All "crapware" programs would be contained on a separate disc that is included with the system. Customers can choose which ones they wish to install.
(3) Have a system restore partition which has just a basic system image (no "crapware" included). Restoring from this image eliminates "crapware" with possibly an optional install of these programs. Costs some disk space but offers an extra level of safety - a backup partition. Besides, with today's humongous disk sizes, this really shouldn't be a major issue.
(4) Provide a set of System Restore Discs that either:
(A) Do not include any "crapware"
(B) Have the "crapware" on its own separate disc
(C) Have the "crapware" as a separate install option.
Each of the above would still allow the PC Vendor to host "advertisement" for third-party software without compromising the customer's system or freedom of choice. This would, therefore, still provide a revenue stream and help subsidize the cost of the PC. Any additional costs for providing these alternatives to current practices should be minimal at most.
Of course the two extremes could still exist but each has a significant cost to the PC Vendor as well as potential customers:
(A) No "crapware" - Customer: higher cost / Vendor: less revenue
(B) Permanent or semi-permanent "crapware" - Customer: cost in time and/or money to remove unwanted programs / Vendor: (i) negative PR and possible loss of future and current sales resulting from annoyed and frustrated users (ii) possible negative PR from unstable and slow systems.
Obviously there are better and less costly options that the ones we are currently given by big name vendors.
Are you willing to pay more for less a hassling "Crapfree" computing experience.
Back in the day...
by gslrider - 7/19/07 12:27 PM In reply to: How to Handle Those Bonus Programs by cnetmessagemanI remember the days when they gave you the discs with those extra software. You chose whether to install them or not. And the only warez pre-installed were the essentials. ie. Explorer, Wordperfect (that's right, Wordperfect), Solitaire, etc.
Ah yes , the good old clutter free days
by cnetmessageman - 7/19/07 7:13 PM In reply to: Back in the day... by gslriderA lot like the situation with Cable and Satellite don't you think. Remember when these service were commercial free!! Now they are so packed full of ads, it's sometimes worse that broadcast TV. And to add insult to injury, we are required to pay these jokers to bombard us with junk. A bit like our branded PCs, but I am far less certain that we are getting any kind of benefit out of this deal.
Excellent Response Regarding Solutions
by jayhawk13 - 7/19/07 2:28 PM In reply to: How to Handle Those Bonus Programs by cnetmessagemanThis is a well thought out letter from cnetmessageman that offers a number of valid solutions. Any of them would be better than the current (but improving) situation.
As a computer technician I frequently get asked to address "slow machine" issues, and in the past era of smaller hard drives to address inadequete disk space. I usually start by going to Add/Remove programs. AOL software is probably the worst but Symantec and McAfee are close behind (do we need both, do we need either). Unfortunately most inexperience owners don't even know how to remove all of the "free trial" icons on the Desktop so they just leave the clutter there for fear of doing damage.
As for my myself, I prefer to avoid the issue by building my own systems however that's not possible with the laptops. Usually I dedicate the first few hours to removing EVERYTHING but Windows including registry entries, left over Program Files, etc. I then install my own time-tested and proven programs and make an image backup to replace the supplied recovery discs.
I understand that most people don't have the skill to do that. I especially feel for those that don't realize that most of the supplied trial programs are over-priced bloatware that are easily replaced by more efficient and less expensive alternatives.
aol and nortons
by alice_b0wie - 11/23/07 6:27 PM In reply to: Excellent Response Regarding Solutions by jayhawk13i've learned over time, never install anything aol or bought/owned by aol and anything produced by nortons/symantec. you're just asking for trouble...
Ever tried a rebuilt??
by 1_aceracer - 7/20/07 8:43 PM In reply to: Custom Computer or Business Model by RetheeshIf you don't like all the crap that comes on many new PC's and want to save some $$ you might want to try a rebuilt machine. The ones I have been getting have ONLY a copy of XP on them and nothing else.
The service I have received from the rebuilts has been JUST as good as the new ones I have used.
Crapware bogs downt he best of PCs
by comptuerwizard56 - 7/18/07 11:54 PM In reply to: Not at all by DaSpEcTeRI bought a new HP computer not to long ago with great specs (Core 2 Duo processor, 2 Gb ram, 500 GB hdd, geforce 8800 graphics, etc.) but when I first turned on the computer after agreeing to eula's and other dumb questions, it took 7 minutes to load. The second reboot still took about 5 minutes. There was so much crapware in my taskbar and startup. I was so tired of waiting for it to boot that I went out and bought a fresh OEM copy of XP Pro. After installing kaspersky antivirus and firewall and a few other load up programs, it reduced the boot up time to a mere 1 min and 32 sec!
Stop with the crap PC makers. At least put the crap on a disc.
Something to think about....
by cbrader2k - 7/19/07 7:11 AM In reply to: Crapware bogs downt he best of PCs by comptuerwizard56I do agree that some purchased computers come with a ton of useless software, but would it really justify a copy of an OEM copy of XP Pro? I suppose you would have to weigh the time you want to put into removing the unneeded items versus starting fresh.
Honestly, I would just grab a small set of utilities (e.g. CCleaner, Auslogics RegDefrag, etc.), which I would put on my machine anyway, and tear the junk off; rather than drop the cash for Win XP (on top of what I just spent for the computer).
To each their own, but it sounds like a shotgun approach to surgery.
Thoughts?
I Hate it
by mrobinsonjr - 7/19/07 9:27 AM In reply to: Not at all by DaSpEcTeRman i got my dell inspiron 1300 notebook for christmas and i had a partitioned hard drive, sonic record now and all of that other dumb stuff. i used powerquest partition magic to unpartition my hard drive. i also uninstalled musicmatch jukebox. 3 months later i eventually had to reformat my hard drive because the ****ware messed up my windows regestry plus i had a virus on my computer.
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