Car Tech: What's your favorite alternative fuel?
- 4/24/07 5:45 PM
What's your favorite alternative fuel?
by wcunning - 4/24/07 5:45 PM
What's your favorite alternative fuel, and why do you think it's the best? Does it offer a possible long-term replacement to gasoline? I've covered some current alternative fuels in my column, Your clean, green car choices.
Electrons.
by R. Proffitt
- 4/24/07 5:51 PM
In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
As in electric cars. The infrastructure is already in place but it will be stopped at every turn since it threatens the current trillions of dollars yet to be made from the current fuel economy.
The source of said electrons can be solar, wind, nuclear, etc. So from day zero we can change the energy source without destroying our EV car.
On top of that it is then possible to have solar, wind, other collectors at home.
Go EV.
Bob
Good Answer!!!
by TheRogueRook - 4/25/07 11:15 PM In reply to: Electrons. by R. Proffitt
Using electricity makes way more sense for the immediate and long term future. The grid is already in place, just requires a few changes. One important fact is that liquid alternatives such as biodiesel and ethanol require shipping of the fuel. Electricity can be made practically on site and, if not, costs little to "ship". Another thing is that electricity gives the most flexibility - like the poster said - we can use solar, wind, wave, etc etc forms to produce the electricity.
Electric only if...
by talkf - 12/21/07 6:22 AM In reply to: Good Answer!!! by TheRogueRookYou have solar panels/windmill generated power feeding your home grid that you can plug your car into, otherwise, hydrogen baby, with a water converter in the garage.
Which again...
by Andy77e - 12/21/07 6:45 AM In reply to: Electric only if... by talkfHow much power are you willing to purchase to make the hydrogen? The cost to charge batteries is lower than the cost to make hydrogen... so why do it. At this rate, you'll go farther on charged batteries than a tank of Hydrogen too.
Give it a rest with the conspiracy theories already
by bcamp1973 - 4/26/07 8:54 AM In reply to: Electrons. by R. Proffitt
Electric's drawback is that chemical batteries suck and always will (it's the chemistry).
Even GM is looking to an electric future
by albizzia - 4/26/07 1:23 PM In reply to: Give it a rest with the conspiracy theories already by bcamp1973Chemistry is what its all about, Baggins. Currently available mass produced standard LiIon batteries can give a 200 to 350 mile range per charge, and there are many improved LiIon batteries under development.
Then there are even more energy dense batteries now under development, such as Zinc Air, Lithium Sulfur, Aluminum Air, and Lithium Air. Lithium Air cells have already reached 3Kwh per Kg in the lab, at that energy density, it rivals gasoline - especially when you consider that electric motors are 4x more efficient than IC engines.
It is IC engines that suck, not batteries.
recharge time
by gilligan888 - 5/2/07 8:39 PM In reply to: Even GM is looking to an electric future by albizziaNow how long do these batteries take to recharge. I can still fill my tank up in a matter of minutes as opposed to waiting to charge the batteries. I'm not opposed to electric cars, I just dont think they will take off because of the batteries. I believe that the hydrogen cars have the best chance at this point.
H2 Hallucination
by Beaters - 5/2/07 10:31 PM In reply to: recharge time by gilligan888Anyone who thinks hydrogen gas is a solution in the near to mid term is either ignorant or just crazy. Hydrogen might become an effective storage medium for energy somewhere down the road but it isn't an energy source. Free hydrogen is a manufactured commodity, that uses up energy as it's liberated.
Industry Hydrogen comes from coal - not water
by Rx_ - 5/3/07 9:51 AM In reply to: H2 Hallucination by BeatersLike many, I assumed industry hydrogen came from water.
My son did a science fair, and did the research.
The DOE book "The Hydrogen Economy" describes the government funding and process in detail.
less than 0.1% of hydrogen comes from water. In fact, to use electrolysis it must be salt water. The byproduct chloride gas is just too nasty and the electrolysis is only 40% efficient.
Hydrogen in large volumes is produced by putting Coal in high pressure and high heat. 99% of inustry Hydrogen is made from coal.
So, the H2 "perfect fuel" is much less efficient ecologoly wise than burning coal in huge electrical turbines. About 30% less efficient from an ecology view.
The Tesla Motors car has a great engineering chart with the technologies side-by-side to show the footprint.
Hydrogen will eventually become the definitive Fuel.
by alisrelatif - 5/3/07 1:51 PM In reply to: Industry Hydrogen comes from coal - not water by Rx_Sorry to disagree with those that think otherwise. The source will be water and the energy needed to produce it will come solar waffers (already available)which will be mass produced to gernerate the dc current to do it with. Solar energy is free. Advantages are great. Abundunce of water, Clean fuel with minima pollutants, when burned (Hydrogen)will produce water instead of the breakdown hydrocarrbons (methane ,ethane, other alkanes, etc.), CO2,SO2, nitrous oxides and so on, associated with the burning (oxidation) of gasoline .... depending on the refinery of crude oil, and other impurities locked into the burning of gasoline. The price for the production of hydrogen will fall with the mass production of the same. Wait till the price of gas reaches $10 -15/gal and you will see many changes. Ethanol maybe temporary, but is not a definitive solution. Remember you heard it from me.
before you use any electricity to make hydrogen...
by impala - 5/3/07 2:04 PM In reply to: Hydrogen will eventually become the definitive Fuel. by alisrelatifbefore you use any solar electricity to make hydrogen gas, lets first meet the existing electricity demand growth to prevent new power plant construction.
Next you can eliminate coal fired power plants.
Then you can eliminate oil fired power plants.
Then you can eliminate gas fired power plants.
Then you get a choice to eliminate nuclear power plants or produce hydrogen for transportation.
It would be a waste- no logical reason to do that
by jdbwar07 - 5/4/07 5:35 AM In reply to: Hydrogen will eventually become the definitive Fuel. by alisrelatifIt wouldn't make good economic sense because it's inherently inefficient. A hydrogen fuel cell produces electricity. So first you produce the hydrogen with electrolysis (in your view, from solar panels). This is very inefficient, you lose a lot of energy in the process. Then you'd just use a fuel cell, which like any energy conversion is far from 100% efficient. The problem is you should just use the electricity directly. This link explains it best:
http://logicalscience.blogspot.com/2006/11/hydrogen-economy-no-backing-in-physics.html
It's amazing how the media hype has inflated this whole "hydrogen economy" idea. I guess people just look at the fuel cell and comment on how neat it is, no emissions but water and more efficient than gasoline. You have to create the hydrogen which takes energy, it's not an energy source like gasoline. Hydrogen of course is very good in specific situations, and can be a good backup power source. However it's ludicrous to think it's a good idea to power all our cars and set up an expensive new infrastructure for this highly flammable substance when electricity is works fine. And electricity can come from any energy source, so whenever we switch no a new power generation scheme whether nuclear, wind, etc. batteries will always work.
I personally think our supposed "hydrogen future" was more made up by politicians than physicists. President Bush for example purported to deal with the energy crisis by setting aside a couple billion dollars for fuel cells, which of course won't even be feasible for a long time (like 2020) Critics have noted it was probably to avoid taking readily available measures which would help out right now , such as increasing CAFE standards and supporting energy conservation--policies which would cost the oil industry money, and at the same time provide a centralized distribution scheme which, if developed, hopefully they could control. Electricity of course doesn't require any of that, if you have enough solar panels you could in theory not have to buy any from the power company (today however it's too costly for most consumers).
Hydrogen shows promise, if only electricity generation was..
by Steven Dunn - 5/6/07 8:21 PM In reply to: Hydrogen will eventually become the definitive Fuel. by alisrelatif...cheap, simple, and easy to obtain and maintain, anyone who would, could produce their own fuel.
Now the best solutions to so-called 'green' and alternative energy systems will
come from the most unlikely sources.
If an alternative is cheap, simple, easy to maintain, and every home can have one
(or two or more 'energizers'), why continue to be connected to the 'grid' when you
can generate your own electricity at relative little cost (over say 10 years or more)?
Cheap... learn to build and maintain your own system for (basically) the cost of the
parts, your time, and remember, no fuel is ever required...?!
Simple... do you remember 10 year old Shawnee Baughman from Idaho and her
award winning science project... it was based on this very technology!
http://truthinheart.com/JohnBedini.html
And now every home can have one (or two) of these 'energizers'. Imagine, NO
more energy bills. Now that has got to be worth a visit to the following links...
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/kron.html
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/JohnBedini/SG/Feb2005/
index.html
Where's Greenpeace on this?
Where's business on this?
Where's the government on this?
Don't hold your breath. They want you to pay more for energy. Much more.
Do yourself a favour. Get yourself some real 'Freedom'. And build yourself an
energizer or two.
Because you will then be able to generate electricity, and then you will be able
to generate Hydrogen on demand to run modified internal combustion engines...
Search for 'Browns Gas' or Stan Deyo and you will soon get the idea.
May the truth set you 'Free'.
Ok, no problem.
by Andy77e - 12/21/07 6:50 AM In reply to: Hydrogen shows promise, if only electricity generation was.. by Steven DunnBuy the book yourself, make the 'free energy device' yourself, sell the darn thing, and when people start buying it, I'll send you a note saying how right you are, and buy one myself.
Otherwise, can the hot air.
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