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Car Tech: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car?
- 5/3/07 11:55 AM
I own a 2001 Prius
by Apeman96 - 5/3/07 2:10 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I am extremely happy with it. I have averaged 52-55mpg consistently since day one. If anything, I think the manufacturers namely Toyota blew it when they came out with the second generation hybrid drives. The vehicles were too big, expensive, and they were going for more "Power". I guess they didn't survey me. Yes, the batteries will be a problem in a few years as far as replacement costs and disposal of the dead ones. I am approaching 90,000 miles and I still have the original batteries.
I would like to purchase an all electric vehicle, but I guess the money is in bulding "sexy, powerful" cars like the Tesla. What a waste. On the surface the Phoenix SUT (sport utility truck) has promise. It seems a bit pricey, but they're the ones taking the risks - not GM, Chrysler, or Ford. Why can't someone build a small, inexpensive comuting vehicle that can go 50-100 miles between charges. I think they'd sell a bunch.
I just don't thing Hydroden is going to be feasable - Totally new fueling infrastructure, storage technology is still insufficient, Hydrogen is dangerous!
Bio Fuels - stop gap. Look at the prce of products made from corn. They're startting to rise quite rapidly because the demand for corn is rising. Burn down/bulldoze remaining forests and plant corn. That's a bright idea. Bio-Waste seems the direction to go.
Oh Yes!!!
by bossman_01 - 5/3/07 2:15 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would buy what ever promises me 3X more mileage than I get now becasue I am paying 3X more than I should (atleast).
Not anytime soon
by seanm924 - 5/3/07 3:21 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
While 60 mpg looks great on paper, keep in mind your paying several thousand dollars more for the hybrid - probably more then you will save on gas.
I will consider buying a hybrid as soon as prices are comparable to normal vehicles, which probably won't happen soon.
Larger hybrids / using garbage for fuel
by brianjohn011 - 5/3/07 3:23 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would buy a hybrid if they made them into mid-sized rather than the dinky small safety hazard sized cars. I love my Buick LeSabre and I'm waiting for something a little bigger where the steering wheel isn't in my face and I don't have to crumple myself into a ball to get into the drivers seat.
I recalled hearing about a method to convert garbage to fuel your car. Since garbage is something they usually have to burn to dispose of why isn't more research going into converting garbage to fuel?
larger cars
by cb_anthony - 5/3/07 11:23 PM In reply to: Larger hybrids / using garbage for fuel by brianjohn011While I am not sure exactly how big is big enough in terms of an ideal car for you, I have seen several SUVs that not come standard with a hybrid engine. I know Lexus and Ford make them, but if you are set on a larger sedan than the Prius or Civic, then you might want to consider the Nissan Altima Hybrid or the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Both are family size sedans and get fairly good gas mileage for a good size car. I'm not sure, but I think the Camry gets 34 mpg and uses the same Hybrid Synergy System that the Prius uses. Though I have never driven one, several websites list the Camry as their top pick for this year. I'm sure you can find information here at CNET or at cars.com.
As a side note, I drive a Honda Civic Hybrid, and am not employed by any car or car related company. Thank you.
Math people, do some math.
by Andy77e - 5/3/07 3:25 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Let look at the numbers. I'm barring the Insight because it's a two seater, and the civic has an amazing thing called a trunk with cargo space.
Top of the line, best gas mileage hybrid: Toyota Prius
Top of the line, best gas mileage non-hybrid: Honda Civic
Prius MSRP $22,175 5yr Cost of Ownership $34,908
Civic MSRP $15,810 5yr Cost of Ownership $29,532
Prius costs $6,365 more to buy, and $5,376 more to own.
So your going to pay $11,741 more for what exactly? Let's look:
Prius estimated yearly fuel cost $466.
Civic estimated yearly fuel cost $635.
So your going to spend $11,741 for a hybrid, in order to save $169 a year in gas. This is called "penny wise, dollar stupid".
In order for you to 'save' more money in a hybrid, than me in a non-hybrid, you would have to own your car for 70 years.
You can do the math with any hybrid, comparing it to any non-hybrid high gas mileage car, and the numbers come out the same. Always remember cost of ownership. High tech, means high price repairs. You can't get an independent garage to work on most hybrids, so be ready for dealership prices.
The only place I can see a hybrid is with a travelling saleman or some job that requires tons of road time a year. And even then, a VW TDI has been known to get 55 mpg, so likely the cheaper buy and ownership cost will still make the diesel a better move money wise. Also diesel is normally cheaper than regular. The formulation changed recently so prices are messed, but they should fall back down to a little below regular.
Okay, so it's not a but money maker, but ...
by geeman1082 - 5/3/07 4:02 PM In reply to: Math people, do some math. by Andy77eI agree that new technologies will never take off until they are cheaper for people to buy, but if someone doesn't start making some unselfish decisions then we're not going to get anywhere ...
TCO includes the purchase price ... so with that in mind, and using your two example cars, the Prius costs $6300 more to buy, but only $5400 more to own for 5 years, because it will use less gas during those five years ... and if we actually compared similarly-appointed vehicles, the numbers would be much closer, and might even change the end result after five years ...
And here's some real math for all of us to try on for size ... every American who buys a hybrid instead of a regular gas-engine car (or who saves, say, 100 gallons of gas in any way they wish) will reduce the amount of oil that must be imported into the U.S. by about 5 barrels ... and there are, what, 15 million new cars sold every year? ... and perhaps 6-8 times that many used cars running around? ... so the math could add up in a hurry if we would all look at the big picture ...
Regards,
Greg
So what's it about then?
by Andy77e - 5/4/07 10:49 AM In reply to: Okay, so it's not a but money maker, but ... by geeman1082First of all, no is going to start making unselfish decisions. In fact most of the big companies are not making hybrids in order to save gas, they are doing so to collect on the government cash cow of rebates and tax incentives. Further, most of the people who support hybrid publically, have invested interest in towing the corporate line. The only reason GM built an electric car is because the government was dumping tax payer money on them. As soon as the cash flow stopped, they killed the project. It wasn't economical without government pumping our money into it.
That said, 5 year cost of ownership, as far as I know does not include purchase price. I don't remember saying "total cost of ownership" if I did, that was in error. I can't see my post atm.
However, doing the math, at $166 in fuel saving a year, at $6300 more up front cost, still requires you to own the car for 38 years. Sorry... you going to have to do much better.
And this final part is the most amazing to me. You are NUTS if you think buying a hybrid is going to 'save' even ONE barrel of imported oil. NUTS! Do you have ANY idea how many barrels of oil have to be used to make a hybrid, MORE than a normal car? Further, do you realize that gasoline is one of millions of products from oil? I am taking a look at the big picture, and that isn't going to work.
If you want to stop importing oil, we need to get the oil in our OWN LAND, then we won't have to import it. The largest untapped supply of oil in the WORLD... is in our country.
Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel
by zman1349 - 5/3/07 5:25 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would not buy a hybrid vehicle because their is no need for them! People should buy motorcycles if they are truely trying to save fuel and buy a Harley Davidson because its 110% Americanism! Also I agree with a past posting that automatic transmissions are not the way to go, standard transmissions are!
You're crazy!
by stockdad - 5/3/07 8:06 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel by zman1349As long as motorcyclists have their own medical insurance and don't expect the government to pay to have their brains put back together.
Why anyone would risk their lives with all those cellphone toting, suv driving soccer moms out there is beyond me. Deathwish?
Gas users=Terrorist supporters/Polluters/Baby Killers (j/k)
by stockdad - 5/3/07 8:00 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
If your driving a car that burns gasoline-hybrid or not-your part of the Iraqi/Iran/Kooky Venezuela leader/polluting/bankrolling Halliburton, exxonmobile et al. problem.
Drive an all electric rig or drive a diesel and fuel it with biodiesel.
Remember, if you're burning gas, you're part of the problem.
You are so full of it.
by Andy77e - 5/4/07 7:31 PM In reply to: Gas users=Terrorist supporters/Polluters/Baby Killers (j/k) by stockdadA: I support Halliburton. They create jobs and build things we use and enjoy.
B: I support Iraq, and the free people thereof.
C: If we all drove an electric rig, we'd need oil to create the electricity to run it. Also the price of electricity would go up by alot.
D: If you support preventing us getting the oil in our own land, you support us importing it from terrorists.
E: If you come on here and flap your mouth and do nothing, you're part of the problem.
Finaly, Biodiesel. Biodiesel is a double edge sword. Let me make this clear, I like the technology, and I am for advancement in this area. However... there are side effects that we might want to consider. When food becomes fuel, it enters the fuel market. What does that mean to you and me? It means prices swings exactly like what we see with other fuels.
Brazil started instituting government sponsored ethanol from sugar cane for example. Now the price of sugar cane is very high and fluctuates with fuel prices. So if biodiesel is made with (random) corn oil, let's say, then do you want to pay $10 for your next ear of corn?
Again, I'm for biodiesel, but we need to be careful how it's implemented, because whatever we use for the source is going to double if not triple in price and go through the supply and demand rollercoaster effect.
Not anytime soon
by Colin Hogan - 5/3/07 8:04 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Until more hybrids are introduced in vehicles I WANT to drive, I'm not the kind of guy who wants to drive a Civic or Prius, then I'll stick with gas cars. Toyota is on the right track with having hybrid Lexus' but in the mean time, I'd rather buy a diesel vehicle like a Mercedes E320 or ML320 diesel that gets much better torque while getting better gas mileage than their gas equivilents. What they should put a priority on is bringing cleaner low sulfer diesel fuel to the US like is availble in Europe.
Economically, I'd rather pay less up front for a car and then if I end up making up the difference great. If I sell the car before that happens I'm not the one out the difference.
Hybrid are a nice transition point.
by cb_anthony - 5/3/07 11:16 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Yes, I would buy a hybrid. In fact, I bought one less than two weeks ago. It is a Honda Civic Hybrid 2007 model.
Now, some people seem to have a slightly outdated view of modern hybrid technology. Current models do turn off the engine when stopped at a stoplight, they do not need to plugged in to charge, and the initial cost isn't terribly more than a regular internal combustion engine. As for miles per gallon, although it may vary from person to person, I get about 42+ miles per gallon overall and about 44+ on my most recent tank of gas. I should add that I haven't fully broken in the engine yet, so I do expect to gain a few more miles per gallon in the coming months and/or after my first oil change.
One thing I've noticed while driving a hybrid is that the real-time miles per gallon display has helped to make me a safer and more efficient driver. I can see, in real-time, what driving techniques give me the most savings and I am less inclined to speed while driving on the interstate. This seems to be common occurrence among Hybrid owners. However, do be careful about watching the road and not just the display.
While some people may scoff at the higher price of hybrids, it should be pointed out that if I were to buy a regular car, I'd probably have bought a comparably priced car or perhaps even a bit more expensive. As it is, I suppose I settled for a little bit less but since local gas prices are well over $3.00, I don't really regret it. Add in a federal tax credit of (I believe) $2,100 if you meet the deadline, and the initial cost seems even less offensive. I have yet to check if my state has any state tax incentives, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. I have heard that California is allowing hybrid owners to use the HOV lanes. It wouldn't help me, but it seems like a nice incentive. Also in regard to money, it does seem that most hybrid sedans come equipped with a fairly high level of technology. I know that people say the Prius is like something out Star Trek, and that my Civic has amenities similar to the top of the line Civic EX line. That is one thing to consider when buying a hybrid, what kind of extra features do they include.
As gasoline prices are expected to rise to around $4.00 per gallon in the near future, I believe that I will come to appreciate my car's superb mileage even more. Strangely enough, the Prius hybrid gets even better mileage than my civic, but the civic fits my tastes better.
Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel
by jshale - 5/4/07 3:26 AM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would consider a hybrid, especially in light of gas prices going over $3.00 again. I would be much less likely to buy an alternative fuel car, at least of the biofuel variety. First, the net gain in energy over using only oil-based fuels is minimal. Second, I've read if all the corn and beans in the US were converted to biofuel, it would still only cover 10% or so of our fuel needs. Finally, although I appreciate the economic benefit farmers receive from increased grain prices, the higher food cost in food, particularly to Third World countries, may not be worth the trade off for such little gain in extra fuel.
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