Car Tech: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car?
- 6/20/07 3:42 PM
American What???
by Alan Gilbertson - 6/21/07 4:23 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Lee you are kidding right?
First of all most readers don't have a clue on truth about this subject because they weren't born yet. But for the rest We all know that the American Auto makers lost the edge in the 70's with the introduction of Honda, Toyota, and Subaru. Prior to the 70's we had other foreign autos here in the States as Fiat, Porsche, and Austin Healey, but American cars still ranked number 1 Until yep you got it "The Japanese Take Over!" The Japanese took John Q Publics concerns of price, economy and saftey and built them into their automobiles Where as the American top 3 were only concerned about Sales. People who are foolish enough to believe American Cars are still No.1 are still living in the 60's and 70's Where Pony cars and Rat motors and American Muscle were king of the strip. The 70's so long ago for most but so resent for the rest.
Sign me in as old enough to remember, to old to participate and wise enough to know my limitations
japans cars, but they're assembled here in the US
by dragonbiker - 6/21/07 4:46 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My wife and I bought a 1988 Toyota Camry NEW in 1988, and when we just sold it to a young fellow we have watched grow up, the car is STILL running strong with about 150,000 miles on it.
He LOVES this car, his parents are happy for him, and we replced it with TWO identical 1992 Camrys, BOTH with slightly over 115,000 miles on them EACH!!
The last car a FORD Escort, blew a head gasket, and was repaired at a cost of over 600.00 in 1988, two weeks later, the timing belt broke, negating the head gasket repair, AND it needed a water pump, aAND timing belt AND yet another head gasket with ONLY 65,000 MILES ON IT!!!!
Besides, Toyota has plants here in the US, so while the COMPANY may be Asian, they are creating US JOBS!!!
I have talked with MASTER technicians for Chrysler Motors, and they admit that their cars are some of the WORST cars on the road.
Look in ANY large parking lot, how many Camrys, Accords, and other imports are there????
And I do NOT mean NEW ones.....
Australia has got to be among the best value cars
by Mr.RumPig - 6/21/07 4:58 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
In the past few years research and development and Ford and (General Motors)Holden have been up there with the best in the world. Take the new VE Commodore for example and it's HSV derivatives. These are traditional front-engine, rear wheel drive cars that offer sophistication, performance, handling, quality and safety that motoring journalists are describing as not far behind that of BMW, Mercedes etc yet they cost less than one third of the price. There are plenty of cars that were once imported into Australia, that simply didn't sell because they weren't robust enough to endure Australias environment and roads, which are pretty harsh on cars. For outright durability I don't think there's a much better family sedan than a Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon, I know of Falcons with nearly one million kilometers on the clock still running the original engine, it's not that uncommon.
We've not been exporting for long so I guess our reputation as a player on the global car market has yet to be established. But how many of you have heard of a Ford Falcon GTHO Phase III??? For those that haven't, it's an Australian 4 door sedan that was released in 1971, and remained the worlds fastest four door production sedan for several years. I believe that tile now belongs to a Mercedes Benz, but how expensive is it?!
My loyalties are American But
by ppollack - 6/21/07 4:59 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
In the service of My country I have lived for Six Years in Germnay and Their products are superior in design and engineering over every other countries. But My vehicle will always be American. I will never screw up and buy a foriegn car ever again, too much to repair, not enough room, not enough horsepower, not enough. but if I could afford a Mercedes I would do it in a heart beat. I rode in an mercedes that was 35 Years old and it still smelled new and ran like new. Enough said.
Cars on the internet
by flrhcarr - 6/21/07 5:55 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I agree, why is it a thread? Why don't we rate suppliers, retailers & products in general? We should help one another steer clear of uncaring companies & such.
But here are my two cents, because I'm sure that there is a reason for this someplace. That is, other than providing a place for flame wars.
If a vehicle brand worked for you, it was great, if it didn't it sucked.
What you consider a good value is the key. I enjoy the longevity of Japenese vehicles, but detest the tin doors shutting, the ultra thin seats & a few other things. I've owned nearly everyone's vehicle.
I enjoy the life of a Japer, as much as I love the sound of an American eight's big cube, which isn't to say that listening to my Alfa's intake & exhaust wasn't sweet music, because it was.
The Ferrari sounded great, but was in the shop much more than the Fiat, which was in there less than the Triumph.
Volvo still makes the best rollcaged car. So how do you drive your vehicle?
I saw a comparison between some monster suv's & a Rover. "Seems the Rover can't quite get up to speeed against the others. " Was the spiel, but I wouldn't take a Lincoln four wheeling, let alone in the jungle.
The car buying populace is fickle. As is the market in general. Linux, Mac or Windows? Than somoene will ask about Sun.
So what if they're using more plastic, we should be concerned with other methods of energy anyhow. Which platic being the keyed factor. We'll all think plastic is safe, than we get electric cars. Save the petroleum to make plastic.
Final note is this. In & around 1978 someone hit me on the right side of a one lane road. He was doing 50, I was doing 35. I was driving my 1966 Plymouth Fury 3 he was driving a 1972/4 Plymouth Duster.
He hit my bumper (as he was trying to pass). It tore his door to the tailights, made an evil bend in my bumper.
His car was totalled, I drove up to the corner of my house & hit the accelerator till the bumper went (nearly) in place. I drove to work the next day, he called in.
It's what is asked for at the era. If he hit me in a Datsun B-210, I'd proly be toast. Side note. I replaced my OEM battery in `78 five times. Lasted pretty well from`66 to `78, but you couldn't buy that brand anymore. No wonder, they lasted too long.
But now I sit here on the CNET forum, talking about cars, & wondering why PNY can't ship me a working stick of RAM, & why Egghead didn't want to comp it in the first, one day of delivery. I'm also wondering about that rebate that expired four months ago in February, but this is a car thread.
So I will say buy a Peugout. They used to make saw blades, that's close enough to cars. As is cars to computer devices.
Fred
I think Germans makes the best cars.
by polusa14 - 6/21/07 6:04 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Well not to be favoring something or anything, the Japanese automakers use to copy German vehicle design like Lexus. Also the japenese cars break down many times like Honda and Acura. These cars don't last long and have engine problems. The German Vehicles like BMW and Mercedes make top of the line cars and last the longest. I have an uncle that owns a Mercedes and kept it in top shape and it lasted for more than 750 000 KM. Thats allot of mileage for a car like that. It was never repaired for anything and is still running like a bird. That diesel wont die. Its 29 years old, a 300D. I know people who have Hondas for more than 10 years and want to change there car. Germans make much better looking cars and last much longer. Better parts better life span. The Japenese cars are loaded with so much garbage, no wonder its so popular and cheap. Mercedes are now making cars for the lower class people that is affordable and offers great technology and mileage.
Germans.. Hands DOWN..
by buddhak0n - 6/21/07 7:51 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sorry I'm nearing that wonderful age of 40 and I've also worked a Very Large portion of that time in the Auto Industry both at the Dealership/ Reconditioning and F&I Levels....
Without a Doubt in my mind the best manufactured cars on the Planet are German. I did do a lot of business with American Honda and can truly back their product 150%... I've never had a Honda I didn't love.. But when you drive a Benz or a Jetta or a BMW .. there's simply a difference... My 2003 325i drives as tight as the day I bought it 4 years ago.... I've had SL500's that after 8 years are much more stable, better built and less repair needed cars than 3 month old Camry's....
Sorry I know they WACK ya over the head on the numbers .. and yeah they aren't for everyone due to their ridiculous COST but without a doubt you are not simply paying for status....
A BMW 745 is a TANK... there's nothing that Japanese automakers manufacture that's even in the same "atmosphere".
Impossible to say
by kyler - 6/21/07 9:40 PM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
It's nearly impossible to answer this with a legitimate reason.
Most foreign auto makers are owned, and built by, other auto makers - from a different country.
-Opel, which is european, is owned my GM, which is american
-Volvo & Saab, which are swedish, are owned by ford & GM, which are american
-Chrysler, which is American, is/WAS owned by mercedes, which is European - (or they owned each other equally, i forget)
-Daewoo which is Korean, is owned by GM, which is American
need I go on?
The best makers, by your standards, are probably automakers subsidized by another automaker of the same country. like BMW owning SMART & Rolls Royce - all of which are european, Mercedes owning Maybach - both are european, Honda owning Acura - japanese, Toyota owning Lexus - japanese, etc...
But then you could go on and talk about the larger subsidiaries - like GM, which makes a lot of american cars, and just as many european cars, so its more diverse.
You can even look at the automaker before they were bought over. Volvo for instance use to be known for being extremely solid cars, and uniquely designed, now theyre just like everyother car because of Ford - same goes for Saab; GM completely ruined Saab's reputation. So if you really want to get technical, you can talk about what automakers were like back in the day.
It all depends on how you look at it.
whoops
by kyler - 6/21/07 9:42 PM In reply to: Impossible to say by kylersorry, i mean MERCEDES owning smart, not BMW
i say the koreans do
by arondan - 6/22/07 3:06 AM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I say the Koreans have the leg up, right now, because they have made the most gain in public confidence, initial quality, and sales volume, in contrast to their competitors.As their rise to this level has not been meteoric, but stable, consistent and growing. Most of others have been falling back, although not for the same reasons.Among the Japanese, Toyota has had some setbacks, most recently with the stumbling launch of their Tundra full-size pickup. Toyota realized they had to offer rebates to get the target buyers interested as the Tundra's price point was $1,800 to $3,300 higher than the immediate competition, despite differences in content packaging. Embarassing engine failures due to oil starvation also contributed to their problems of late.Nissan, Subaru, Mazda and Suzuki have made modest gains in market share, principally due to strides in model diversity and increases in quality. Mitsubishi and Isuzu have had incredible losses in sales volume, market share, especially Izusu. They now offer only one product, a thinly disguised version of the Chevrolet Colorado pickup, which has mediocre appeal according to several consumer surveys.As for the Europeans,Mercedes-Benz, which until a few years ago, was the darling of the consumer surveys, has fallen on bad times due some embarassing quality issues steming from, in my opinion, packing too much unwanted technology into their cars. The German carmakers, of late, have been condensing the myriad of functions available in their cars into unnecessary complicated driver interfaces, such as BMW's I-Drive. Such devices meant to improve driver operation, often frustrate even the most patient among us. Just to do simple tasks such as changing the temperature of the climate control, or getting your favorite radio station can waste unnecessary minutes poring over seemimgly endless pages in the drivers manuals.Volkswagen continues to struggle in America, despite much marketing success in Europe.Jaguar, with the exception of its X-Type, sells well within its rather small demographic. They should not try to sell smaller cars here,perhaps they should modernize the S-Type and just drop the the X-Type, which has had quality issues ever since is was first offered in the U. S.
Of course, on the horizon are cars to be offered by the Chinese promising great value for their size and content. Time will tell. And the there's Mahindra, India's medium duty truck and tractor maker who will be selling a mid-sized pickup and a SUV here next year, both well-equipped and starting around $22K. Looks like our domestic car companies have even more headaches in store for them.
AVERAGE GERMAN-MADE CARS ARE BETTER
by pablomdb - 6/22/07 7:22 AM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First, answer this question implies making some previous statements: This poll is about quality, NOT quality versus price. If you just evaluate quality, as a result of number of quality tests along the process of making and delivering a car to the consumer, german made cars are better, but at expense of ridiculous prices. At least, for the average consumer here in argentina, where I live.-
If we speak in terms of quality-price, japanese cars are unmatchable.-
Ford cars that are sold here, fail with a frequency absolutely unacceptable, specially transmission, and engine.- GM cars, are just a little bit better.- But in average, reliability and performance of japanese made cars, comparing cars of similar price, can't be beaten.- A ford fiesta, has the same price as the new suzuki Swift, and the suzuki is very far better in every ways.-
Oil companies here use toyota, and only particular users still buy Ford Rangers, because of being Ford fundamentalists, and are continuosly complaining in forums about malfunctions just after the 30.000 miles guarantee expire.-
That's been an opinion of a guy from south america, who knows a lot more than the average people about cars, and I hope nobody feels offended.
No one ever gave India a thought....
by aaasolanki - 6/23/07 12:26 AM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My first instinct was to vote for Japan (because their cars are super- refined, build to last and score high on quality). But, after taking into consideration the "average consumer", I knew that I needn't look further than my home.
Its India for me...
Where else can U get a sparkling new, roll-caged, 5 seater car giving 18km/litre, 2 year warranty and servicing (U do the math for miles/gallon) for as low 5000 US$ (I am talking about a car called Maruti Suzuki Alto - 800cc) ?
And, if things go a sper the plan, an Indian company with a global view, named Tata Motors, will roll-out a 5 seater small car by end-2008 for as low as 2500 US$...Something that Renault & Nissan are looking upto...
Beat that...!!!
(U may argue that its favortism, but somewhere there's logic involved as well).
Thanks,
Abhishek, Mumbai,India.
German
by pawlita - 6/23/07 5:23 AM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
If I take several criteria like performance, comfort, security, design, fuel consumption, cost and quality into account, presently the best mix are German cars, followed by Japanese. For me Japan is not #1 due to several facts: in the last year the quality of Japanese cars has dropped while the quality of German cars has improved according to a recent investigation, the hybrid technology is important but will only be an intermediate solution, and the design is either boring or copied.
Generally, the competition is very tough. Presently you can buy a lot of good cars from different countries. The differences have become smaller.
I wonder which vendor from which country will for the first time offer the real break-through in the fuel-saving/low emission problem.
Peter
Two Major Reasons
by RebelwoaCl00 - 6/23/07 6:45 AM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
1) Japan can build better cars, even in the U.S., due to superior management. The workers are the same, the suppliers similar, etc., but American management relies on yesterday's patterns for success.
2) Every Japanese car costs 1,500 to $2,500 less to produce than American-made "equivalents" because of lower overhead, read: Retirement obligations.
Japanese, for sure.
by Swartswaan - 6/23/07 10:46 AM In reply to: Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
They pay attention to what they do. It speaks volumes for their national culture in the sense that they practice order and neatness daily. It is common knowledge here in South Africa that their factories are managed through a specific philosophy of actively involving the people on the floor to ensure quality and improvement.
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