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Car Tech: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars?
- 6/6/07 1:57 PM
Begining to think I was the only one
by colin1935 - 6/23/07 3:06 PM In reply to: Plastic Cars & The Future (by an automotive engineer) by bchazIve been answering a number of letters as we in the UK have had fibreglass vehicles and parts of, for over 50 years . One peice lorry cabs double deck buses one peice roofs plus all fiberglass double deck buses fronts,rears corner panels fewer with side panels..
One scribe was so scared I suggested never to visit the UK as the Aircraft ,taxis ,buses or train travel will all have fibreglass to a lesser or greater degree..If you want to see Midland Red (BMMO)buses being moulded from 50 years ago I have photographs I can send you my Email is
colin1935@hotmail.com
plastic cars
by blizotte - 6/21/07 11:13 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
no I would not buy a plastic car/truck. there are just too many accidents on the roads today that result in these being crunched into little wads of nothingness while my truck of steel remains whole and solid when hit. I also can see above traffic and can stay out of the way of the crazy drivers and potential accidents. I drive an F250 diesel that uses the new cleaner fuel and I get very good mileage even in the city. It has some plastic on it but not where it really matters in an accident. I feel safe and sound driving it especially in traffic with all of those little plastic cars whizzing in and out of the many lanes like they were the only thing on the road. If we could get the crazy drivers off of the road, it wouldn't matter what the cars were made of.
Would I buy a plastic Car?
by wehrmacher - 6/21/07 11:14 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
You bet. In a second!
I have a 1993 Saturn SC2 and apart from the fact that is carresses me like a beautiful woman when I sit in it, it has remained free from rust and still shines; looking like a beautiful woman.
From what I understand, that car and others in that series have excellent crash protection figures.
I live in Minneapolis. Metal cars don't last that that.
I hope my plastic car lasts for ever.
Plastic Cars
by montyrk - 6/21/07 11:33 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I'll wait until the jury's in before I believe in the durability of plastic cars. How ever I have one major concern. How fast and easily do they burn?? Also one small question, how do they trip "On demand" traffic lights?
MK
On Demand traffic lights
by bchaz - 6/21/07 1:03 PM In reply to: Plastic Cars by montyrkThe lights are tripped by the metallic wheel disrupting a magnetic field. Depending on where the loops are positioned under the pavement, you could do it with the engine block or transmission as well.
Monty Burns On Demand Traffic Lights powered by Ebay.
by R. Proffitt
- 6/21/07 1:07 PM
In reply to: On Demand traffic lights by bchaz
For those that must get the green light first. A clicker that you can pay a buck on each click to get the green light to stay on for you. Ebay powered...
Bob
Major plastic body parts can save big on Insurance rates
by norm3v - 6/21/07 12:02 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Easily replaceable body parts have the potential of providing big savings in auto repair costs after minor accidents! Not having to worry that a minor parking dingy will break the family budget would be a very strong plus!
savings
by wcoffey81 - 6/22/07 6:54 AM In reply to: Major plastic body parts can save big on Insurance rates by norm3vthe repair/replacement cost are nearly identical between metal and plastic. the only time this is untrue is with very minor damage that the plastic can rebound from and not dent.
Nice try
by Andy77e - 6/24/07 6:13 PM In reply to: Major plastic body parts can save big on Insurance rates by norm3vMy friend at the dealership who does body work, says otherwise. Plastic is more expensive to produce and since they tend to damage more easy in even the most minor of hits, the demand is higher, thus more expensive.
??
by wcoffey81 - 6/25/07 7:49 AM In reply to: Nice try by Andy77ei was speaking in general terms without going into the details of what type of plastic is used in the panel and where it's at on the vehicle. he is absolutly correct in some situations.
plastic is no more expensive to produce than steel if it is used on a wider basis. running an entire assembly plant just to make the door skins for a single model is just too expensive.
for repair costs... whack my fiero door with a ax and do the same thing to a sunfire, both will need a door skin.
i order the fiero panel and send it to the paint shop, they prep it and cut it in and maybe even apply the first coats of color to the outside, a bodyman then puts the new panel on the door using a few basic hand tools and sends the whole car back to the paint shop for blending and clearing
i order a door skin for the sunfire, a bodyman removes the door, grinds and chisels the old skin off, cleans up and repairs the door frame, uses a hammer and dolly to fold the new skin onto the frame, puts the door on the car, checks for fit, tack welds it in place, removes the door, now he repairs the damage the hammer and dolly did to the face of the door, then sends the door to the paintshop, they prep it and prime all of the damaged areas, seam seal the folded lip, and cut it in, then the door heads back to the bodyshop for final fit-up and corrosion protection and after all of that the whole car goes back to the paintshop for color and clear
if you have to guess which repair is more money???
now that situation can be reversed for bonded in place plastic panels.
for parking lot damage the plastic panel is cheaper because it can rebound. for heavier damage the metal panel will dent and the plastic panel may break and it is cheaper to bump/repair than to replace
What are the pros and cons of plastic cars?
by hikergirl - 6/21/07 12:41 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I drive an almost 11-year old Saturn coupe. It has polymer panels, which make it very reasonable to insure. I have seen a Saturn sedan hit at 45mph between the left front quarter panel and door. The Saturn sedan shed that collision like a duck's feathers shed water. Not a bit of damage - paint included. I'm all for less expensive insurance with safety installed internally. Of course, Saturn stopped using polymer panels some time ago. Go figure.
Pros and cons of plastic cars
by dubbycop - 6/21/07 12:45 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Years ago my Mother was given a vacuum cleaner. It was made with metal and it is still around (My sister is 69 years old to give you an idea of how long it has survived.) I bought the same make only it was made with plastic parts. I do not live in Arizona and it never saw sunlight while I had it - a whole five years before the plastic dried out and started falling apart. And there was no easy fix so now it is trash. So I have to ask the same question that phrelin asked. Does it dry out in the hot Arizona sun or fall apart like safety glass in Calgary's 40F below winter's?
I frankly do not trust manufacturers to consider where and what we would do with them once they were no longer useful. So far they haven't done anything that makes me feel like they are interested in what the world will be like for our grandchildren. Already there are a large number of people world wide living and dying of pollution related diseases and conditions.
Lighter is good? Maybe if I want to become airborne but then when I want that, I buy a plane ticket, not a car.
My short term thinking is that drivers would have to have a major attitude change that would turn them into good, defensive and safe drivers. There are way too many people out there living for the 'Me, Myself and I' in their lives for me to feel very safe on the road now. For the young people in your audience, road rage is a fairly new term and it is found in people who's parents did not teach them respect for others or anger control. I would not suggest holding your breath for that change to happen any day soon!
From where I sit, the cons outweigh the pros and the odds are way off the wall.
Are you kidding?
by bchaz - 6/21/07 1:14 PM In reply to: Pros and cons of plastic cars by dubbycopBe realistic here. You're talking about a vaccuum cleaner for Pete's sake. The plastic used to mold it is completely different from what you would use for an automotive application. The UV package protecting the colorant is different, plasticizers (chemical that prevents brittleness) are different... The whole additive package is different. And whether our not you THINK it saw sunlight, it did see more intense UV radiation and it did live in a prolonged heat cycle. Aside from that, the SCIENCE of plastic is not what it was in 1980. There was very little science to plastic materials until then. Now, it's a totally different ballgame. And yes, any automotive plastic is tested in conditions more severe than Arizona's summer or Calgary's winter. It's called Life Cycle Testing and a car can not go into prodcution for sale to the public without passing this testing and a formal submission to the NHTSA.
Manufacturers, by law, do have to be concerned with their products end of life use - 90% of a car MUST be recycleable by Federal Mandate. People dying of pollution related diseases and conditions has no bearing on this discussion so I'm not sure I get your point here.
I don't get the airborne comment either. That has to do with fluid dynamics and no automaker would allow a design causing lift to be produced. The liability for design is enormous.
From most of your comments, you sound like a close-minded fuddy-duddy but hey, I could be wrong!
No, bchaz, I'm not kidding
by dubbycop - 6/22/07 7:10 AM In reply to: Are you kidding? by bchazComment: From most of your comments, you sound like a close-minded fuddy-duddy but hey, I could be wrong!
Reply: Not closed minded at all and definitely not a fuddy-duddy but I tend to think you must be young, wear rose coloured glasses and read only the sports pages and the comics in the newspaper.
Comment: Be realistic here. You're talking about a vaccuum cleaner for Pete's sake.
Reply: Guess I should have mentioned that you must also be a very literal person with little understanding of symbolism. I wasn't talking about vacuum cleaners; I was talking about plastic. And I fear that plastic will end up being like lead. You may not remember lead but it used to be put in gas to prevent knocking etc. And everyone used it at one time - there was no choice! For 50 plus years it was used in gas before it became known that it as well as it's positive qualities, lead was and still is a significant environmental contaminant because it is toxic, persistent, is and stored in biological tissues when breathed in, ingested etc. It makes people sick and can kill them and it took 50 years to learn this about the gas we used and thousands of years when you consider that lead poisoning from drinking water carried to homes in lead pipes is considered a major cause in the downfall of the Roman Empire. Long term effects are not given enough consideration. They may not effect you but they may very well affect your children, grandchildren etc.
Comment: Manufacturers, by law, do have to be concerned with their products end of life use.
Reply: By law men must not murder other men but they do. By law, meat is to be inspected but inspectors can be bought off and packers can play with the law and then we get ecoli outbreaks.Laws regarding standards put on products are not normally enacted until After a product has hurt, maimed or killed a number of people. Except for the Ten Commandments, laws are a reactionary move in most things. And some things take a very long time of hurting people before they are reacted to. There is an expression, "Fools rush in where wise men fear to go" and most of those fools of late are manufacturing something or governing somewhere.
Comment: I don't get the airborne comment either.
Reply: I cannot believe you have never seen a car become airborne. It's a favourite shot in movies and Evil Knevil made a career out of making cars and bikes airborne. Less entertaining is hitting the wrong thing in the wrong place at the wrong speed and WOW! your car becomes airborne and you crash at the end of it all. The lighter the car, the farther it flies and if you have ever driven through the Rockies or Alps, that can be one very long distance and the longer the distance, the harder you land. Not my idea of a great way to go. But then neither is the cancer I have been fighting since 1991 the result of another manufactured and widely used and loudly touted commodity at one time - DDT.
I am not saying that there are no positives to having plastic cars, just that the idea should be more fully researched and all the results made public before you jump in. I'm not a fuddy-duddy but I am old enough to remember food that tasted good and was fit to eat, air that was sweet and healthy to breathe and cars that were strong enough to hit a pole and do more damage to the pole than to the car or the driver. If you do not learn from the mistakes in history, you are bound to repeat them. Don't repeat them. I sort of admire anyone with enough jam to call me a fuddy duddy on International Internet and do not want to see you come to any unfortunate end. :o)
Plastic Cars
by clnds - 6/21/07 12:48 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I think plastic car bodies are great-- hasn't the Corvette had a fiberglas body from day one? Plastic doesn't rust, it can be made stronger than steel, and it is very repairable.
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