Home audio & video: TrueHD and DTS-HD with non-supporting Receivers
TrueHD and DTS-HD with non-supporting Receivers
by bevillan - 6/5/07 9:12 AMI have a Onkyo receiver that doesn't support the TrueHD or DTS-HD sound modes, but I am under the impression that I can set my receiver to "Direct" which basically shuts down most of the sound decoding and sends a signal to my speakers from how it was received from my HD-DVD add-on for my 360.
I guess I just want to verify that setting my receiver to Direct is a better way to play TrueHD and DTS-HD soundtracks on movies than say setting it to DD or DTS.
I'm not
by jostenmeat - 6/5/07 9:36 AM In reply to: TrueHD and DTS-HD with non-supporting Receivers by bevillansure that it matters. What receiver do you have? The new codecs need to be decoded. ben was saying that using the optical cable (coax too?) drastically increased the quality (double?) of codecs such as dts-hd, if NOT the full potential.
If you have hdmi on your receiver, then you *may* be able to extract pcm.
If you have multi-ch inputs, you could buy a player with the new decoding abilites, once they come out, with no need for it on the receiver. Of course, not sure that Microsoft ever will... gl.
PCM
by bevillan - 6/5/07 11:30 AM In reply to: I'm not by jostenmeatI have the Onkyo TX-SR803 and it has a HDMI switcher in it (not 1.3 though). I guess my issue here is that I am thinking about getting a Blu-ray player to go along with my HD-DVD add-on for the 360 and want to know if I can get good use out of the advanced sound modes that are starting to trickle out.
If I hook a Blu-ray player up to my receiver via HDMI, should I be able to extract PCM via an optical cable?
um
by jostenmeat - 6/5/07 1:42 PM In reply to: PCM by bevillanno, you can't get pcm via anything besides hdmi, as far as I know. However, if you have zero decoding abilities anywhere, the optical will still allow improved audio, just not the maximum as I stated in my last post.
Im not sure about your receiver, but the newest 805 handles AND can process lossless pcm. The 604 or better, for instance, can handle 5.1 pcm but cannot apply processing, such as matrixing into extra rear channels, or selectTHX stuff. STILL, the difference should be dramatic, to say the least. (Do you run 5.1 or 7.1?). If 5.1, I wouldnt care then.
The benefits of the new formats compared to pcm, is that they can get great audio in less space, using algorithms- as far as I've come to understand.
To be absolutely sure yours can handle 5.1 pcm, Id contact Onkyo, or ask at AVS, or both.
Worst case scenario, just wait until new players have decoding built-in for DTS-MA, DTS-HD, and TrueHD, and simply connect multi channel analog interconnects. Easy. That's what I will do in the future, if I never upgrade my pre/pro.
The only thing I will be concerned with, is how good the quality of audio is from the player. If I had to absolutely buy one today, it would be a Panny blu-ray for the superior audio, and 7.1 ch analog outs.
as far as I can tell, hdmi is totally overrated. does that help?
Two things...
by ..ben - 6/5/07 2:21 PM In reply to: TrueHD and DTS-HD with non-supporting Receivers by bevillanFor DTS-HD, using regular old optical and the DTS decoder on your receiver will yield improved 5.1 sound, making use of a 1.5 Mbps signal instead of the usual 768kbps. I'm pretty sure you'll get no such benefit with Dolby TrueHD.
If you buy an HD player that has built-in decoders, you can send your receiver decoded 7.1 PCM via HDMI and you'll be able to enjoy all the benefits of the new codecs. All versions of HDMI support 8 channels of 192kbps audio. HDMI 1.3 is unique because it supports the compressed audio; the older versions cannot.
What you wrote regarding "Direct" and stuff... isn't correct. Sorry.
Your best bet is probably to wait the price of players with built-in decoders to drop. In the meantime, if you're eager to start building your HD movie collection, opt for DTS-HD soundtracks if you can. It's the best you can do (for now). Maybe even return the HD-DVD player if you are going to get a stand-alone anyway, put the money towards that instead...
Best,
Ben
ben
by jostenmeat - 6/5/07 2:43 PM In reply to: Two things... by ..benbeen a while. Hey, am I hopefully correct that once players come out with built in decoding, that multi analog outs will do the trick? As in, I can enjoy all the new codecs? please say yes, please say yes, please say yes, please say yes . . .
hey, you ever make those fiberglass bass traps??
...
by ..ben - 6/8/07 3:30 PM In reply to: ben by jostenmeatYes. 
8-ch outs or HDMI (any version) will work for you if the Player has built-in decoders.
(no on the bass traps, though. see below.)
You just made my freaking day
by jostenmeat - 6/8/07 3:34 PM In reply to: ... by ..benNote my reply below as well.
thanks, both of you
by bevillan - 6/5/07 2:47 PM In reply to: Two things... by ..benI emailed Onkyo and they said that my receiver can take 7.1 PCM, just I have to set my DVD/Blu-ray/HD-DVD player to output in "PCM" rather than "Digital Audio Out" and make sure I am using a HDMI connection.
And thanks for telling me that the "Direct" soundmode thing I was talking about won't work for what I want.
After seeing that $499 new Sony Blu-ray player for sale I think I will get it instead of a PS3.
At least I don't have to worry about upgrading to the TX-SR805 to get use out of the DTS-HS/TrueHD soundmodes when I get the BR player.
I just wish I could set my 360 to PCM.
Wouldn't it be great...
by lastostyle - 6/5/07 11:23 PM In reply to: Two things... by ..benIf you could connect your receiver to your PC and update the software on the reciever to read new codecs such as the new DTS-HD/TrueHD. But then I suppose people, like me, wouldn't be going out to buy a new receiver. Capitalism...isn't it great haha.
when
by jostenmeat - 6/6/07 11:36 AM In reply to: Wouldn't it be great... by lastostylewill the PC itself have the decoders? When will movies and music simply be bought on USB sticks? I wonder.
WHY ARE YOU ALL STRESSING ABOUT P.C.M?
by stewart norrie - 6/6/07 11:53 AM In reply to: when by jostenmeatYes I have the new Sony Blue Ray player using h.d.m.i. straight to t.v. and optical cable direct to my Denon old 3805 When I select d.t.s. 7.1 ext on the disk The sound is almost scarry its so good I really dont see how p.c.m. could be any better than that. stewee
stewie
by jostenmeat - 6/6/07 12:02 PM In reply to: WHY ARE YOU ALL STRESSING ABOUT P.C.M? by stewart norrieI don't think you have any ability to decode Dts-Hd, or Dts-MA. If you haven't heard it, I wouldn't say it can't get any better. PCM is essentially ideal, because its uncompressed. The new formats are compressed, yet still lossless. Problem is pcm takes up too much disc space, hence the need for the new codecs. This is my understanding so far.
*sigh*
by ..ben - 6/8/07 3:16 PM In reply to: stewie by jostenmeatI've been subtly trying to point this out in several threads... Guess I was too subtle.
Stewie, with speakers like yours, I think you'll notice a difference.
And Meat (hi, ), you're spot on. Well, if my understanding is correct. 
I must be doing something wrong with the fiberglass, measured no different (with long strips in the back two corners). And then I stuffed a love seat in too, now it's all jagged again. 
I figured it would help, not hurt. More better for the girl, though, which means more better for me...
hey ben
by jostenmeat - 6/8/07 3:28 PM In reply to: *sigh* by ..benTo take it further, I fully expect the difference in sound to be much more of a dramatic difference than say 720p to 1080p. This quote is from a Panasonic rep: "At a 12 foot distance if you have perfect 20/20 vision your eyes could only realize a maximum resolution around 1066x600 on any 50” set".
Otoh, lossless audio can be appreciated from any distance in most living rooms. Since its lossless, the lowest common denominator becomes the skill of those working in the recording/mixing studios. Hows that for technology?!?!
ben, I ran into this thread the other day and thought of you. Just something to reference in the future if you want. Glad that the girl is happy who makes you happy. "If she's happy, everyone is happy" lol
http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=3010
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