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Car Tech: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars?
- 6/6/07 1:57 PM
Plastic or metal?
by Starman35 - 6/21/07 5:52 AM In reply to: two totally differnt worlds by batman823This and most of the posts in this forum are debating topics other than cars & should be immediately deleted. As for metal or plastic in cars, both have a place: Good, stout metal is stronger & more resistant to major damage than plastic, and it doesn't burn. It also provides a "Faraday Cage" to protect the occupants from lightning. Plastic is light weight and infinitely moldable, so it is ideal for trim, light lenses, etc. It is less satisfactory than steel in uses such as bumpers, where even the slightest collision causes dimples and deep scratches. Other sheet metals, such as aluminum, combine corrosion resistance with light weight, and also maintain the Faraday Cage effect, which plastic cannot duplicate, & so are better than plastic fro body parts.
there are pros and cons with plastic and metal
by batman823 - 6/21/07 6:26 AM In reply to: Plastic or metal? by Starman35Plastic does burn. But most of the time, it will just deform and melt when exposed to heat. In a major car fire fueled by gasoline, all the plastics and cloth materials will burn. But I agree with the aluminum statement you made.
As far as the paneling goes, unless you use 1/4 of wrought iron, no material will provide any significant protection, not plastic, steel, composites, etc. The frame and bumpers obviously need to be made of a sturdy material such as steel.
The point of being off-topic, read the end of my last post or two on this forum. I suggested moving the conversation to a more appropriate forum and staying closer to topic. When dealing with automobile industry and oil concerns, politics are inevitably going to be discussed. But I agree they should be on the topic, not right vs left B.S.
There are cheap composites that are lighter than steel but stronger, such as foam infused aluminum. These kind of things could greatly increase fuel economy and safety at the same time. The trouble is getting auto companies to produce such things.
Thanks for the input though.
Health Care
by RBUTCHER - 6/21/07 8:01 AM In reply to: Wow, this is a joke right? by Andy77eCanada's health care isn't perfect, however people are not flying to the U.S.A. for treatment. (that's nonsence) If you asked any Canadian they would complain somewhat about the system, however 95% of them would not ever give it up to have a system like the U.S. In fact that is one comment everyone has "at least it's not like the U.S. system". The way they see it at least everyone gets treated, you don't have to pay through the nose, it doesn't discriminate. Just show your health card at a hospital and you are treated like every other person walking in and that is at every hospital. They can't turn you away for any reason. We hear horror stories of people from Canada having accidents in the U.S. and having to pay the bill (immediately if you didn't spend some big bucks for additional health coverage before leaving Canada) Why on earth would I want to fly to the U.S.A. for treatment and I don't know anyone in Canada who ever has. Maybe if you are talking about a very wealthy individual. We have some of the best hospitals in the world. I was at one and people there were from the U.S. getting treatment because they heard of it and it was less expensive to get the best treatment.
Health Care
by ugadoc - 6/21/07 11:55 AM In reply to: Health Care by RBUTCHERWhat are you talking about?!? I am a physician and I see first hand how the U.S. works. I also see Canadians coming down here for surgery because the care is better and takes less time to get access to it. Also, contrary to popular belief, people do not get turned away in this country. I work in a county hospital and we take care of all people who come in, even illegal immigrants without worrying about how they are going to pay for it first! The horror stories are told to Canadians so they won't mind that it takes months to take that colon cancer out or get some other procedure done. So you might ask somebody who is a health care worker in the US before you start telling stories. Our system has some problems but it is the best we have for a country of our population. The Canadian system would be a disaster down here.
Case
by carolina07 - 6/25/07 1:02 PM In reply to: Health Care by ugadocDoctors always make that argument. Universal healthcare means being a public servant. Who wants public servant salaries?
Uh... that is the point
by Andy77e - 6/30/07 9:05 PM In reply to: Case by carolina07Yes, they do make that argument, because it's right. Look, right now Doctors come here from all over the world. Why? Because they actually get paid for what they do. In some places in the world, like Africa and the Middle East, they leave their homes to come here... because they don't get paid there, and they do here.
Now if you adopt their system, do you think the best doctors are going to keep coming here? Nope, they'll go someplace else and you'll whine about how our doctors botch more surgeries, but at least it'll be cheap health care.
If you want good health care, it costs money. If you want it cheap or free, then be ready for crappy service. Some hospitals in France have no AC and rooms have 3 or 4 people in them year round. But hey it's free, hope you get sick only in winter and don't get claustrophobic.
HMO health insurance is cheap because the service sucks. "I got it, lets make everyone use an HMO"... yeah it's called "universal health care".
Health Care
by RBUTCHER - 7/4/07 1:01 PM In reply to: Health Care by ugadocI've heard stories about people complaining about our Canadian health care waiting times. I feel it must be just a story because in all my 58 years of living in Canada I've never met even one person in my entire life(out of 1000's and 1000's) that has traveled to the U.S. to get medical treatment. Anyone I've ever talked to has comented that they would never want to be caught in the U.S. without health insurance. Maybe a person can get treatment down there but I don't believe anyone would be let off of paying for it afterwards. The people that I've known that have had accidents down there tried their best to return home to a Canadian hospital which was covered by Canadian health insurance. The daily rates of hospitalization were too high for them. Unless you are rich or have some kind of U.S. insurance coverage why would you travel to the U.S. to get treatment. Yes, I see why a physician would say the Canadian system would not work down in the U.S. The physicians and politicians are the main complainers of our system. The physicians because they cann't raise rates easily (the government won't let them)and the politicians to win votes. Physicians that may want to move to the U.S. think it's great because they can make more down there. I see why you say it wouldn't work for you. Your poor that cann't afford health insurance may not see it that way. I have two people in my neighbourhood that have had colon cancer in the last few years and they got treatment quickly and see their physician regularly (so I'm sure there is no waiting for them). They are getting some kind of treatment almost every time I talk to them. The person across the street had a double bypass and a new heart valve last week. (no waiting there) Ontario has some of the world's best hospitals and I and anyone I know (or have met in 58 years) wouldn't trade the system for anything. I'm sure it can be improved so it's great that there are critics of it. We all like our system up here and everyone would like improvements to it but just try voting it out (90% or more would say "no way")
FYI
by Andy77e - 7/4/07 4:41 PM In reply to: Health Care by RBUTCHERThis is an FYI about Canadian health care.
The following article is one of dozens I've read.
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/Canada.pdf
Short reprint of one section:
=================
For example, the Canadian think tank, the Fraser Institute, found that, for patients requiring surgery, the total average waiting time from the initial visit to the family doctor through to surgery was 17.7 weeks, a significantly more than the 16 weeks found in 2001.1 Median waiting times remain higher in every category than are deemed ‘clinically reasonable’ median waiting times by physicians in 2005. (Fraser Institute, 2005, Chart 14.) Overall, 85 per cent of median waiting times are higher than clinically reasonable waiting times. (Fraser Institute, p. 27.)
In 2005 Canadians waited 12.3 weeks for an MRI scan, 5.5 weeks for a CT-scan and 3.4 weeks for an ultrasound. (Fraser Institute, Chart 16.) In 2002, Canada had fewer CT scanners per 1,000 population than the OECD average (10.8 compared with 19). Similarly, it had only 4.7 MRI scanners per 1,000 population compared with an OECD average of 7.9. Unsurprisingly, many choose to fly south to the US for diagnosis and treatment.
Canada ranked 24th out of 27 OECD countries in 2002 for the number of doctors per 1,000 population. It had 2.3 compared with an OECD average of 2.9.
==========================
This is one section of one article in dozens about the problems with Canadian health care. Most people with minor problems have no issues with Canada's health care system. Of course everyone likes free, until you have a problem that causes you to be on a waiting list.
One article from the Heritage Foundation quoted a Canadian news paper that related that there is a max quota of CT-scans every day. Once that number is reached, no more CT-scans are allowed to be done. One hospital reopened the CT-scan for, of all things, pets. A pet owner could bring in their dog to get a CT-scan for money, but a person suffering pain that needed a CT-scan had to wait 6 weeks because of Government refusing to pay for more scans. One man who needed a CT-scan and was put on a 6.5 week waiting list, showed up after hours and offered to pay for a CT-scan. They refused because it was illegal under the law.
The above poster is correct, not many people fly to the US for health care, but that is only because they have no money to do so. Those that do, do. One Canadian government official checked into the government run hospital with chest pains. After being put on a 2 week waiting list, he bought an air ticket, flew to the US, check into a hospital, and got the scan in a US hospital, on the same day he was told 2 weeks by the Canadian hospital.
There are good aspects to a government run health system, namely you pay nothing. But there are many many bad aspects. So people take their pick.
oil price
by colin1935 - 6/22/07 2:52 PM In reply to: How does this forum have all the fortune teller? by Andy77eYou dont pay the world price for fuel at the pump,thats aggro to the rest of the world..
What do we know?
by phrelin - 6/8/07 9:10 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Things I would like to know: Are these plastics volatile (still giving off carcinogenic vapors)? What risks will public safety personnel face when the hydrogen powering these cars bursts into flames? Do these plastics become brittle after 15 years of exposure to sun in Arizona? Can these plastics be recycled again? Or are they to be ground up and put in a landfill causing unknown future problems for the water table? Or are they to be sent off to the world's poorest places for poisonous recycling like our electronics? If we ask, would GE's plastics division now sold to a petroleum related Saudi Arabian company give us honest answers? I'll bet we really don't know anything about this stuff.
Some good questions there
by Leria - 6/21/07 7:18 AM In reply to: What do we know? by phrelinThere are some good questions there. As to the plastic volatility question.... there are some very good studies that say that any car with the 'new car' smell is dangerous, the plastics are still giving out carcinogens into the air during the period when it has that smell to it.
Do these plastics become brittle after long exposure to the sun? I don't think they do, my parents had an old Chevy Blazer that was made at the beginning of the 'plastics age' that was almost 15 years old when the brakes failed and my father said it wasn't worth getting it fixed because it was rusting out in places. The plastics were fine, a little cracked on the dashboard and faded out from sun exposure, but not brittle where you could pick pieces off of it.
As to the "Can these be recycled again?" question.... I think they can. I think they are already recycling the outside of cars, though don't hold me to it, I could be wrong about what the guy told us when I wrecked my parents 1990 Chevy Blazer recently.
new smell
by wcoffey81 - 6/21/07 12:33 PM In reply to: Some good questions there by Leriayes everything inside the car gives off fumes some of the are not-so-bad and some of them are just bad. the flexibilizers used to make plastics and foams, well flexible, have been know to be bad for you. have you ever had to wash the inside of the car windows because of a greasy film??? and you don't smoke??? it probably a film of poly-isocyanites. that a big word but do any of you notice the reference to a small word in the middle???? cyani.... it is very closely related to cyanide. that chemical is the reason i now sit here working on PC.s waiting for joint surgery after joint surgery instead of out there repairing automobiles
life span
by colin1935 - 6/22/07 3:39 PM In reply to: Some good questions there by LeriaSome of the 50 year plus old buses and coaches made with fibreglass are still tobe found as either tourist vehicles or in preservation
I really think there is so much of it all around you it does not look any different on the visiable side so you just dont give it a second.
thought.. Yes if you look in the engine box of a bus or the destination box you may see its all rough and fibers while the outter side is all smooth..In the UK its hard to give the expected working life years its often more to do with the like of engines and gear boxes and chassis than bodies that give types a short life of 12 years but many types remain in daily full time service 22-25 years...
Some good questions there
by stahu - 6/26/07 1:17 PM In reply to: Some good questions there by LeriaI don't know about today's plastics, but my mother had a 1966 Chevy II Nova that looked like new when it was 25 years old, but the rear window inside trim was made of plastic and crumbling on the rear package shelf at the time.
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