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Cell phones: T-Mobile Wing and Win Mobile 6
Wing Passed all it's Tests...
by Hoiberg - 6/6/07 11:50 AM In reply to: Dash vs Wing by ArmaInvictaArmaInvicta,
I am telling you this because you work for T-Mob, there needs to be better testing done. I have had my Wing for less than 2 weeks and I am in the process of returning mine. PDA Support wants me to try another, and I am going to just to be helpful, but there are several overlooked software buttons that are missing or not functioning; as well as items that don't work or functioning all the time.
PDA Support @ T-Mob is aware of all of these issues as I have spent close to 5 hours on the phone working with them to document and hopfully remedy these issues.
Let me background my PPC history first before I post the issues I found within 3 days of having the device.
Started off years ago with a Cassiopeia running CE2.0, migrated to a HP Jornada 547 running PPC 2000, then moved to a Dell Axim X5 running PPC 2003 which I eventually upgraded to PPC 2003 SE, then to a HP HX2210 running PPC 2003 SE before purchasing my MDA over a year ago. I have been using the MDA since.
Problems with the Wing that I have found: (I can go into further detail if you want, just trying to be brief)
No way of easily getting to Contacts from Phone Application. You have to exit the phone App and make calls from the Contacts App, you could access the Contacts App from the Phone App on the MDA.
In the Calendar Application the Edit button has been replaced with a Grayed out Reply button (non-functioning), now to edit an appointment, you have to select Menu, and then Edit.
vCard and vCalendar Application do not function properly. All incoming and outgoing vCards and vCalendars have their files extensions changed to .txt.
Camera constantly fails to start due to not enough available Program Memory.
Device runs out of available Program memory throughout the day. After a Reset, the Wing has ~10MB of Program Memory available, but by the evening, it’s down to 3.5MB (even after closing all Applications that may have been open). It doesn't recover the Program memory from closed Applications. The Camera will not open at 2MB or 1MB resolution below 3.5MB of available Program Memory, if the device drops below 2.75MB of Program Memory, you need to reset it. Other Applications won't open at this point.
I personally do Beta testing for a company that designs Apps for PPC's and this phone was not properly tested.
T-Mob might want to think about getting a group of customers that are considered Power Users to Beta test their devices before they release, like I said previously, I found these issues within the first 3 days of having this device.
SIM card is going back into my MDA...
I will say this, if you remove the fact that the device should have had more memory in it, the Hardware for the Wing is extremely nice. Far superior to the MDA, It feels good, the weight is nice, and the full size stylus is great. The slider is slick, and the device configuration is just comfortable. HTC did a nice job on this unit.
(I would also like to mention I am a happy and satisfied T-Mob customer, just a bit disappointed at the moment.)
Chris
SOFTWARE CHANGES ARENT GLITCHES
by bsb4303 - 6/7/07 9:29 AM In reply to: Wing Passed all it's Tests... by HoibergTHere are some clonflictions in programming on the new T-Mobile Wing. THese clonflicts are minor and will be addressed accordingly. Windows Mobile 6.0 has WINDOWS UPDATE built in so im sure we can expect microsoft to keep its software evolving. Advanced users should enable error reporting on their WINGs to assist in this process.
PLEASE NOTE: MENU structures and contents being different the previous OS is normal and should be expected.
THE CAMERA MEMORY is deffinately confirmed from my experience.
Voice command was lagging and causing device freezes however, since hard reset no issues with it.
VOice command was lagging and causing device freezes when recieved a SMS or MMS message containg a phone number, since hard reset no issue with it.
MyFaves display shows unread message or missed call from MyFaves TODAY plugin even when information is deleted. Hiding TOday Plugin and reactivating the TODAY display will clear it up. THis software glitch will need to be updated by T-Mobile which can be expected.
TALK button was not opening Phone program, issues resolved after hard reset.
Contact button not found in phone program is true, however this is just a software change, not a glitch.
Restart Device once daily. WHen purchasing and device at release some software snags should be expected. Advanced users only at this stage. Updates usualy release within the first 3-6 mths of launch. Advanced users should consider enabling error reporting. User Manual issues with device purchase is very easy to follow. It will brush you up on any device changes when upgrading from the MDA,it only took an hour to breeze through.
You will increase voice command accuracy when using a bluetooth headset. I recommend the Plantronics carried in T-Mobile retail stores. Explorer 330, 8hrs talk time, noise canceling mic, steady fit design, 49.99. PLANTRONICS 655, 10hrs talk time, noise cancle mic, multiple charging options including tripple a battery, portable holster w/ vibrate notifictions, confortable fit, 99.99.
So far the T-Mobile Wings has been a powerful devices. CUrrent glitches are software related and tolerable for time being.
Hard Reset & New "Features"
by Hoiberg - 6/7/07 10:04 AM In reply to: SOFTWARE CHANGES ARENT GLITCHES by bsb4303Hard Reset's are not a solution...
I actually use my device and run Apps on it, I don't have time to constantly re-Sync my device, setup email, or re-install apps.
As far as Windows Update, this would be Updates from Microsoft... if Microsoft published an update for a button on a T-Mob handset, how are they going to know who is who and not push it out to a Cingular customer. I am interested about the new Windows Update piece, but I believe it is only going to update Core OS issues, not Phone Application Functionality. (Example: a new Mobile Live Messenger is released… now you can update your device with Windows Update)
I need updates from T-Mobile.
Changing platforms does leave an expectation for buttons and functions to move.
My issues are obvious issues, not a change to get used to.
I have a "Reply" button in my Calendar Appointment, what do I do with it???? Oh wait, it's Grayed out, I can't use it... Is that a new feature??? No, T-Mobile Programmers missed it. This goes back to proper Testing before release.
I cannot get to Contacts from the Phone App, but I have a Call button, did you just read my post or actually look at your phone and think about it. Let's see, I open my phone to call someone, so I go to open my contacts list, oh wait, I can't. But I have this new handy "Call" button where the Contacts button used to be. Hmmm, if I push the "Call" button, the only real use is to call the last person that called or I called which is displayed... Yes, this indeed is a very useful feature as well. The Green Talk hardware button on the Phone itself does this…
Did they try to use the vCard & vCalendar feature before they shipped it, obviously not...
And the Camera thing, what is probably the one thing Non-Power Users do with a phone.... besides call people... from their contact list... Take Pictures; half the time the Camera App doesn't work... yes, this for certain is another wonderful feature...
All the Software functionality is in T-Mob's hands. Microsoft creates the base CE OS code and passes it to the developers, which would be T-Mobile, the developer then chooses a device from a manufacturer, which would be HTC, then the developer’s custom tailor the CE code to function with the hardware they chose.
Microsoft is responsible for Core Code revisions; it is the responsibility of the developer to provide the update to their customers.
If you got a device directly from HTC, it would not be T-Mob branded with their features and HTC would be responsible for Updates to you.
But in our case, just like the MDA, if we are going to be able to update our MDA's from WM5 to WM6, T-Mob is responsible to provide this update "if they choose to". They don't have to. Sure you can go load a hacked version of WM6 and make it work on the MDA, but you’re on your own for support then.
These "new features" I found are not a WM6 issue, they are T-Mob issues, and they are going to need to update the ROM to fix this. Hard Resets only reset it back to what it looked like when you opened the box.
Sorry for that sarcasm, but these are real problems. I didn't pay $300.00 + 22 month contract to lose functionality... I would be willing to deal with it if T-Mob sponsored the cost, testing a device and reporting errors is fine, it's called "Testing", and granted companies rarely pay people to do this, but they don't charge people to do it. Give me a free Wing and I will report daily testing results...
Chris
HARD RESET IS A SOLUTION IF IT CORRECTS THE ISSUE.
by bsb4303 - 6/7/07 1:26 PM In reply to: Hard Reset & New "Features" by HoibergYou are correct, Windows Update will only update the core Windows Mobile 6.0 Professional software. T-Mobile will publish update packs for the wing as they are available that will address its service specific software. As i stated before, it generally takes 3-6 mths before these software patches are available. They certainly arent ready only after two weeks of launch.
The reply button in your calendar is grayed out because the function is only supported with Microsoft Exchange Server 2007. Previous versions of the exchange server do not support this feature. IF you are not using an exchange server to manage you calendar than this feature will not be available. THis information was detailed in your user manual.
Its unfortunate you are not pleased with the changes in the Phone Porgoram. CONTACTS is not a soft key option, however you can input the characters of the contacts names and it will appear in your dialer on the quick list. There are options on how this feature is handled. YOu can find detailed instruntions on editing the options for this feature in the user manual, which it doesnt seem you read. Personally when Im going to dial a contact I access it via the CONTACT soft key found on the today screen. This will not only give you immediate access to your contact list but also minimize your screen taps to execute this function.
I have had no issue with Vcard on my wing. A reset would have most likely corrected the issue. If resetting your device is a concern for you due to syncing it please know the Windows Live software will sync your contacts and email while mobile. Once you reset the device and get a clean install your device should not revert back to those issues. When running windows update i recommend using via a wireless network such as your home network or a T-Mobile HotSpot.
300.00 is a better price than I got for the device, then again customers always get better prices than we do. Due to your specific tastes as a user Id recommend holding on the purchase of this device until a software patch is published. THough it will not be available as soon as you like, it can be expected withing hte next few months. If you decide to take a total pass on this device, T-Mobiles NEXT GEN services should launch in 2008 which is when we can expect significant hardware changes in the Pocket PC carried by T-Mobile.
But it doesn't correct the issue...
by Hoiberg - 6/7/07 2:42 PM In reply to: HARD RESET IS A SOLUTION IF IT CORRECTS THE ISSUE. by bsb4303As far as the Reply button is concerned, I am connected to Exchange...
And with Calendar Invites, my MDA handled them with a Reply when a meeting Request was sent. The Wing is assuming every Calendar Appointment is a Meeting Request then with what you are saying.
Contacts is a Soft key... mapped to the button below it, the OK button is a hard key. Contacts shows up on the Today screen at the bottom, why is there not a Contacts Button like that in the Phone App?
What good does a Call button do, I can redial by pressing the answer phone hard button or by holding down the answer button on my Bluetooth. The Call button is useless. If it was intentionally done, BAD PROGRAMMING...
I did a Hard Reset on my Wing, the vCard or vCalendar doesn't still doesn't work. How have you tested the vCalendar and vContact? Have you tried sending yourself or another MDA or Wing recipient a vCard or vCalendar via MMS? If you haven't tried this, try it and let me know. When I received a vCard or vCalendar from my wife (MDA), my friend (MDA), it came in to me as a vCard.txt or vCalendar.txt with all the information in the email instead of a vCalendar.vcs or vCard.vcf. It even did it when I sent myself a vCard or vCalendar via MMS... (Get back to me)
I don't Sync with Windows Live, no point, I Sync with Exchange Server (2003), and what good does doing a Windows Live Sync do if I'm sending my wife and appointment or contact??? My Windows Live Account is linked to my Company’s Email Address, not a Hotmail Account. I don't use Hotmail...
Let me also mention that while in any Email or Messaging, I cannot highlight text and scroll to copy and paste the email somewhere either in Word or a Note. This happens in Outlook Email, POP3 email, Text, and MMS... Worked beautifully on the MDA. This one really hurts...
Sent the Wing back today, T-Mob wants me to try another one, going to give it a shot just in case I truly had a hosed device...
You sound like you work for T-Mob btw...
Are you in PDA Support??? I'm actually waiting for them to call me back on these issues and have spent a good 4 hours on the phone working through these issues with several Technicians...
I can see dealing with some problems for a month or so, but I would like to be acknowledged by T-Mob that they see the issue and are going to be putting out a fix. Right now there are no signs of that and they have my phone number and can contact me...
Chris
CORRECTION
by bsb4303 - 6/7/07 2:21 PM In reply to: SOFTWARE CHANGES ARENT GLITCHES by bsb4303CONTACTS BUTTON IS PRESENT IN PHONE PROGRMA WHEN IN CALL STATUS VIEW. This is the same on the MDA.
End the Call... ( No need to yell either...)
by Hoiberg - 6/7/07 3:05 PM In reply to: CORRECTION by bsb4303I know what you're referring to; there are 2 different Phone App Screens now.
The First has a Blue background and that is what comes up if you are not on a call.
The Second has a White background and this is what it switches to from the 1st when you make a call. Yes, this does have a contact button on the screen.
Back it up a step, I want to pull up my Contacts in the Phone App BEFORE I place a call, not during a call, during a call is necessary if you want to conference another person.
Turn on the Wing, Press the Green Phone Hardware Bottom on the bottom left of the Phone and now look for a way to get to Contacts.
I don't care if you can circumvent it by going to Contacts first from the Today screen and then tap and hold and do dial. That is fine for a work around, but if I had an MDA and is transitioning to the Wing (my case), this is a missing feature, and if I am a say.... RAZR user making the decision to go to a more powerful device like the Wing, this is going to leave me scratching my head.
On any phone (non WM) the phone App is the phone, you can get to contacts and select one and go. The Phone App acts as a Virtual Phone for the PPC; call is a "Soft Phone" for discussion purposes... The Contacts need to be accessible within the Soft Phone...
Any feedback on the other items I mentioned in the previous post?
Let me know,
Chris
YES I WORK FOR TMO
by bsb4303 - 6/7/07 3:38 PM In reply to: End the Call... ( No need to yell either...) by HoibergIm a Retail sales rep, data happens to be my specialty. I could probably shine some light on the process for you, it would probably make you feel better at least. Just know that the peopel that are assisting you over the phone are trained to deal with current software and rom versions. they report the issues users like yourself and i find to a more internal department that developes the patches and updates that would adress some of your issues. Honnestly, I have not attempted a vcard since reset, I will before we chat this evening. Ill be online shortly on WIndwos LIve messenger, My id is bsb4303@msn.com. Would love to talk to you more about it then.
Chat at ya soon,
Brett Braswell
SINGED ON AND READY FOR THE NEXT FEW HOURS
by bsb4303 - 6/7/07 4:43 PM In reply to: YES I WORK FOR TMO by bsb4303As far as your calendar goes, once again, this feature is supported by exchange 07, not 03.
This is what you want to do:
EXIT STANDBY> PRESS TALK HARDWARE BUTTON> Press CONTACT SOFT KEY
This is the most practical way to do this:
EXIT STANDBY> Press CONTACT SOFTKEY
See how simple and more direct that is? I mean if you still dont care if there is an easier way to do it than the way you are doing and only perfer the extra command than thats good. However, I seriously doubt something of a "dislike" is going to get attention on a software update like a true software glitch like perhaps your Vcard issues.
Speaking of Vcard I just sent a contact as a vCard to my outlook on my home desktop running VIsta from my wing and it came attached as a .vcf file extension. Again, your rom version at startup doesnt seem to have had a clean install. When they recieve the device back and they run its diagnoses perhaps they will collect enough data to create the patch for it, Though its still early in the game.
Im logged into WIndows Live Messenger (MSN MEssenger) now until around 9PM CST. the email address associated with my ID is bsb4303@msn.com
MY BOSS AND I
by bsb4303 - 6/7/07 5:03 PM In reply to: SINGED ON AND READY FOR THE NEXT FEW HOURS by bsb4303My Boss and I just sent two VCards from his MDA to my Wing. One as a MMS to my cellular number. It did as you mentioned and was in a .txt file extension.
He then sent a VCard to my email address that i have set up one exchange 03 and the attachemtn was in a .vcf file extension.
Yet another issue you were having due to user error. When the Wing sends a SMS or MMS message it is in a rich text format. If you send it to an email address it will use your PCS NUMBER email (2055551234@tmail.net). The message will read in your inbox "This message was sent from a T-Mobile wireless phone." and your attachment will be in .vcf file extension.
Thats two I answered for you. NEXT ONE PLEASE
New Wing Coming...
by Hoiberg - 6/11/07 5:16 AM In reply to: MY BOSS AND I by bsb4303I have a new Wing coming.
Chris
All done, T-Mo ________ the pooch on this one...
by Hoiberg - 6/16/07 4:06 PM In reply to: MY BOSS AND I by bsb4303Well, I sent my Wing back within my 14 days and T-Mo wanted me to try another one which I was willing to do...
They sent me a used one... (Which means I'm not the 1st to return mine.)
I called in and told them what happened; they apologized and sent out another.
Again, another used one arrived... I'm all done. I sent it back; I'm going back to my MDA.
As far as the MMS and Rich text thing, that is an ISSUE, it worked before; if it doesn't work, it shouldn't let you even attempt to do it.
I MMS Vcards and VCalendars all the time, if the Wing can't do it, it just means it's not replacing my MDA.
As far as the Contacts thing you mentioned further up, I don't have a Wing anymore, so I can't try it.
And if you want to solve anymore of the problems I had, look up my previous comments.
One of them is a memory leak... sound familiar, what I just got a notification from mymobile911.com, apparently I'm not the only one suspecting memory leaks:
http://www.mymobile911.com/dnn/Home/tabid/36/EntryID/54/Default.aspx#Comments
Everyone, have fun with your Wings, I'm getting my $300.00 back and having the 22 month commitment to service removed from my account.
Hope this helped someone, on to bigger and better things...
THREE MISTAKES
by bsb4303 - 6/18/07 7:33 AM In reply to: SINGED ON AND READY FOR THE NEXT FEW HOURS by bsb4303MISTAKE A - Expecting a new device to work the same as your current.
MISTAKE B - Not reading your user manual to correctly operate your device so you know what is and what isnt a glitch.
MISTAKE C - Sending your original Wing back in the first place.
If your posts on this forum is anything like your opening to tech support im sure you were ill advised to try another device. A - The issues you were complaing about werent a glitch yet you insisted otherwise and B - You were unwilling to read your manual. C - You were unwilling to troubleshoot (Hard Reset). What more can a tech support rep do but advise you to send it back for another one. And of course they sent you one allready opened. There are many of you, there always is, sending in devices that are perfectly fine that are returned due to simple poor consumer behavior. Your better off to stick with your MDA, looks like anything new and different is not something your looking for anyway.
My Wing that ive had since May 18th is working beautifully. Inriching my dail communications in ways the MDA just... dont. But the MDA is a great phone, first one I kept for more than three months in the past six years. Its safe to say your in good hands with the MDA. And once the phone is credited back to your accoutn and its all reversed, you will be able to order a new Wing at the same deal and not worry about getting one allready opened. YOu got the one allready opened b.c it was done as an exchanged. I could have advised you one it if you had let me known. You still have my contact info so feel free anytime.
Lowering my Expectations for the future from T-Mo
by Hoiberg - 6/18/07 1:32 PM In reply to: THREE MISTAKES by bsb4303I've used Mobile devices for years, and this one is the first I've sent back.
A-I will lower my expectations in the future
B-PDA Support must not have read the manual either then
C-What should have done with it, waited 6 months for a patch, I did the reset before I sent it back, and problems still existed.
My opening with tech support was helpful and out of concern. I offered them to work with someone, but I was told all they could do was report my issues. And all 3 I talked to agreed my problems were issues. So that would lead me to believe that based on your comments, they all failed to read their manual too...
I did troubleshoot, and I did reset before I sent it back...
I understand the T-Mo "send your original phone back and never get a new one again" underlying policy, I expressed this concerned and I was assured it would not happen and since I was within 14 days, I would get a new one.
After 2 previously opened devices were sent I did exactly what I was prepared to do when I initially sent the first back, "Here, take it back, if I want to try the Wing again, I'll do it a couple months from now and get a new device then."
I trusted the Customer Service at T-Mo twice that I would get a new device; my trust in T-Mo to tell the truth is what I am upset about.
Thanks,
Chris
Wing is great
by punkzanyj - 9/26/07 10:30 AM In reply to: T-Mobile Wing and Win Mobile 6 by lettuce1001I got a T-Mobile Wing about a week ago and have only run into very mild problems.
The screen is a bit slow switching from portrait to landscape. Considering this is a small computer in my hand, I don't much mind. Even my brand new Sony Vaio has to pause for a moment to make a display settings adjustment. No big deal.
I could never get the IM client to completely close. It would show up in the task manager and trying to "Stop" or "stop all" never made it stop. Even using the connection manager to turn off the phone service, wifi and bluetooth didn't fix the issue. A soft reset was the only fix. Considering i'm not likely to really use the IM client (it doesn't have google talk, which I sometimes use) I just uninstalled it.
The contacts issue hoiberg talked about, to me, sounds like nitpicking.
I've had 4 nokias and one motorola over the past 7 years and all of them did the same thing. Pushing the green call button brings up recent calls, or recently dialed numbers. That's exactly what the Wing does too.
All of these phones had softkey contact buttons that are on the main menu screen. The Wing does as well.
I guess I don't understand Hoiberg's need to hit the green phone key first, and then look for contacts. It's an old habit from his MDA days, but considering that the contacts are now front and center on the Today screen, why not just start there? The beauty of this PDA is that you don't have to switch to Virtual Phone FIRST before using phone features, it's all integrated. As a matter of fact it didn't even occur to me that the phone is just a sub-program, a virtual phone program. Obviously it is, but I just treated my PDA as a phone with lots of computer features. Not a PDA that has a virtual phone feature.
Perhaps more consumers think like I do. I see a contacts button, I want to look through it to make a call, so I push "contacts" find the person, then hit the green call button. Obviously that's my preference, it seems rather intuitive from my point of view. From a usability standpoint ( I work for a customer service consulting firm) it makes sense to put the contacts on the main menu, rather than bury it in the virtual phone.
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