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Car Tech: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars?
- 6/6/07 1:57 PM
Plastics
by whitegreyhat - 6/20/07 10:58 PM In reply to: Stops rusting nicely, but resiliance in other cases is iffy. by pauljs75The types of plastics which are going to be used in these cars are high quality polymers. These engineers are not stupid. Where do you think Kevlar comes from (polyarylamide), the answer is plastics. In case you don't know what that is used for, it is used for making bullet proof vests, and other bullet proof applications. We aren't talking about making a car out of last years unsold Christmas ornaments. People get this idea of plastics and automatically start to think about the Pintos and Geo Metros. It is not the same thing, very rarely is a typical consumer like you going to see the actual potential that plastics have for actual practical use, because of the fact that it is very expensive at this stage in development and the other reason is people don't want change. They hear plastic cars and immediately become paranoid about being "disintegrated upon impact" or "zapped by lighting" as i saw in previous posts, have some faith in the future...
Plastic vs metal
by qingdaodude - 6/20/07 10:13 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
OK; Good points raised by all. Carcinogens? Bad. Lightweight, ding resistance,recylable? Good! Safety? Mixed bag depending. Look at the A-1 race cars. Very light weight, but the "cockpit" area is very safe and detachable in case of smashups. Same theories should apply to any passenger vehicle. Corvette is a prime example of a private car that uses some of these ideas. Fiberglass panels, X-frame, side protection etcetera. I've seen Stingrays that looked like an unassembled Japanese action toy...hundreds of pieces, but the driver pod almost untouched and the driver? Still alive to tell a harrowing tale.
Bottom line is the maximum safety/economy/environmentally friendly unit we can build, NOT the easiest, cheapest, most profitable piece of eye-candy we can get away with.
Retro in China
i own a plastic car
by snag 1 - 6/20/07 10:32 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
My 1986 Popntiac Fiero GT is made of three types of plastic. The roof,hood and trunk lid area hard plastic for strength andthe fenders and door panels are a flexible type the same as on a Saturn. The front and rear bumpers are soft flexible plastic with flex paint so it will not crack in minor hits. This plastic car is the most fun car I have owned.
I would just not buy a car.
by jigmeg - 6/20/07 10:41 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
If all are worried about carbon footprints on the sands of limited time, then why buy a car at all. Use the old Dodge Dart until it's rust and dust. They go public transport or scooter/motorbike/mountain bike. Move closer to work so you can walk. Change your lifestyle to save the planet. There is not much time left. Ask a polar bear.
Carless in Nepal
Fire/photographs
by colin1935 - 6/22/07 8:10 AM In reply to: I would just not buy a car. by jigmegPity I cant download photograph for you to see a bus the alloy manels melted but the fibreglass is still in situ..
fire
by wcoffey81 - 6/23/07 11:09 AM In reply to: Fire/photographs by colin1935magnesium is one of the only metals i know of that would burn like what you describe. i know there are others but that is one very commonly used. even with a fire like that the fiberglass would be just a crust. the polyester resin in fiberglass will burn and/or melt but the spun glass fibers will stay pretty much intact.
"Both And" is the real answer, IMHO.
by metajohn - 6/20/07 11:14 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I favor the increased use of plastic materials in auto construction. Where ever the materials make sense use them. Materials Science and Engineering is a steadily evolving art/discipline, and new uses of old materials, as well as new materials altogether are constantly being brought to the marketplace.
The only major downside of plastic materials are their susceptibility to become involved as fuel in any fire events. That may also produce a toxic or at least noxious gas as well. There are ways to mitigate and control that danger, but at some tipping point where most (or at least most of the surface) of the vehicle is plastic that danger may become more serious.
The other trend which I favor is the use of more alloy, esp. Aluminum alloys, in certain parts, e.g. wheels, major & minor castings, engine blocks, Tranny cases, etc.
All of that should add up to a lighter and more efficient vehicle requiring less horsepower to motivate, less braking to halt, and increased duty-life cycle for major subsystems and the vehicle itself. Engines are so much better now than they were, even by the late 1970's, that few people, other than car restorers, even realize how poorly conceived and made all engines from 1900 to the early 1970's really were!
Modern injection sytems, engine management computers, and distributorless ignitions are far superior to all that ever went before. The use of specific alloys at various points inside the engine itself have reduced weight, increased reliability, and made closer tolerances possible. This allows modern engines to produce a great deal more torque and power from smaller displacement engines without having the increased internal stresses reduce engine life. In fact, a well maintained modern engine often lasts more than twice as long, between major breakdowns or overhauls, than any enigne produced in the 50's and 60's. Few people ever own a vehicle long enough, any more, to replace either valves, rings, or bearings. That was not the case for most of automotive history before the past twenty years.
I had seriously thought that by this time we would be siing the use of high-temperature, low brittleness ceramic components inside our engines. I don't know what the current status of the development cycle on those items is, but I recall the prediction that items like that would eventually turn up inside the combustion chambers of engines with positive results.
If you are an automotive engineer invovled all that has happened especially since 1980, feel free to pat yourslef on the back for the thoroughgoing evolution you have put the auto through since you began work.
JB is metajohn@aol.com
Bend your mind around the new concept.
by Zimminger - 6/20/07 11:29 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Living in a state that salts roads in the winter, I can think of at least one big pro to a plastic bodied car. As far as safety, it may be time to reconsider the turtle model. Do people wear steel helmets when riding motorcycles? No, they're fiberglass and plastic foam. Bicycles, even lighter...styrofoam with plastic mesh reinforcing and a thin plastic shell to protect and smooth the surface. It's cheap, it's light, it does the job. As far as recyclable, anything is recyclable with the right technology. I hunt for stores that take plastic grocery bags for recycling and stuff their barrels with bags I get from my own shopping, my family and friends.
I like the plastic bodies in my Saturn cars.
by seeyoung8365 - 6/20/07 11:33 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I bought my first Saturn car in 2000 because I need a car for tight parking spaces without worrying about dents. My 2000 Saturn LS2 serves me well for that purpose. I since bought two more Saturns, a 1996 LS2 for my daughter and a 2005 Ion2 for my mother-in-law. There is not a single dent in the plastic bodies. On the other hand, my 2002 Honda Odyssey has several dents including a nasty one on the right fender near the wheel-well. I think for city driving and parking, nothing beats plastic body panels.
Not if I can help it...
by wiz2525 - 6/20/07 11:54 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
In late May I was coming home late as the bars were closing and a patron of one of the bars pulled out in front of me with so little time that all I could do was attempt to dodge his extended cab long bed pickup. I got as far as the corner of the truck bed.
I was driving a 1974 Super Beetle. The front end of the car was crushed, but the force of initial contact of the car to the truck dissipated enough energy to save my life and the paramedics were able to pull me out through the passenger side door after getting it open. The car from the doors back looked fine, although there was enough twisting of the frame of the car to make opening the driver's side door impossible, and the passenger side door stuck unagreeably but could be opened.
I believe had I been in the beer can cars of today in any equivalent size as the bug, I wouldn't be here to type this reply. I suffered 2 broken ribs, probably whiplash, probably torn meniscus of my right knee, and a deep laceration to the bone on my left outer elbow. I impacted the steering wheel with my central jaw, driving a partial lower plate through the skin below my lower lip. It was not pretty, and the other driver was taken to jail for DWI and also given a ticket for failure to yield.
I can't imagine a 'steel cage' absorbing this impact and still leaving me enough room to live through the wreck. The ribs and lower lip would have been protected from the steering wheel ONLY until the cage was crushed inward enough to collapse upon my survival space.
I was driving only 35mph, it was a downtown street but on the outskirts of town, and as far as I can tell, I never had a chance to hit the brakes. I can't say for sure because after the impact I was unconscious, probably with a concussion, until the paramedics pulled me from the car. I ended up with a hole in my memory, there's no 'tape' to 'playback' of the wreck. The 'tape' starts when the EMS guys are trying to reassure me while trying to figure out how to get me safely out of the car. I have a picture of the bug, but no way to share it here unless you contact me and make special arrangements. The car was almost completely restored, new motor w/less than 10K on it and less than 6 mos old, new front end, macphearson struts, tires, the car was in top running shape and ready for new paint and interior. Now it is a twisted piece of sick modern art.
Plastics are still plastics....
by greenfrognsw - 6/21/07 1:09 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Plastics??? You gotta be kidding. Back in 1976, when I accidently reversed into a lamp-post in the dark of the night, the post tilted 15 degrees. No damage was done on my Fiat 132 chromed STEEL bumper! Not even a dent! Try doing that today with your "modern" safety-oriented car! Sigh! Bring back the good ole times!
Plastic cars?
by cdadave - 6/21/07 2:33 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
You've got to be kidding. There is such a thing as economizing too much. What kind of protection is a plastic car going to provide to a driver or passenger in a collision? What is going to be the weight factor of plastic cars? The higher the speed, the more air resistance there is, and I'm currently having visions of plastic cars veering off the road whenever there's a healthy gust of wind. A YUGO would seem like a luxury limousine compared to a plastic car. What a silly idea!
Memory plastic
by amckenas - 6/21/07 4:08 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
It would be nice to have a vehicle constructed with memory plastic. If you bang it up a little bit of heat would make it spring back good as new!
UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED
by marc_90292 - 6/21/07 4:30 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
This discussion reminds me of the French sportscar Renault Alpine, I drove in Germany. The car's body was made entirely out of plastic, even the luggage compartment - at the front of the car - was made of impregnated cardboard. The tires were extra-wide, resulting in a stark reduction of pressure per square inch, and thus reducing the car's ability to withstand aqua-planning.
Indeed, in June of 1990 - at a speed of under 60 mph - the front liftet off, the car started spinning, non-reactive to any counter-steering attempt, eventually hit the guard rail, at which time it dissolved itself in its parts. My head hit and broke the side window and I was out for 15 minutes.
That experience taught me to stay away from cars that have been designed by engineers who have not a clue of the consequences of their efforts to make cars lighter, for whatever reason. Saving gas? Yes! Toyota has the right idea.
who are you kidding
by pollybilamagpie - 6/21/07 4:49 AM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I think that both the tin cans and the plastic cars are death traps. I don't want any of the newer cars or trucks. Give the older models anytime. I've recently been involve in an accident that had I been in either the tin-cans or the plastic cars I don't think I would be here to give my opinion. I tried to avoid a tractor-trailer making a U turn in the middle of the highway. I wound up hitting the trailer. I totaled my 88 Eagle Premier but my son and I only suffered minor injuries. bumps and bruises and a few cuts. had I been in a tin-can or plastic car then I would have wound up with the engine in my lap and the trailer in my face. If you want to risk that then you take the tin-cans and the plastic. I want METAL around me for some protection should something like that happen to me again. Thank God for the protection of good old fashion METAL
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