Community Newsletter: Q&A: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade
- 5/31/07 4:54 PM
HOW TO KNOW.
by dalegraves - 5/12/07 6:17 PM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: make a list. Actually two lists: one of what is currently installed, the other what you ordered to BE installed.
IF you are really paranoid, write down the individual serial numbers.
However it sounds like you want guarantees with no effort on your part. Sorry, won't happen in this life.
If you can't tell, then you don't need it.
by unknown55 - 5/27/07 9:27 PM In reply to: HOW TO KNOW. by dalegravesIf you can't even tell if someone didn't put in what you told them to, then you obviously do not know anything about the component that is being installed, and thus DO NOT need it. I can understand that some people might have fried their motherboard, and don't know how to fix it, but if all you need is some more ram, or a new graphics card, and you can't put that in yourself, then you don't need it. And anyone who's trying to upgrade a MAC, should just kill themselves for buying one.
How NOT to get ripped off...
by Wolfie2k5 - 5/12/07 6:17 PM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
John,
For what it's worth, MOST stores are going to be honest for the most part about this sort of thing. There may, however, sometimes be issues when you take a box in for service and MIGHT not get quite the box you took in.
Case in point: You have an older computer - one that's say 3 - 4 years old and some component is failing - say, a video card. Your computer's motherboard has an 8x AGP based bus. At the time you built this computer, you paid good money for a particular video card but now, 3+ years later, that particular vendor is no longer in business or the specific model of card in question is obsolete and an exact replacement can't be found. Now at this point, if the computer repair place is honest, they will probably call you on the phone and get further instructions as to what you want them to do about it. More often than not, they'll recommend a replacement card they have in stock or can get ahold of easily. Chances are it may not, however, be an exact match for the one being replaced. It may be better than the one in the box or then again, it may not.
Before taking the computer anywhere - the FIRST thing to do is BACK UP YOUR DATA! Of course, if your computer won't boot any more, then this bit of advice is a day late and a dollar short.
So how does one NOT get ripped off?
1.) The first too in your arsenal is to KNOW YOUR HARDWARE!
Unfortunately, for the vast majority of people (read: those who aren't enthusiasts) probably wouldn't know a CPU chip from a RAM chip. And quite frankly could care less what the exact particulars are as long as it does what they want and expect it to do. Unless they're into gaming, they might not even notice a degrade in video performance. If this describes you, your best bet is to get some help from the geek in the family or the one down the street.
It's best to know what you've got on the before side of the picture. A trip through the Device Manager (right-click on My Computer, select Manage and the Device Manger item on the left hand tree of the computer managment console.). Go through each item on the tree and see what you've got for each component. Write this info down somewhere. If you've got an AMD Athlon XP 2100+ processor, make a note of it. If you've got 512 MB RAM, write that down too. Keep going through the main sections. Don't worry too much about external devices - such as printers, external hard drives, other things plugged in via USB.
2.) When you go into a place, get a feel for the guys working behind the counter. If you're taking it to a small shop, look around and ask questions. If the guy seems to know what he's talking about, and MOST importantly, you feel comfortable with dealing with the guy, by all means, proceed with getting your computer repaired. However, if you've got a nagging feeling in the back of your head, or you feel the slightest doubt that the guy's honest OR if he's jumping the gun and telling you that you really need to dump everything and Upgrade! UPGRADE! UPGRADE! then you just might want to go elsewhere. This guy's got only ONE thing on his mind - and it isn't your best interest.
If you're taking the computer to a big named store, odds are the guy may NOT know a CPU from a hole in the ground. Big name stores tend to hire people who will work for less money. More often than not, they will hire younger people who at best, know enough about computers to be slightly dangerous - in other words, they can install basic hardware upgrades, but they're not quite able to diagnose or fix anything serious. When it comes to handling serious problems, they will take custody of your computer, give you a claim check/repair order, tell you it will take some time to get the machine looked at and fixed and send you home. If you happen to have a warranty (extended or otherwise), you may (or may not) also be given the option of getting a loaner computer for the duration. They will generally then send your computer to a larger facility that does repairs for all of the stores in a given area.
The downside to the big named store is that they generally tend to take a really, REALLY long time getting things fixed and back to you. And even then, there still might be issues that never quite get resolved.
Case in point: A colleague of mine has a client who bought a computer from Fry's Electronics complete with a 5 year extended warranty. About 4 years and 6 months into the warranty, the computer was no longer able to access the guy's network. So, they took it into Fry's for service - FIVE times. Each time, they would take the machine in, get the repair order, get a loaner, and wait SIX weeks only to get the computer back, allegedly fixed and yet, it STILL didn't work properly. A call to the tech support area at Compaq determined the problem was most likely a motherboard issue and it would have to be replaced. Each time, however, the techs at Fry's simply replaced the network card and sent it back. On the fifth and final time they took the thing in, Fry's actually lost the entire machine. They wound up giving him a brand new one.
Had the guy NOT bought the extended warranty, my colleague could have diagnosed the problem, replaced the motherboard with a new one and the guy could have been back up and running in a day or two at the most. As it was, it took 5 trips to the store, 6 weeks between dropping it off and getting it back - for a total of 30 odd weeks. That's more than 6 months. Ultimately, yes, he got some satisfaction out of it BUT he had to put in some serious effort on his part to get it.
3.) ASK AROUND! Ask your friends who have computers where they take their computer issues. Chances are, if they've had problems in the past, they can steer you to good, reliable vendors and away from those who aren't.
4.) Dirty Trick: Use the old "drop of nail polish on the components" bit. If your options are limited and the only game in town is someone you aren't 100% comfortable with, here's a trick that's been around the block a few times. Buy yourself a small bottle of nail polish. The color doesn't really matter as long as it's not clear. (You want the mark to be visible.) Simply open up your case and put a very small drop of the polish on each component - making sure you're NOT putting it on any of the metal legs where parts are soldered onto the motherboard. You do NOT want to compound your problems by shorting something out. A small drop on the edge of your motherboard, sticks of RAM, CPU fan, hard drives, any cards plugged into the computer, etc... will suffice. It doesn't have to be obviously placed as long as you can remember where you put them.
Close the case and take it in for service. When you get it back, you can pop the case open again and look for the drops of nail polish. If something was swapped out that shouldn't have been, you can nail the guy for making unauthorized changes.
There are occasions when this trick won't work. If for whatever reason, the techs decide that your computer can't be repaired and is still under warranty, they may opt to give you a refurbished model that is at the very least, equal to or (preferrably) better than what you walked in with.
Some companies routinely skip trying to figure out what's wrong with the computer and directly issue a replacement. In a situation like this, you will most certainly need to take a few extra steps to make sure you don't lose anything important. (You DID back everything up - Right?)
Case in point: Sony VAIO laptops. About a year or so ago, one of my clients had a problem with his laptop. One of the keys on the keyboard went missing. To get it fixed, Sony's techs told me they would simply swap the laptop out. I could NOT buy a replacement keyboard from them at ANY price. They informed me that any upgrade, namely additional RAM, would NOT be included in the replacement laptop. Furthermore, the data on the hard drive would likewise be lost. Not to mention, if you changed the partitions on the laptop, they would be MOST unhappy. If you upgrade the OS (the one in question came with Windows ME and was upgraded to XP.), you were likewise outta luck - the replacement will the orignal OS - Windows ME on it.
In other words, they want the laptop shipped back to them EXACTLY as they sold it. Upgrades and embellishments are heavily frowned upon. Makes you wonder exactly WHO owns the laptop - you or Sony...?
5.) IF you can, get ahold of any and all serial numbers associated with the hardware inside your computer. Sometimes, however, this would require taking the computer apart. Once again, if you're not comfortable doing this, get someone to help you out. This would include, most importantly, the product key for your copy of Windows from the sticker on the side/back/top/bottom of the computer. As with the nail polish trick, make a list ahead of time and compare it with the computer you get back. Note any discrepancies and demand an explanation.
6.) Above all... Be sure to request ALL of your old parts back. Just as if you were taking your car in for service, you have the rights to get all of your old components back. Make sure you explain this to them when you take the computer in and BEFORE you sign the work order. Better still, make sure that information is written legibly on the work order so the techs know to save the parts and get them back to you. If you don't tell them to do so, odds are they will dispose of the evidence. If they balk at the idea of getting the replaced parts back to you, you might consider going elsewhere.
7.) A Picture is worth a 1000 words... Take pictures of the insides of your computer. Make sure you've got plenty of light, use a flash if needed. Make sure the pictures are crystal clear. If you notice anything odd - like your formerly green motherboard is now royal purple, or the big old honkin' fan on your video card is different, you know what to do - especially when you took the computer in for something else.
Wolfie is right on correct
by wmarr - 5/26/07 4:14 AM In reply to: How NOT to get ripped off... by Wolfie2k5I personally run a small(very small) computer repair shop. I am the tech. I am customer service/you name it. The shop is in my home. I fix the ones those "big store rippoff artists" can't or won't fix. A recent experience taught me a lot about big store warranty's.
A client had purchased a new PC. It came with XP home( he thought it was the OEM version- so he bought the system - he was sold and was even sucked into purchasing the extended warranty).
Ok. The machine started acting up, not doing what he and his wife wanted it to do.So he unplugged it, drove a few miles to the store where he purchased it. They kept it for a week, they called him to let him know it was ready. He drove back, took the computer home and within a week it had the same problem. He did this FOUR times.
He found out about me, let me come to his home, diagnose the problem and I took his computer home to my shop. I Fixed it.
Those "geniuses" had the drive jumpers all wrong, and get this... the install key on the machine did not match the tag on the back of the unit. And to top it all off, niether were legit! And the XP platform, was only the UPGRADE edition not OEM. I examined the hardware, took a virual snapshot, backed up all his data, wiped the drive clean, reinstalled OEM XP, and had to do some smooth talking to microsoft to validate the install and to also get the updates. But it all worked out. Once I was finished and it was up and running perfectly, I made sure that it would do what the client was trying to do when the problem had started. It worked flawlessly. I then took another snapshot, burned a bootable image for full recovery,and then put his data back on. I copy the data back, just in case something unforseen happens and let the client know this. I keep the backup and call one week later to ensure that I can delete the backup (need the room).
I spoke with the client the other day, and he stated that it is still working perfectly.
But if your machine won't boot, not all is lost. The data can still be recovered (ok, sometimes) but those shops won't put any effort in to do that. They hire cheap flunkies who know just enough to make themselves dangerous.
getting info from device manager
by lhsmayer - 5/28/07 12:42 AM In reply to: How NOT to get ripped off... by Wolfie2k5Instead of writing down the components from Device Manager, you have the option of printing the information from the menu bar on the top.
You didnt explain something well enuff
by Ravage777 - 5/31/07 12:51 AM In reply to: How NOT to get ripped off... by Wolfie2k5Well bud it was a nice long post but you didnt include what to do when the manager after you seek to confront because they swapped your 240 gig. sata with an 120 gig ide drive just plain says its "not possible for my employees to do something like this".You ask why is it not possible because it did occur.Then the manager says "Because its just not possible i know my employees".Then he refuses to do anything about it,much less do an investigation or confront any employees.
This happened to me which is why my drive at this moment is an 120 gig ide and not a 240 gig sata as it shuld be.
I told the manager i had proof of documentation from purchase and ownership of the other drive and he said simply "How do i know thats the documentation for the drive that you claim was installed?"
I dont see any way of prooving what your hardware is when you take it in that will legally stand up that any company i know of actually does.You see it was a compusa that did this to me and my suspicion is one of the high scool tech guys they got running the show decicded to switch my drive with one of thiers from home thereby getting a free upgrade thinking i wouldnt notice since i have more than one drive.
You can reply if you want but its no biggie.just wanted to show that your method is far from bulletproof because from personall experience the argument that what you say you had and you prooving that that statement is true is an undefeatable startegy to ripp you off and you having absolutely no re-course.
Ravage777
Reply to protect your computer being swamped or canabalised
by msnraju - 5/12/07 9:08 PM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sir,
Your problem is confronted by almost most users. Either you should have faith in your service engineer, or you should get all your problems solved by your own efforts. The second option seems to be more apt than completely relying on your service engineer. For fulfilling the second option, You should get some basic training from a reliable hardware institution, then you may gradually get your problems solved. In fact when I got this system, I was not knowing A,B,C of computer. Even I was afraid of switching it on. However, as time passed, I acaquaired some knowledge and I am able to manage most of the problems. A stock example, is that my system was attacked by SPYWARE and though I spent lot of money to get this problem solved, all proved vain. Finally, only a reliable person could solve this. Now I have downloaded CNET antivirus and Spyware remover, and this has solved the problem. I wish You follow the same. With regards,
M.S.NATARAJAN
Reply to protect your computer being swamped or canabalised
by hgaudini - 5/26/07 8:38 AM In reply to: Reply to protect your computer being swamped or canabalised by msnrajuHi,
Not such great advise for the average Joe. Most people don't want to learn to repair computers, they just want them to work.
You bring your car to the Dealer or your local mechanic. If you don't like the service or don't trust them, are you going to invest the time to learn to become an auto mechanic??? I don't think so. Again, most people could care less about learning how to fix these problems, that's why they pay us.
Bottom line, you never know what your going to get, and if the person knows how to actually diagnose/repair a problem, or if they are just a parts swapper.
Your best bet is to ask around, friends, co-workers, relatives, etc. Find out whom they use, and if they had good results, give them a try.
I would also stay away from Geeksquad, Firedog, and most of the other big guys, since they hire cheap labor, to fill staffing positions, and don't want to pay for a real technician.
Good luck with your repair.
H
Learning to help yourself.
by coureurd - 5/28/07 5:18 AM In reply to: Reply to protect your computer being swamped or canabalised by hgaudiniDon't discount this possibilty. If you know even something about what's going on, it helps.
When I was young, I was forced to learn auto mechanics by reading, trial & error & talking to people who knew. I didn't have much money, and got ripped off too many times.
Of course, todays cars, like today's computers are getting much more complex.
I agree learn to help yourself
by YNAUDI - 5/28/07 9:48 PM In reply to: Learning to help yourself. by coureurdI wasnt computer smart until one day I wanted to replace my cd rom to a cd writer, when I went to one of the major computer stores they wanted too much money to replace it (which I comtemplated) until one of the worker told me it was too simple a procedure to waste my money. After that I got familiar with my PC... I good book I found which helps maintain your PC is titled Enchanced PC troubleshooting Pocket Guide by Jean Andrews... this book tells you what sort of problems you are having by the number of beeps etc.... Just sunday when I turned on the PC I heard one beep, I pulled out my book and it said its the video card... so I opened her up and took out the card, I smelt fried....so I took it to a big computer store and asked them (to make sure) what could be the problem... one told me it WAS the card another tech said it could be a number of things the card the memory... so I took my chances and brought a new card, once installed (I did it myself)... It worked great...and all Im out is the price of the card...I was able to complete my project I was working on. PC Knowledge is PC power.
I agree for the most part with hgaudini
by softwarecritic - 5/29/07 11:06 AM In reply to: Reply to protect your computer being swamped or canabalised by hgaudiniI handle a good many of my own repairs such as adding memory, replacing PCI boards, etc. but am not as agile as I once was. When I get in a real bind I use the local Mobile Computer Doctors LLC franchise. They are very good techies and are honest.
As for the Geek Squad - forget them. They wanted $35 for adding memory to a friend's laptop which was about as easy as replacing razor blades.
Computer Hardware
by shamarcus - 5/12/07 9:11 PM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
To be safe, the best thing is to learn to upgrade your own hardware. If that is not your thing, then you will have to open up the case and either mark each circuit board component with a maker or inventory the brand and model of each component. Also you can print out your overview from your control panel systems menu.
How can you tell that your existing hardware are still the o
by Grey Swede - 5/12/07 9:17 PM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Use Belarc Advisor to give you an explicit description of your existing hardware. After the shop completes "updating" your PC, run Belarc Advisor again and compare descriptions.
Use Sandra
by DavidHimself - 5/12/07 11:03 PM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sandra, from SiSoftware, will tell you the make and version of just about all of the hardware installed on your machine. And the Lite version is free.
Sandra Lite will not tell you the memory manufacturer. I don't know of any program that will. You can look inside, but there is nothing to say they didn't just slap a name brand sticker on a cheap stick. Anybody that greedy is probably doing all kinds of nasty and stupid stuff, for which they will get caught sooner or later.
Dave
My SiSoft Sandra Shows Memory Chip Mnfgtr, Just FYI...
by Aardasp - 5/27/07 1:17 PM In reply to: Use Sandra by DavidHimselfMy SiSoft Sandra Shows Memory Chip Mnfgtr, Just FYI..., I am using the professional version which lists:Bank 1 - DIMM_1 : Nanya NT1GT64U8HA1BY-3C A810247C DIMM Synchronous DDR-SDRAM 1GB/64 @ 667Mt/s
Bank 3 - DIMM_1 : Nanya NT1GT64U8HA1BY-3C A810247C DIMM Synchronous DDR-SDRAM 1GB/64 @ 667Mt/s ...etc... just FYI. 
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