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Community Newsletter: Q&A: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade
- 5/31/07 4:54 PM
existing hardware are still the ooriginal ?
by dkb - 5/12/07 6:31 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
There is a free program ‘siw’. I have downloaded it frpm http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4387.html. This program gives everything. I have yet to see any other program of this versatility /depth.
Before one goes for upgrade one must run siw and create a log file (File Menu/create a log file). And after upgrade run siw again and make log file again and compare the two log files.
This is how I would do. There could be better ways than this also but I do not know?
Upgrading
by valet_cruise - 5/12/07 6:34 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The best way to know what was installed is to learn to install the items yourself.
Advice
by pnonma - 5/12/07 6:56 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
That question depends on how you specify what parts you want. If you say specifically "this part number from this manufacturer", figuring out if they really got that part is simple. Find a reference image of that part online and compare it to the inside of your case. Sites like Newegg or TigerDirect usually have images for anything they carry, and those are good sites to estimate the wholesale prices they're probably getting their parts from so you know about what the parts should cost.
However, if you only say "I want it to do this", or "it needs this much RAM", it's a matter of double-checking within your copy of Windows. Your system settings (right-clicking "My Computer" and selecting "Properties) tells you the basics. Run a benchmark program to verify your performance , as most advanced programs can find out what parts you use when they start up. This can also catch poorly refurbished products, as they sometimes dip in performance when compared to what you should be getting out of a new part.
Insofar as making sure they don't swipe your existing hardware, that's easy. I would take a sharpie and put a small dot in an inconspicuous part of each component you are worried about, not on any of the circuitry, but near the edges of the board.
Personally, I've found that it's often far cheaper and more rewarding to do the work yourself. Sure, you have to put a lot of research into it if you want it done right, but you end up with four benefits: You know EXACTLY what parts are installed and thus what performance to expect, you don't have to pay someone $60 an hour to do potentially very easy work, you eventually gain the ability to diagnose problems yourself instead of relying on others for it, and you have the 'cool factor' of being able to tell your friends "I built it myself."
Why Do people Go to A shop for Upgrade?
by callancool - 5/26/07 4:38 PM In reply to: Advice by pnonmaYears ago, 30+ to be precise my best friend took his Fiat 500 to the local dealer, for it to be returned in a worse state. They told him they had to fit a new part because it was impossible to repair the old one. 3 or 4 garages later, in an attempt to get to the roo,the car was looked over by technicians direct from FIAT UK itself (not a dealer) who asked him when he fitted a new engine. He told them he hadn't, and was told the car had a new engine fitted (had been bought from nearly new). He told them about the dealer, and the Fiat techs said the part could have been repaired. If the car hadn't been into other garages the dealer would have lost his dealership. Now my friend did most of his own maintenance and repairs, so why did he go to a dealer? The simple answer was that this one, though not beyond his expertise, needed tools only a garage would have, and as the dealer had the parts wheras a non dealer would have to order parts in meant the car would be fixed much quicker.
So what's all this to do with a computer forum? Many people have been suggesting do the work yourself, but for most computer owners the work is beyond them. Myself, I can fit a CD drive, memory or an add on card, and memory, install Windows, but as to processors and clock speeds, or even bios updates, and replacing a motherboard or building a system from scratch, then it's beyond my expertise. As I suspect it is for the original poster. When I bought my first proper PC, I took it to a dealer to have a CD rom I bought fitted. I was ripped off twice by being coerced into taking the drive I bought back for a refund, and paying a lot to have a compatible drive fitted. My PC didn't have screw holes in the same place as the drive I'd bought, and they advised if they drilled holes in that filings might fall on the board and cause a short. When the drive failed in warranty, they replaced the 4X drive with a 16X drive charging me extra for a drive the probably paid the same for. On another occasion they advised that if I reinstalled Win 3x myself I could risk damaging the hard drive, whilst they could do it guaranteed for a fee. Another reputable firm told me it wasn't the case and I could do it myself, which I did. Luckilly the shop went bust soon after (telling me they would take my 1994 486 25mhz as part ex plus a lot of cash for an older 486 33mhz, plus offering New PC's at tempting bargain prices provided you paid cash upfront and waited a month or more til other people did the same so they could buy the parts in bulk dirt cheap wasn't a good business move).
But clueless people will always need technicians, which is why there are so many car garages about, and why both they and the big PC chains get away with charging an arm and a leg for repairs, upgrades and installing software. As many have suggested, installing a programme to monitor hardware and software is a good idea.
Also, a motherboard change will nesseccitate Win XP or vista requiring reactivation, so if you get an unregistered or not genuine Windows error, this is a clue. Microsoft should hold details of reactivations, so any reactivation date should pinpoint things to when it was in for repair. Take a friend to the store with you as a witness of the date it went in, and get a signed and dated receipt as well as proof. -a friend of mine owned a PC recycling business and a couple of years back sold me a Compaq Small Form Factor base unit for a bargain £15 UKP($30 )The Cd was faulty, and despite fitting two all faulty (which was why I think the units had been sent for recycling as they were reasopnable spec). I left it in until he could source another drive (somewhere over the rainbow.......), but in the meantime he sold the business and the new owner moved 40 miles away and I don't drive. To get there would have cost more than what I bought the PC for.
Yep, it's buyer beware, so if you can't fit it yourself, ask around to find a reputable firm, and do as I've suggested. And if things do go wrong Here in the UK we have council run Trading Standards departments in every town and City, and the USA and Europe should have similar departments as well.
Happy computing.
Upgrade Equipment Info
by tosim91 - 5/12/07 7:12 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
One quick thing you can do is to go to "belarc.com" and download, and run, the advsor. Among many other very informatioal items, it will list the equipment installed.
Sure you can tell . . . . . . . .
by tech_no_man - 5/12/07 7:40 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
First of all go to: http://www.belarc.com/
They have a system inventory program, that will list were it can every card. Your motherboard/mainboard, hard disc drives, CD DVD/CD ROM's and burners, floppy, other storage device (such as flash drives, IOMega's). How many memory modules, what slots they are in so on so forth. Software and if it has a product number associated with it, even that is recorded. What version Windows operating system even an update number, what updates to the version of Windows you have. This information is displayed on a html page in your default browser, that can be printed out. Which is what should be done. Print up a couple of these listings.
Being as you are taking the computer in to be upgraded instead of you doing the upgrade yourself (yourself is the cheapest way to upgrade). It isn't going to be easy to tell, but it can be done.
Flashlight
Magnifying Glass
Portable Ultra Violet Light source
Invisible Ink Marker
Before you even take your computer to be upgraded do the following:
Take the cover off and one by one take your cards out of their respective slots one at a time, when you are done put it back in and take the next one out. Now you do not have take off any wires leave them on as you are not going to remove them. You are going to record the following;
make
model
serial number from if the cards have serial numbers.
If need be use the magnifying glass and the flashlight to see better.
At this point it would be a good time to use the Invisible Ink marker and mark your initials, or vehicle operator's number. Why the vehicle operators number and not Soc numbers!? Well with identity theft would you use your Soc Numbers? Besides your vehicle operators number does not vary by much from state to state. Mark on a non-conductive surface just to be safe, re-insert the card. Mark your hard drives, do not remove them as they can be real pistols to get back in. Mark on the side or end of the hard drive your initials, same with your CD or CD/DVD ROM's or burners. As far as memory modules go just mark them with the Invisible Ink someplace. Mark someplace on the motherboard/mainboard. Nice thing about Invisible Ink is that it does not show up on the surface to mar it up visibly. After you have marked the surfaces of your parts, check them out with the Ultra Violet light. This is how you would check out your computer after it came back from an upgrade or repair. The replaced part or repair will not have the markings. If parts have been removed and replaced with inferior parts, this is how you would tell. Now with the duplicate inventory listing, indicate where each card or board has been marked with the Invisible Ink, then file it away.
By doing the following you have taken one tooth out of the possibility of being cheated. This is the same technique that investigators use to make sure that the part has been replaced or the repairs are done on an item. If your computer has been stolen it will also come in handy when it is recovered. A caveat here; most home owner's insurance does not cover computers and related equipment. So what you might want to look into is a rider that would cover the computer equipment.
Like the auto repair business, at least in the state of Michigan, the repair service has to return the parts to the customer. The only time they do not is if the part is a core for a rebuilt part or like a transmission, it is too big but has to be seen by the owner to insure it was replaced. Well you can do the same, have the tech show you the parts that were or are replaced. In fact have them return the upgraded cards to you. With Good reason if the upgraded parts fail you have at least a temporary replacement. Unless the tech is going to give you some kind of break by using your part as a trade-in then I would demand that the cards be returned.
It is not that your tech is dishonest, but it will keep him honest. My Uncle had a saying; "Locks are there to keep honest people honest!"
A side note here: Those that are interested in genealogy will recognize what is being said here. The first three numbers on an operators license are what is called "sounddex" numbers, even from state to state. As an example my Michigan operators license has a sounddex of 200. Because my name starts out with "bu", same as the Presidents, which his state of Texas operators number would start out with B200.
"Sure you can tell...", an observation
by exceluser - 5/27/07 6:23 AM In reply to: Sure you can tell . . . . . . . . by tech_no_manI don't disagree with what you are saying - but I marvel that anyone who would disassemble a PC - especially with removing the components one at a time and not "unplugging any wires" would be sending it out for upgrade. Sending it out for service - MAYBE - but certainly, if a user is able to go to the extent this writer suggests, he should be able to "fix" his PC on his own. I know that I do, and my technical expertise is most likely far less than the writer.
I would like to suggest that users will suffer considerably less from "rip-off" than from disregard of installed programs and user data.
Most service technicians have an inborn burning desire to re-format the hard drive and start all over from scratch. They refuse to listen to requests to "ghost" the hard drive - because upon restoration, any virus/trojan/worm will be re-introduced to the hard drive. Okay - so they may have a point - in extreme cases. But to use re-formatting as a blanket approach is the major deterrent to my use of professional help. Think about this - if I - with my limited technical skills - will not succumb to professional "laziness," how many others are doing the same thing - causing the professionals the loss of a lot of business that would otherwise be theirs.
bp
i dont think your correct
by Ravage777 - 5/31/07 1:14 AM In reply to: Sure you can tell . . . . . . . . by tech_no_manWell bud it was a nice long post but you didnt include what to do when the manager after you seek to confront because they swapped your 240 gig. sata with an 120 gig. ide drive just plain says its "not possible for my employees to do something like this".You ask why is it not possible because it did occur.Then the manager says "Because its just not possible i know my employees".Then he refuses to do anything about it,much less do an investigation or confront any employees.
This happened to me which is why my drive at this moment is an 120 gig ide and not a 240 gig sata as it should be.
I told the manager i had proof of documentation from purchase and ownership of the other drive and he said simply "How do i know thats the documentation for the drive that was installed when you brought in the computer?"
I dont see any way of prooving what your hardware is when you take it in that will legally stand up that any company i know of actually does.You see it was a compusa that did this to me and my suspicion is one of the high school tech guys they got running the show decided to switch my drive with one of thiers from home thereby getting a free upgrade thinking i wouldnt notice since i have more than one drive.
You can reply if you want but its no biggie.Just wanted to show that your method is far from bulletproof because from personal experience the argument that what you say you had and you proving that the statement is true is an undefeatable strategy to ripp you off and you having absolutely no re-course.Apparently i realized i have been copy/pasting in the same forum over and over.My point is in court if they say you are lying about that part not being the originall.Unless you can provide proof your not or you get an extremely lenient judgde you dont have a leg to stand on.The only way i see to solve this problem is list all parts by serial number before they work on it at the store and get the store ,yourself and a witness to sighn the form and have a copy yourself.Otherwise they switch your part,say they didnt and theyre isnt anything you can do to prove that your self supplied documentation is truthfull.I skip the whole process now and get in home service so i can watch every step of the process in person.They try to steal something then and theyre in a bad way cuz now theyre in MY' house.And thats a very,very dangerous place to be stealing from...........(especially with me in the general vicinity smoking a ciggarette)
Ravage777
You pick it, You Review it
by rm7065 - 5/12/07 7:50 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Dear John:
I am going to assume that you are taking your PC to a retail place like Best Buy or Circuit City, but this answer applies to practically every other establishment as well. Usually a lot of places let you pick the components you want installed on your PC, so you know before hand what's going inside your box. You, as a customer, have the right to inspect the PC before picking it up from repair or upgrade. Once the upgrade has been completed, do not hesitate to ask them to open up the box and show you the installed components and well and have them save the boxes the components came with. This will assure you that they installed the parts that you picked. If you do not know what parts are needed, you can always Google your PC model or go to the manufacturer's website and review what connections are on the motherboard and what components are compatible. Usually the Best Buy people or Circuit City can tell you what you need but be weary of this, they might always try to up-sell you, so it is best that you do your homework beforehand.
Good Luck, hope this answers your question.
Can't go wrong with Nikon
by NantucketPilot - 5/12/07 7:51 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
You really can't go wrong with Nikon - specifically the D40 model (I have the predecessor - the D50). It will do all that you asked about and then some - allowing you to grow as your skills improve. More importantly, there are plenty of instructional DVDs and books for the Nikon, and also lenses and accessories (tip - stay with the Nikon brand for all of that.) The integrated electronic flash system available with the Nikon Speedlight SB600 and SB800 is really impressive. Nikon also has Nikon Capture software that allows electronic editing of the proprietary RAW files - to an extent far greater than Photoshop or other third party software. As an aside, I buy all of my photo and professional video gear through B&H in NYC - searching the web has always brought me back to them for price, and customer service is unbeatable.
Can't go wrong with Nikon
by pricetracy357 - 9/1/07 10:49 AM In reply to: Can't go wrong with Nikon by NantucketPilotWhere are the other instructional DVDs and books for the Nikon, and also lenses and accessories (tip - stay with the Nikon brand for all of that.) that are out there? I have the Nikon D40 w/18-55mm lens, and a 50mm lens.
If you have the links to these other dvds, books ect. on this particular camera, it will be sure appriciated if I could get it.
Thanks,
How to know what they did
by Rpierce1373 - 5/12/07 7:56 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
John,
There is actually a little known tool built into the Microsoft Office products that can help you with this.
Go into any MS Office product and click on HELP on the menu. Next choose ABOUT MICROSOFT.... (whatever the product is). From there, you should see a button that says SYSTEM INFO... Go ahead and click it. Now, most people don't know that MS actually uses this tool to track hardward changes. To see the HISTORY LOG:
On the menu of the System Information program, click VIEW. Now change to SYSTEM HISTORY. On the left side you will now see a choice for COMPONENTS. Click on that and the log will show you every hardward component that has changed on your system.
Hope this helps...
Ron P.
www.TrinitySolutionsInc.com
digital camera
by kilowat1946 - 5/12/07 8:08 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I started out the same point and shoot. I went with canon 350d XT because of this website, and the resale value, I knew I was going to need help!! now I wanting to step up to the next camera I've been looking for a canon 30D, look at the seller section lot of used camera,
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/ every question you can imagine they have answered, all you have to do is use the search , I also shoot sports action of the local schools I have taken over 14,000 picture in the last year
some of the pictures i have taken
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/jmwatt/landscapes%20and%20sun%20sets/IMG_3099.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/jmwatt/landscapes%20and%20sun%20sets/IMG_0004-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/jmwatt/IMG_0181.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/jmwatt/IMG_0341-1.jpg
Upgrading: is this a rip-off?
by ezbesthost1 - 5/12/07 8:28 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Stefan, your concern is justifiable. Your best insurance against rip-off in any repair or upgrade is knowledge about your item and the poeple who you are dealing with. Limiting to computers, you ought to find out what is in the current box you have and what would give a substantial increase in performance and usability. If you are the original owner of your computer you should have a record of the memory, speed, operating system, hard-drive specs and devices such as USB and ethernet ports. If you bought used or inherited your machine and are unsure of what's in it, then download Belarc Advisor or another system information software and printout the results.
That was the beginning, next you need to research what you really need. Retailers want to make money and will sell you what you ask for without many questions, I know this personally. So read user forums like CNET to see what works and what don't. Decide if you want all to be done at once or incremental. Specify the upgrades you want and ask for an estimate. Get more than one estimate, keep records, get warranties, and by all means, an itemized statement of work done. Ask to see inside the case when picking-up and match the brands of shiny, new parts to the statement.
Labor charges are a grey area that can vary widely from shop to shop. They should have a form or sign stating their service prices for you to review prior to installation. There is a trade-off as the large chains cost more but provide fast turn-around. A flea market vendor might be cheap but have a full-time job and other repairs to do by his/herself.
Charles
PC hardware info.
by jer952 - 5/12/07 8:36 AM In reply to: Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi. The easyist way of checking the hardware installed in your PC is to use the "System Information" section. This can be accessed by going to: Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Information. Once loaded, this gives any and all hardware information, such as model, and manufacture. My sugestion would be to print the sections that you want for reference/comparison. These could be usefull after your PC is upgraded.
Hope this helps,
Jerry
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