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Are there any decent in wall powered-sub woofers?
by r.mike.sherman - 6/28/07 11:56 AM
Featuring CNET Editor
John Falcone
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Latest questions and answers
A: that's it for this week... thanks for participating!
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 12:02 PMThanks for all of the great questions. That's it for this week, but Kent German will be here next week to chat about all things iPhone:
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-12548_102-0.html?forumID=136&threadID=254316&messageID=2526770#2526770
In the meantime, be sure to check out CNET Live, today (June 28) at 1pm PT / 4pm ET.
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Q: in-wall powered sub
by r.mike.sherman - 6/28/07 11:56 AMAre there any decent in wall powered-sub woofers?
A: they exist, but...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 12:00 PM... quite honestly, I don't have enough experience with them to recommend one brand over another. Sorry.
Q: Matching speakers in a 5.1 set-up
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:37 AMHow important is matching of speakers in a 5.1 setup. I have some old and big Marantz speakers that I would like to use front L and R speakers and smaller center and rear speakers.
Since old speakers also had "woofers" built-in, would it eliminate the need for a separate sub-woofer?
A: matching speakers is preferable
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:58 AMIt's certainly possible to mix and match different sizes and brands of speakers, but using matching loudspeakers is generally preferred. As for the woofers--if they're truly subwoofer replacements, you can get away without a dedicated sub. That's the idea, for instance, w/ this Aperion setup:
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/aperion-intimus-533-pt/4505-7868_7-31829150.html
Q: Multi-zone setup
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:48 AMIn response to the previous question on multi-zone, I have taken the signal from the home theater and used older (retired) A/V receivers to get sound in other rooms. It seems to have worked well without losing control in each room.
A: good point, but...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:55 AMUsing old receivers to amp up the sound in additional rooms works well, but another big challenge with multi-room setups is remote control access, source switching, and source control. It's fairly easy to get music throughout the house--but if you want to change CDs, switch to satellite radio, and so forth, you'll probably need an advanced RF remote system, at the very least--or you'll be stuck heading back to the main room to change things.
Q: Are there any decent rear wireless speakers?
by sbaxter - 6/28/07 11:48 AMMy wife cannot stand the sight of wires currently running under our area rug to my rear speakers! Can you recommend some decent sounding wireless rear speakers?
A: growing number of options now available
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:52 AMThe options for wireless rear speakers have really exploded in recent months. Next week, we'll be posting our review of the KEF wireless system--it works great, but it's $600. But we'll also be looking at the Rocketfish ($100) rear speaker wireless system in July. Also, almost every HTIB manufacturer now offers a proprietary add-on for their respective systems, so if you have a recent Sony/Panasonic/Samsung/etc. home theater system, you might want to check for compatible wireless accessories.
One caveat, though: these all do a great job of eliminating the front-to-back speaker wires, but need additional wiring and power in the back of the room in order to work.
Q: High End HD DVD or Blu Ray players
by jrt_msn - 6/28/07 11:38 AMAs an audiophile, and avid fan of home theater, are their any high end HD/BR players in the market such as Arcam, Ayre, Classe, that you are aware of.
A: not yet
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:49 AMHD DVD players remain limited to Toshiba, while only mass market manufacturers--Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, LG--are doing Blu-ray. I think the upscale brands are awaiting a winner in the format war before they jump in. BTW, we've reviewed almost every Blu-ray / HD DVD player released to date:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4323-6531_7-6575534.html
Q: One more on 5.1 sound from HDTV
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:40 AMI only have a standard cable with no box. And my HDTV tunes in to HDTV programming. Will the HDTV pass 5.1 in this set up?
A: yes, that should work
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:46 AMThanks for clarifying, p2p. Yes, if your TV is using its internal HD tuner, it *should* output 5.1 (Dolby Digital Surround) to an external AV receiver.
Q: Generic vs. expensive brand name digital cables
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 6/28/07 11:34 AMThis has always been a big conversation in CNET's community over inexpensive vs. hi-end expensive digital cables (ie. Monster cables).
So my question to you for the community is, when it comes to digital cables (ie. HDMI), does it really make a difference in picture and audio quality, if people were to use a $100+ cables vs. a $20 cable, as long as it is built well? After all isn't digital just digital?
Also outside of digital realm, when does it make a difference to buy quality cables?
A: generic vs. "premium" cables
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:45 AMOur rule of thumb is pretty much this: generic cables are generally fine for short audio and video runs (less than 6 feet/2 meters), but it's often worth stepping up to premium cables for longer runs (in-wall, to projectors, etc.), or if you want to future-proof your AV system beyond any reasonable doubt (for future higher bandwidth video signals, such as 60 or 120Hz 1080p video). You might want to check out a recent Monster Cable story over at Gizmodo, which adds some more detail to this debate:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hdmi-cable-battlemodo/the-truth-about-monster-cable-part-2-268788.php
Q: In-wall/ceiling Home Theatre speakers + AV amp?
by mrfrancophile - 6/28/07 11:34 AMI'm rehabbing a house in SF and want to add whole-house audio without breaking the bank. I've been thinking of a Yamaha RX-V2700 AV Amp which could give me a home theatre in the family room and multi-room capability for the rest of the house. Would that really work? Or do I need to spring for something like a Speakercraft MZC-66?
Also, for the home theatre, we'd like to go all in-wall and in-ceiling. Any favorites? If I went with low-end Polk's, would that be good enough for casual use?
A: multi-zone is challenging
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:40 AMUsing a multi-zone AV receiver (such as the Yamaha) is one way to get multi-room sound in a home, but control and amplification issues could be a real challenge. One "hack" you might consider is going with a Sonos Digital Audio system:
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-audio-receivers-dars/sonos-digital-music-system/4505-6470_7-32456945.html?tag=lst
That might help address your need to get multiple audio streams throughout the house (though you won't have total control over the non-Sonos components).
As for speakers: We've never officially tested them, but I've always heard good things about the Polk in-walls.
Q: 5.1 sound from HDTV
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:33 AMSo then how do you get 5.1 sound from HD programming with 5.1 sound - from an HDTV that is hooked to just standard cable or over-the-air HDTV signal?
A: ah, that might work...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:36 AMIf you're pulling in an OTA signal, the TV will probably send the 5.1 sound to a receiver. If the TV signal is first going to a satellite or cable box (what I thought you were originally referring to), I'd suggest going straight from the box to the receiver instead (for audio).
Q: Trends
by johnnysokko - 6/28/07 11:27 AMWhat product/solution has excited you the most this year?
A: that's a tough one
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:33 AMPersonally, I prefer the "boring" updates of existing products: new AV receivers with better HDMI and Dolby/DTS lossless decoding support, cheaper and better large-screen TVs.
Q: TV's don't pass surround sound very well
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:23 AMYou just mentioned in your answer that "TV's digital audio outputs don't always pass surround signals very well, so you might lose the surround bitstream w/o a direct connection from source to HTIB"
Wow - I was counting on it!
Is this also true for LCD HDTVs?
Does this apply to matrix surrond or discrete channels like in DolbyDigital 5.1?
A: limited experience
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:28 AMUnfortunately, we don't routinely test this issue on the TVs we look at, since we assume folks will be using an AV receiver for the switching tasks. But I know my brother's 40-inch Samsung LCD TV couldn't take the surround bitstream (from HDMI) and pass it to the receiver (via optical out). So, instead, he ended up with the Dolby Digital getting dumbed down to stereo, then matrixed back up to Dolby Pro Logic II. Annoying, to say the least.
Q: Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) Specs
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:18 AMGenerally, A/V receivers mention THD but HTIB units don't. Is their THD so bad they hide it?
I find that in otherwise similar units, the prices jump sharply for THD of less than 0.1%.
So, how important is THD spec and what is a good number to look for an average listener?
A: specs can be misleading
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:25 AMWhile lower THD is better, it's very hard to verify many of those manufacturer claims. A real-world listener will very often not be able to tell the difference. If you're a true audiophile, I'd definitely recommend going w/ a full AV receiver and dedicated speakers over an HTIB, though--as a rule, AV receivers are going to deliver better sound quality overall than all-in-one home theater units, which are geared towards convenience, design, and ease of use.
Q: Encoding
by johnnysokko - 6/28/07 11:18 AMWhat is your preference for audio encoding, (format and bit rate)?
A: I compromised on 192k MP3s...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:21 AM... which delivered better than average quality without sucking up too much of my disk space. In a perfect world, I'd love to go lossless (FLAC), but I prefer the guaranteed compatibility that you get with true MP3s.
Q: Vmoda bass freq
by blackbird12435 - 6/28/07 11:15 AMI know you do alot with home theater, but I would like you to help me with on the go, as it still has to do with Audio. Is the Bass freq a good choice? Cnet gave it a Editors choice, but what about the quality of the cables.What is your opinion on it. Is Noise canceling good?
A: haven't tried them myself, but...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:19 AM... I suspect they fall into the category of "good for the money" (only $40 or less). Personally, I prefer less bass, so I'd probably steer clear--just a personal preference issue. I'm also leery of noise cancelling headphones, because the extra pressure tends to hurt my ears (again, a personal preference).
Q: HTPC
by johnnysokko - 6/28/07 11:13 AMDo you see a future in the Home Theather PC, it doesn't seem to have found an audience?
A: limited to enthusiasts for now
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:16 AMHTPCs have a lot to offer for advanced users, but they still have a setup and learning curve that frustrates many, especially in the living room. Also, until the CableCard issues get sorted out, I think most people will gravitate towards dedicated components instead (AV receivers, disc players, game consoles, Apple TV, etc.) rather than PCs.
Q: What kind of sound system should I get?
by EatMoreBread - 6/28/07 11:10 AMI'm looking for a cheap 5.1 setup, and it looks like I'm leaning towards a HTIB system. I've done some research and it seems like all you can get are these HTIB's with a million different inputs. All I want it to do is output my PS3/Blu-Ray/PS2/Gamecube, while maintaining the Hi-Def signal. Since my TV is a Sony Bravia KDL42XBR2, and has an audio output, would it work to simply run an audio output from my TV (which has it) into a cheap HTIB system? I suppose I'm not so much into fidelity as I am into being immersed in the game/movie.
A: consider the new JVC
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:14 AMThis newly announced JVC system has great connectivity, and it's only $300. We'll have a full review in July. Your plan would work, but the TV's digital audio outputs don't always pass surround signals very well, so you might lose the surround bitstream w/o a direct connection from source to HTIB.
Q: Upconversion on Onkyo Receivers
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:10 AMSo why the difference in terms describing SR605 and SR705 and up? Is it just a typo or a real difference?
Thanks.
A: short answer: 705 has 3 HDMI inputs
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:12 AMThat and THX certification--not much else is different.
Q: Onkyo vs Denon
by grimlah - 6/28/07 11:09 AMDo you see any compelling reasons to go with a Denon 4308 over the Onkyo 905?
A: not sure yet
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:10 AMThe Denon 4308 hasn't officially been announced yet, although it's almost certain to be announced in July. Until we get real specs, though, we can't make a judgment on a comparison.
Q: Upconversion in Onkyo Receivers
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:08 AMWil upconversion work on ALL analog video inputs? (S-Video and Composite Video)
A: yes
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:09 AMThe 605 can convert any analog (composite/S-video) input to HDMI output. It can also deinterlace those signals (convert 480i to 480p output via HDMI).
Q: Upconvers in Onkyo SR605 and 705
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:06 AMIn your review of Onkyo receiver 2007 line-up, you mention "2 HDMI 1.3a
inputs, with HDMI conversion of analog video" for for TX-SR605 but you
describe "3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion" for other higher
models such as TX-SR705. (1) Is there a difference between just "conversion"
and "upconversion" between these models? (2) Upconversion is what
resolutions? Thanks.
A: analog to digital conversion
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:07 AMGood question. On those models, it's basically just analog to digital video conversion--the picture from 480i is not being upscaled to HD resolutions. BTW, the 605 review is coming next week.
Q: Component cables on wii.
by blackbird12435 - 6/28/07 11:04 AMHey. I have a SDTV with component inputs. I am not sure if it supports 480p. Should I buy the cables, and is the improvement of sound and picture worth it?
A: SDTV, EDTV, HDTV...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:06 AMIf it wasn't billed as an EDTV (enhanced definition), it probably can't support 480p. Using component inputs at 480i could still give you a better picture than S-video, especially on next-gen game consoles and DVD.
Q: Component cables on wii.
by blackbird12435 - 6/28/07 11:04 AMHey. I have a SDTV with component inputs. I am not sure if it supports 480p. Should I buy the cables, and is the improvement of sound and picture worth it?
A: SDTV, EDTV, HDTV...
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:06 AMIf it wasn't billed as an EDTV (enhanced definition), it probably can't support 480p. Using component inputs at 480i could still give you a better picture than S-video, especially on next-gen game consoles and DVD.
Q: Blu-ray Complimentary Audio
by dsirek - 6/28/07 11:02 AMI have a Playstation 3, the Blu-Ray movies look great, but the sound isn't quite what I think it could be. I have a Sony Surround System with 5.1 Dolby, what would you suggest for audio setup or system that would allow me get the most out of Blu-Ray without forcing me into a life of crime (and possible male prostitution) to pay for it?
A: Blu-ray audio
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 11:04 AMThe PS3's Blu-ray audio capabilities still aren't fully formed (Sony tweaks it with firmware upgrades), but you should be able to get uncompressed PCM audio via HDMI--try the audio setup menu. (And I'm assuming you have an HDMI AV receiver.)
A: welcome, everyone
by jpfalcone - 6/28/07 10:56 AMJohn Falcone here, ready to answer all of your home audio and home theater questions for the next hour. Thanks for joining us. Fire away!
Incoming questions
in-wall powered sub
Multi-zone setup
In response to the previous question on multi-zone, I have taken the signal from the home theater and used older (retired) A/V receivers to get sound in other rooms. It seems to have worked well without losing control in each room.
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:48 AM
Are there any decent rear wireless speakers?
My wife cannot stand the sight of wires currently running under our area rug to my rear speakers! Can you recommend some decent sounding wireless rear speakers?
by sbaxter - 6/28/07 11:48 AM
One more on 5.1 sound from HDTV
I only have a standard cable with no box. And my HDTV tunes in to HDTV programming. Will the HDTV pass 5.1 in this set up?
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:40 AM
High End HD DVD or Blu Ray players
As an audiophile, and avid fan of home theater, are their any high end HD/BR players in the market such as Arcam, Ayre, Classe, that you are aware of.
by jrt_msn - 6/28/07 11:38 AM
Matching speakers in a 5.1 set-up
How important is matching of speakers in a 5.1 setup. I have some old and big Marantz speakers that I would like to use front L and R speakers and smaller center and rear speakers.
Since old speakers also had "woofers" built-in, would it eliminate the need for a separate sub-woofer?
Since old speakers also had "woofers" built-in, would it eliminate the need for a separate sub-woofer?
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:37 AM
In-wall/ceiling Home Theatre speakers + AV amp?
I'm rehabbing a house in SF and want to add whole-house audio without breaking the bank. I've been thinking of a Yamaha RX-V2700 AV Amp which could give me a home theatre in the family room and multi-room capability for the rest of the house. Would that really work? Or do I need to spring for something like a Speakercraft MZC-66?
Also, for the home theatre, we'd like to go all in-wall and in-ceiling. Any favorites? If I went with low-end Polk's, would that be good enough for casual use?
Also, for the home theatre, we'd like to go all in-wall and in-ceiling. Any favorites? If I went with low-end Polk's, would that be good enough for casual use?
by mrfrancophile - 6/28/07 11:34 AM
Generic vs. expensive brand name digital cables
This has always been a big conversation in CNET's community over inexpensive vs. hi-end expensive digital cables (ie. Monster cables).
So my question to you for the community is, when it comes to digital cables (ie. HDMI), does it really make a difference in picture and audio quality, if people were to use a $100+ cables vs. a $20 cable, as long as it is built well? After all isn't digital just digital?
Also outside of digital realm, when does it make a difference to buy quality cables?
So my question to you for the community is, when it comes to digital cables (ie. HDMI), does it really make a difference in picture and audio quality, if people were to use a $100+ cables vs. a $20 cable, as long as it is built well? After all isn't digital just digital?
Also outside of digital realm, when does it make a difference to buy quality cables?
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 6/28/07 11:34 AM
5.1 sound from HDTV
So then how do you get 5.1 sound from HD programming with 5.1 sound - from an HDTV that is hooked to just standard cable or over-the-air HDTV signal?
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:33 AM
Trends
What product/solution has excited you the most this year?
by johnnysokko - 6/28/07 11:27 AM
Speakers for Mac
The iMac G5's speakers are pitifully weak. What's your suggestion on a high quality speaker (works with Macs) that lasts long and doesn't hurt the wallet?
by Alegoo92 - 6/28/07 11:25 AM
TV's don't pass surround sound very well
You just mentioned in your answer that "TV's digital audio outputs don't always pass surround signals very well, so you might lose the surround bitstream w/o a direct connection from source to HTIB"
Wow - I was counting on it!
Is this also true for LCD HDTVs?
Does this apply to matrix surrond or discrete channels like in DolbyDigital 5.1?
Wow - I was counting on it!
Is this also true for LCD HDTVs?
Does this apply to matrix surrond or discrete channels like in DolbyDigital 5.1?
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:23 AM
Encoding
What is your preference for audio encoding, (format and bit rate)?
by johnnysokko - 6/28/07 11:18 AM
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) Specs
Generally, A/V receivers mention THD but HTIB units don't. Is their THD so bad they hide it?
I find that in otherwise similar units, the prices jump sharply for THD of less than 0.1%.
So, how important is THD spec and what is a good number to look for an average listener?
I find that in otherwise similar units, the prices jump sharply for THD of less than 0.1%.
So, how important is THD spec and what is a good number to look for an average listener?
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:18 AM
Vmoda bass freq
I know you do alot with home theater, but I would like you to help me with on the go, as it still has to do with Audio. Is the Bass freq a good choice? Cnet gave it a Editors choice, but what about the quality of the cables.What is your opinion on it. Is Noise canceling good?
by blackbird12435 - 6/28/07 11:15 AM
HTPC
Do you see a future in the Home Theather PC, it doesn't seem to have found an audience?
by johnnysokko - 6/28/07 11:13 AM
in-wall sub
I have Boston ceiling mount fronts and rear chanel speakers, is there an inwall sub that mathes the quality of a stand alone sub? If so, any suggestions, from what i have heard you have to do a lot of work within the wall with framing? Is this the case?
by r.mike.sherman - 6/28/07 11:11 AM
Upconversion on Onkyo Receivers
So why the difference in terms describing SR605 and SR705 and up? Is it just a typo or a real difference?
Thanks.
Thanks.
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:10 AM
What kind of sound system should I get?
I'm looking for a cheap 5.1 setup, and it looks like I'm leaning towards a HTIB system. I've done some research and it seems like all you can get are these HTIB's with a million different inputs. All I want it to do is output my PS3/Blu-Ray/PS2/Gamecube, while maintaining the Hi-Def signal. Since my TV is a Sony Bravia KDL42XBR2, and has an audio output, would it work to simply run an audio output from my TV (which has it) into a cheap HTIB system? I suppose I'm not so much into fidelity as I am into being immersed in the game/movie.
by EatMoreBread - 6/28/07 11:10 AM
Onkyo vs Denon
Do you see any compelling reasons to go with a Denon 4308 over the Onkyo 905?
by grimlah - 6/28/07 11:09 AM
Upconversion in Onkyo Receivers
Wil upconversion work on ALL analog video inputs? (S-Video and Composite Video)
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:08 AM
Upconvers in Onkyo SR605 and 705
In your review of Onkyo receiver 2007 line-up, you mention "2 HDMI 1.3a
inputs, with HDMI conversion of analog video" for for TX-SR605 but you
describe "3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion" for other higher
models such as TX-SR705. (1) Is there a difference between just "conversion"
and "upconversion" between these models? (2) Upconversion is what
resolutions? Thanks.
inputs, with HDMI conversion of analog video" for for TX-SR605 but you
describe "3 HDMI 1.3a inputs, with HDMI upconversion" for other higher
models such as TX-SR705. (1) Is there a difference between just "conversion"
and "upconversion" between these models? (2) Upconversion is what
resolutions? Thanks.
by p2pvoice - 6/28/07 11:06 AM
Component cables on wii.
Hey. I have a SDTV with component inputs. I am not sure if it supports 480p. Should I buy the cables, and is the improvement of sound and picture worth it?
by blackbird12435 - 6/28/07 11:04 AM
Blu-ray Complimentary Audio
I have a Playstation 3, the Blu-Ray movies look great, but the sound isn't quite what I think it could be. I have a Sony Surround System with 5.1 Dolby, what would you suggest for audio setup or system that would allow me get the most out of Blu-Ray without forcing me into a life of crime (and possible male prostitution) to pay for it?
by dsirek - 6/28/07 11:02 AM
John Falcone, home theater editor Live!
Ask the Editors Live! Home audio live chat event with CNET senior editor John Falcone starts Thursday June 28th at 11 a.m. to noon PT / 2 p.m to 3 p.m ET. Where John will be answering your home audio questions ranging from home theater systems to AV receivers to surround sound speakers, and everything in between.
So stay tune and don't miss out!
So stay tune and don't miss out!
by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 8/21/07 3:23 PM
