Car Tech: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars?
- 6/6/07 1:57 PM
thanks andy
by batman823 - 7/9/07 5:11 AM In reply to: Side note by Andy77eThat's some surprisingly new info. I knew of the "rotory engine" as the 8,12,16, and 24 cyl. rotational, yet standard enginges. But I really thought that the rotary engine used in mazdas was used in some airplanes. Thanks for the correction.
I am a little familiar with the construction and theory, but obviously you are more knowledgable on that subject. I know they are a little more efficient than a traditional engine with equal HP. But they also have a much larger RPM range. The term 'RPM' makes much more sense to me with rotary engines because the engine actually rotates. I babble too much
They are, but for a different reason.
by Andy77e - 7/9/07 5:09 PM In reply to: thanks andy by batman823Mazda's rotary is more efficient. But the reason is because of smaller size. Since each rotor acts like three pistons, you have a two rotor engine being able to produce the power of a V6. A three rotor engine likewise produces the power of a 9 cylinder engine (which does exist, but this is the equivalent).
The key being, a rotor takes a lot less space than three cylinders. Thus a 1.5 liter rotary is so much smaller than a 3.1 liter V6, yet produce the same power.
The efficiency then comes from less weight and smaller size. Of course in the equation power to move weight times speed, if you reduce weight, and leave speed and power the same... that's more efficiency.
Sadly, the rotary is no better at extracting more mechanical force from an amount of fuel. In fact, without turbo charging, it gets less. This is because it is harder to get the compression you need with a rotor.
fighters
by wcoffey81 - 6/23/07 9:35 AM In reply to: Plastic in autos and other vehicles by Rick Cavarettimodern planes may very well be made of composites but also cost how many millions to produce???? when cost is no object you can do a lot of radical things with exotic products. throughout WW2 and beyond a lot of planes used cloth in their construction. so does that mean we should also have cloth covered cars??
Plastic cars
by verschoor2 - 6/20/07 8:57 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Frankly if the plastic is durable, UV resistant and offers the same protection as metal, and repair costs are the same, I would prefer plastic. If plastics ever have the same characteristics as carbon fiber I would pay extra for a car containing large amounts of these plastics paired with a powerful engine. It is pounds per horsepower that is the most potent factor influencing acceleration and top speed. The Lotus which is one of the lightest cars being produced can outrun cars with almost twice as many horsepower. Almost all motorcyles which are relatively light can go 0-60 in 4 seconds or less. Only very high performance cars perform like this because of their massive weight. Using more quality plastics would increase performance as well as gas economy.
Plastic bodies are good, but give me a steel chrome bumper
by DougBP - 6/20/07 9:07 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I like the light weight plastic bodies. I had a 58 Chevy Impala one time, a beautiful car, but I couldn't keep the fenders from rusting out around the headlights. Eventually, somebody sold me a fibre-glass fender. When the car eventually went to that big parking lot in the sky, there wasn't mush left to most of the body, but it sure had one nice fender. So I like the plastic because it doesn't rust.
I don't want it to be brittle in severe cold. Hey it gets pretty brutal on the Canadian prairie or the northern American mid-west.
But please, give us chromed steel bumpers again. You can actually use them for something, like pushing another vehicle if it is stalled. Also, if you lightly bump an immovable object, a plastic bumper may be destroyed while a chrome bumper just needs buffing with a soft cloth.
plastic cars
by stevedrummer - 6/20/07 9:07 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Get real - race cars have been made of fiberglass for most readers' lifetimes - and safety not an issue because of plastic - the frames and body safety design do all the work.
Plastic is durable, also burns!
by Gilbert Gibbs - 6/20/07 9:11 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
There are pros and cons about all types of cars today, and I enjoyed driving a 95 Saturn SL2 for eleven years until the metal parts just gave up on it. The one incident that made me shudder was to see the results of a highway accident when two very modern cars hit headon, with one bursting into flame after impact. All the plastic burned so totally that all was left was the frame and a ten foot diameter black spot on the road! I'll stay with metal bodied cars as much as is possible, thanks!
Plastic cars are junk and your missing the point
by David Donalson - 6/20/07 9:16 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
At 62, I have owned a lot of cars. I have been in various forms of auto racing all of my life. I believe in all of the safety features because I have had the accidents before the rules required the various devices including safety belts. Having a car safe enough to with stand a crash at 200 MPH is great, believe me. On the street, the rules don't change, just the speed. At 35 MPH, you don't need a car to collapse into a pile of rubble to be safe.
Several years ago I put my wife in a 1986 Jag. It's a tank at 4975 lbs. She has been sitting stopped at a traffic light and was rear-ended by a Lexus SUV. She drove off with no damage. The Lexus was totaled. She was t-boned recently and got the wreaker driver to change the damaged wheel so she could drive home. The other car was totaled. She has never been hurt.
I still wish I owned the 1980 Buick I use to own. It was the small one, but it had the 35 MPH bumpers like my wife's Jag. Over the 18 years I owned the car, I was rear ended 8 times and never had to repair the car. But that's Houston traffic and I am not out to support auto manufacturers by buying a new car every time someone hits me.
I have been a geek since 1960. I always try new stuff. I have given up on plastic cars because I hate the noise these things start making after you hit one pot hole. Maybe if I lived in a small town and did not have to worry about the other driver and my bank balance, I might try again. But as long as Congress, the insurance companies, and the auto companies are playing games to get our money, I will have no part.
All you need to do is look up a little history. 40 years ago cars stopped from 60 MPH in 110 to 120 feet. Today they take more distance with anti lock brakes. 25 years ago cars with stood 35 MPH impacts without damage. Today they are totaled. It's all about your money.
All the current solutions are stupid. Everything can be recycled, except fuel. Alcohol just makes ADM rich and drives up the cost of food. I used to travel to Brazil where they have used alcohol for years. Rush hour traffic will choke you. It's all about your money.
I don't want to destroy the Earth. I want my grand children to have children of their own some day. But unlike our leaders, we use mass transit for trips, live close to our work, and just don't drive that much to save. Common sense is the thing that's missing.
Common sense is the thing that's missing.
by jbpop2 - 6/20/07 9:31 PM In reply to: Plastic cars are junk and your missing the point by David Donalson"Common sense is the thing that's missing." Amen brother AMEN!!!
Editers Choice of Hybrid vehicles
by mrjj - 6/20/07 9:43 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I thought that hybrid technology was to reduce the carbon footprint.
Then I read the editers choice of hybrid vehicles. Over half of your top picks would cost me more than I am spending now for 12000 miles per year, and I drive a Towncar that gets about 22 miles per gallon. But of course your picks, for the most part, were mostly of the higher priced luxury hybrid vehicles. But then I drive a higher priced luxury vehicle so why would I buy one of your picks when it will cost me mileage? Wake up and pay attention to what you are picking, your choice in this case was not to bright. Unless your picks were just to keep up with the Jones...
Plastic Cars - not in my plans!
by Dialisys - 6/20/07 9:44 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Ever had a small rub to your car in a parking lot, where some jerk backed out of a spot and scuffed up your paint work?
I just purchased a brand new vehicle and just had this experience.
I was able to polish out the damage to the metal bodywork with very little effort.
But it was a different story with the rear plastic bumper - there is absolutely no chance any scuff marks can be removed.
I also feal that normal wear and tear, weathering etc and suns rays will deteriorate the external finish of plastic.
My vote is no to plastic - Let the Chinese continue to use this for production of cheap Christmas time stocking stuffers!
plastic cars
by asus - 6/20/07 9:49 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
there are cars out there now that are made with plastic panals , saturn and the smart to name a few. If they use aluminum of some metal that dont rust for the unibody ,up here in the north that would be the car, i just send a Honda to the salvage yard cause it rusted all out,theres no safty in a rusted out car it makes the whole car a crumple zone , or is there a resale value . On you tube there is videos of the smart in crash tests up to 60 mph . i think it would be a good ideal to use plastic or materials that is not susceptible to corrosion ,and if they add crumple zones so the car takes the inpact not you . lighter materials would be a plus better gas milage , but not so light that normal prairie winds would be a hazard to control.
No Way
by NWRCS - 6/20/07 9:49 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
I drive today the same car I drove 38 years ago.
Solid, reliable, in overfdrive 26MPG.
Finally put a new motor in after 300K.
Has over 500K on the clock.
You can see stuff under the hood and work on it.
I was in auto repair for 35 years, I wouldn't own plastic or import.
Flatheads Forever!
And as a bonus, no stinking computers!
Plastic or sheet metal for passenger cars ?
by TonyGuitar - 6/20/07 10:56 PM In reply to: No Way by NWRCSCombination is best. Example 1987 Jeep Wagoneer.
20 year old Wagoneer still looks good as anything on the road today. For Proof in a good sized photo see:
http://TonyGuitar.blogspot.com
The Wagoneer has plastic fender lip trim. This little 4 cylinder bounce around town Jeep is finally getting tired out at 240,000ks. Starting to burn a little oil.
This never was a freeway vehicle and the ride is * harsh alert*. Still, it is always reliable and the lack of any serious rust must be the result of careful deluxe assembly and undercoating.
What would a Lexan / Perspex / plexiglas roof look like after 20 years? Would it have leaking cracks from temperature extremes? Would it look like hell due to thousands of scratches? Would it have gone all cloudy and dingey looking?
Did the limited use of fender trim plastic keep this Jeep from rusting around the fenders?
Should I put a new engine in this Jeep? [$$]
Should I do a PEV conversion? [$$]
How about a [ made in France],compressed-air motor conversion.
Refuel with 2 hours of nightime air compression to a 4,500 PSI tank.
Think of it as a steam engine wihtout heat or steam.
The French are exporting thousands to India and they run air-pressure Taxis in Paris. [ Photo on my blog ]
Plastic cars are a dubious wait and see thing for me. = TG
Stops rusting nicely, but resiliance in other cases is iffy.
by pauljs75 - 6/20/07 9:49 PM In reply to: What are the pros and cons of plastic cars? by wcunning
Pros: Less opportunity for corrosion. If the paint gets a scratch, chip, scrape, it's not going to rust. So on most cars with a plastic body or lower body panels, "death from car cancer" is practically a thing of the past. Typically everything else will wear out before the body goes (look at old Saturns for instance.)
Cons: Most automotive plastics have limited give or are composited with another more rigid material. So if you bang a car into something too hard it will crack or tear. (Unfortunately the 5mph resilient bumper is no more.) So things in the past which would have merely caused a dented bumper or panel (if that even) now necessitate replacement of the entire piece. Replacement panels aren't cheap, typically over $500 U.S. Also if the plastic is a composited with another material such as fiberglass it can't be easily recycled if at all. If repaint work is done on a car with mixed plastic and metal body panels, sometimes the paint doesn't match 100% due to the different qualities of the plastic and metal primers.
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