Car Tech: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car?
- 5/3/07 11:55 AM
so what do you think is better?
by hydrocars - 11/13/08 9:35 PM In reply to: Sorry to break this to you by Andy77ea quarrel between hybrid and hydro cars, great.. but you must all realize that both have same targets, to reduce oil consumption thats, so we must respect both areas for this inventions might lead to a better future.. thanks..
lab rats needed
by laburner - 5/2/07 10:04 PM In reply to: Never-considering the enviromental impact. by fish4925While the alternative energy vehicles are imperfect someone has to try them for the effort to succeed. I can't afford to buy a new car. My '98 Durango gets only 14mpg average. But my long torso is a comfort and safety concern whenever I drive a little s**tbox. Living out in the boonies is going to get very expensive for folk like me. It is over 200 miles to the nearest Home Depot and I don't think the electric car will tow the trailer of lumber and bricks that I need to bring home every now and then. The self-righteous "greenies" will not understand and I don't expect them to. Perhaps, installing a few generating windmills will ease the guilt. But, then again, where does the money come from to build these generators.
misinformation and FUD
by cwerdna - 5/19/07 5:18 PM In reply to: Never-considering the enviromental impact. by fish4925Hybrid cars DO NOT use lead acid batteries to power their electric motors. They use NiMH batteries.
The Prius does have a very small 12V lead-acid battery but much to what you'd find in a regular car and it doesn't even start the gas engine.
Where do you get your "5 time the energy to rebuild 5 time the batteries " from? Cite your sources.
Why do you bring up deep cycle batteries and their lifespan? The HV batteries are NiMH and are intentionally NOT deeply cycled. They're warranted in the Prius and Civic Hybrid for 10 years/150K miles in CA and a few other CARB states. They're managed by a computer to keep them between a certain SOC (http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/prius-battery-pack). http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/jesse3.htm is at 285K miles on his previous gen Prius on his original battery.
Considering the impact...
by albizzia - 5/27/07 9:39 PM In reply to: Never-considering the enviromental impact. by fish4925I agree that walking and bike riding are A Good Thing, and when it is practical to do so, I will walk or ride my bike. I'd also agree that if you've got a good older car in good shape with reasonably good milage, it may be better to keep it than to buy new.
The rest of that fishy post, um, no.
Hybrid batteries are larger, but only because they need to store all the energy they save. Typical hybrid batteries weigh 85 to 110 lbs, not exactly a huge load! NiMH batteries can last far longer than older lead acid, especially with proper battery management to prevent overcharging and excessive discharge. NiMH batteries in some Prius have gone over 200,000 miles and lasted over 10 years. Some newer lithium batteries coming on the market are even better for energy storage, and may also have long lives.
Yes, a lot of electricity is produced from burning coal (in very efficient plants), but here in California, it is only 40% of the supply, and the percentage is dropping as increasing amounts of solar, wind, geothermal and hydro come on line. Except for some portable generators and a few emergency backups, electricity is not produced from oil products.
On my 2nd on, Insight to Mercury Mariner Hybrid
by michaelcvoigt - 5/2/07 9:08 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I love my Mercury Mariner Hybrid.... super fun.
I got the mileage gauge up to 33.8 MPG this weekend.
I traded my 01 Insight in and got 9k on the trade, it held good value.
Here's something nobody's mentioned!
by jbaviera - 5/2/07 9:11 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
What about a TAX on the miles you drive, instead of a tax per gallon of gas. I seem to remember about an article from CA. stating that they would consider imposing a Mileage Use Tax for owners of Hybrid or electric vehicles.
How many miles do you think you'll drive a week? How many miles a week do you think that the state will say that you drive? Will we be able to prove otherwise?
My 4ltr V6 Ranger gets about 20-21 mpg highway, and around 18 city. Figuring the roughly 40 cents per gallon in tax at the pump, that works out to 0.02 per mile. What will the state charge per mile? I'd be willing to bet that it's a lot more....
Don't forget, our roads are built and repaired with the income from the gas pump.
Mileage Tax
by Hammsailor - 5/2/07 9:32 PM In reply to: Here's something nobody's mentioned! by jbavieraThe first problem with a Mileage Tax is that it would be another tax which would never disappear. The second problem is that most of those who drive the guzzlers could afford to pay that tax and would not reduce mileage driven. So, where's the gas savings? Thirdly, the tax applied to the sale of gas at the pump would not be reduced. A Mileage Tax would be just another tax. I'm surprised that CA hasn't jumped on that one yet.
alternative car
by mario50 - 5/2/07 9:22 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Why USA and Australia did not agree with a Kyoto Pact??USA id the most production of polution the 66% of the entire world but Mr Bush did not agree with scientist in Kyoto and as a Donkey Australia Followed Him, Jsust question of Money nothing else.
Is my opinion if some one will produce the car propulsed by air they will find and way to let us pay AIR, when bush made the spech about the action will be take following the september 11 annunced to give 20 milliond dollars for the search of alternative fuel.but in same time he spend billion dollars for one war presenting prove to the world of chemical weapons owned by Iraq, prove that my son 11 years old coud drwa better was a ridicul presentation.
I mean spend this money for research for alternative fuel but serius research no fake as He presented .
I am in USA several month per year ,specially in KY and i feel Hurting when i see all.specially outside the Hilly BILLY homes,wrenched cars ,rusted appliances this dumping rubbish on the bushes ,where it is tree, also here in Australia homes are builded in wood ,forbidden and build in cement in brick saving trees, when some one is catch to blast a bust straight away send 30 years in jail ,mo as here in australia they give 1 year and let them free.
WHEN OUR PLANET WILL DIE NO MONEY COULD SAVE US.
Because it was garbage.
by Andy77e - 5/4/07 8:28 PM In reply to: alternative car by mario50Because the Kyoto pact was full of garbage. Bush was right in not signing it. It would just harm job and do nothing really for the environment. Further, despite what some idiots would claim, we didn't need to prove Saddam had WMDs, we already know he had them. I used them during the Iran-Iraq war. There's no question he had them.
You believe we're going to destroy the planet, got it. I do not, so please scream "the sky is falling" elsewhere.
Uh look again,
by Melyash - 5/20/07 11:11 AM In reply to: alternative car by mario50China is putting a new power plant online at a rate of 100+ a year, and what are they powered with? COAL.
Yes the US is one of the largest producers of pollutants, and Greenhouse Gasses, we are also the largest consumers of products produced WORLD WIDE. You wanna talk about money? Money out of our pockets flows to your pockets so that you can have power, and homes and computers to ***** at us on the internet. Money to FEED the 11 year old sons of all of you out there. If the EVIL US did not consume products the billion plus people that our consumption supports would not have jobs, and not be able to even own a TV to see the BS that is spewed forth. Their kids would not have an education to DRAW the conclusion mario here illudes to, because their country would be so poor they could not afford to build the infrastructure necessary to bring about a better standard of living.
The world loves to blame the US for all we do wrong, and yet we are so bad that millions of people a year risk their lives to sneak into this evil place to make a better life than they have other places on the globe. The US PUBLIC had donated more money to poverty relief, Disaster Relief and a thousand other "reliefs" than any other country on the PLANET. We gave BILLIONS to relief efforts after the Sunammi of 05, and we continue to do so world wide and what do we get in return? How much money did Austrailia send when Huricane Katrina hit the gulf coast? Indonisia? How about India? Siria Lanka (sp?) I will wager you can add all the donations every country affected by the Sunammi of 05 gave to Katrina Victims, and it would not add up to 1/1000th the amount the american public gave to them. Not the government, not the Federal, State or Local counties, but the PEOPLE through individual donations to organizations that provided real relief to those in need.
I didn't see the Ausies over here rebuilding schools and hospitals within a week of Katrina, but you sure as hell saw the Evil US military lending a hand within hours of the Sunammi. Flying rescue helicopters and sifting thru the debris looking for surviors. The Navy's contruction batalions (Sea Bee's) were there within days, and the Army Corp of engineers were on the way within a week. Funny about all that, I bet we never sent anybody a frigging bill for all that!
We send boat loads of food to Africa, only to have it stolen by warlords and horded to gain power, and when we go there and try and give it to the people who need it, our solders are ambushed by people who use women and children as shields as they shoot at us. The drag the bodies of our fallen thru the streets and hang them from lamp posts! Oh yea, big bad imperialist america, opressing the poor warlords and trying to take the MILLIONS of pounds of food away from them and give it to the people, regardless of race, creed, religous belief or what color shirt you are wearing today. Yea big bad evil America! If it wasn't for America, you would be speaking Japaneese right now. Next time you think you want to rant about america and how much bad we do, go ask somebody who has food in their belly and a roof over thier head if they hate the person who put it there.
The Kyoto pact was as much a political tool as an actual envronmental document, crafted to garnish economic and polical gain. It is political Posturing at its best. Crafted to build stratigic advantages to countries who are in direct economic competition with the US and it's allies, and failing to address many of the most important issues of today's rapidly changing global economy, It was a dinosaur and served no purpose for America to sign. America already has some of the highest and most stringent envronmental regulations in the world. For instance California has some of the cleanest burning cars of anyplace on earth and has stronger regulations coming online! Hybrid vehicles meet or exceed even TOKYO's tough envronmental standards for emmisions are selling like never before because americans care about our envronment and the effect our cars have on the envronment. We have 4 passenger cars that put out less polution than a motor scooter in other countries, and more and more of them are being used every day.
General Electric, An AMERICAN company is producing the cleanest burning Jet engine the world has ever seen, meeting or exceeding all federal standards. They build desalinzation plants to provide clean water for people who live in areas hit by drought or other factors that reduce water quality. Producing water from seawater allows other water sources such as Ground Water to replenish.
Mario, you spend a couple months a year in Kentucky and you feel you have any clue whatsoever what the USA is all about? That would be like spending time with a tribe of Hill people in the outback and judging you country on that experince alone. Are you insulting all those proud people that live in Kentucky by saying that they should be given money from the same government that you rail against so vigerously?
They can apply for assistance if they want to, and yet most don't because they are either too proud, or they actually like living in a place where they don't have the government telling them they have to have a car that emits only this amount of smog, or that their houses have to look like this or have to be painted only these colors.
These are Hill Folk, they are proud of what they are and the fact they get along just fine without the government sticking its nose in thier business. With your statement what you really are saying is these people can't take care of themselves so the government should? Sounds kinda Marxist to me there pal. These are proud people and I bet if you told them that to their face, they would probably be so pissed they would rearange yours. (look up the hatfields and McCoy's if you dont believe me) You have no clue about Southern Culture, let alone America as a whole. Redneck Pride is just that PRIDE. They don't care if they got rusty appliances on thier porch, or when they mow thier lawn they find a tractor they thought was stolen. It is their way of life. Stop trying to use them as your pawn for pushing forward your anti U.S. sentiments. Tell ya what, you go back to Kentucky and tell them you feel sorry for them, and spout some of your ANTI American BS, if they don't kick your butt they did not understand you. They are the home of American Pride.
America does spend money on alternitive fuels, and we are making progress, probably more than any other nation, because we do see the forest for the trees. Just because Bush mentioned 20 million bucks you think that is all we spend on alternitive fuels? California alont spent FAR more in one year in a partnership with a worldwide consortium of automakers developing a FUEL CEL vehicle that is a reality now. Once again, you have fallen prey to the anti U.S. Hatemongers that skew the little info you hear in a way that helps their cause. America as a whole, is spending more per year than your national budget on energy exploration and alternative fuels. So get off your high horse and look again.
And to tell you something you probably dont understand, AMERICA actually produces trees in the areas you visit so we don't deforest other areas of the world. Americans donate more money per year to save rain forest than any 5 other countries combined. You want to talk about deforestation, sorry, we are actually planting trees forests than we had 20 years ago, not LESS. We are utilizing renewable resources such as wood because it is cheep, renewable and when it does wear out it crumbles to the ground and becomes food for bugs that make fertilizer and grows more wood. Try that with a cinderblock. Cinderblocks crumble in an earthquake but a properly engineered wood building just sways and then stays up.
And you last line about your own governments ability to prosicute your own criminals? How the heck is that America's fault? Their your judges and politicians! If you dont like what they do VOTE EM OUT! You should have a pretty good idea how to deal with criminals, Your country started out as a Prison for British Criminals too dangerous to leave in EUROPE! Stop blaming the US for everything, if we stopped buying all your crap your economy would collapse within a year. And to tell you the truth, our garages and homes are getting pretty full, so maybe you better start looking at a new line of work, cause manufacturing is not gonna cut it in the long run.
BTW if you have a popluation the size of China, and everybody stops riding bycicles ( citing a 10% YEARLY increase in drivers licenses quoted in the movie "crude awakening") who do you think is gonna be the big polluter on the block in short order? Better look North my friend cause that many people all driving to work is gonna be your worst nightmare and ours.
Why I'm holding back
by Hammsailor - 5/2/07 9:26 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
As I understand it, the hybrid cars of today require a great deal more energy and material to build than the standard 4 cycle-only-powered vehicles. The batteries themselves cost a fortune to replace and the year of the car and mileage will effect your selling or trade-in value. I get 26 MPG in the city and 38 MPG on the highway with my 2004 Honda Accord with a 5 speed. That's pretty darned good mileage without the batteries and the extra gear. Nope, not for awhile. And let's not even talk about ethanol. Check the physics and economies of burning ethanol, even 85%, in your car and you won't want it either.
Can you say Hemi?
by brownkc - 5/2/07 9:35 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My truck may burn gas, but it burns rubber too! Thank you Dodge.
bring the roadsters
by silvercloud9 - 5/2/07 9:43 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
For some of us who love the environment but who also love to drive, the big performance question re hybrid powertrains has been answered already; not only no loss, but in some cases substantial gains in torque and responsiveness. Looks like the Lexus flagship will be the LS460 Hybrid, which is a fair indication that the Hybrid can, and will, transcend car classes (and perceptions); they're not just 'green' anymore, thanks to the first wave of brave and future-minded folks who have already signed on and made 'environmentally responsible' viable and even desirable to automobile manufacturers. It's presumably only a matter of time before the Hybrid powertrain finds what should be its natural application in a roadster or two. So, I'm a sports car guy; given the choice, and presented with the best of both worlds? Wouldn't waste a minute deliberating....yes, absolutely. (and obviously there are few better ways to enjoy the environment than in a top-down car)
What's to consider?
by SkyFly757 - 5/2/07 9:55 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hybrids are to the car world what beta was to the DVD world.
In a short while, as humans panic about the planet heating up, there will be a solution on the horizon that will be like the invention of the gasoline engine was to the 20th century.
If the earth is heating up, first of all, it has built in governors, caused by physics in nature, that try to return the planet to stability. The Earth is an inherently stable platform and has been for thousands of years.
What has been unstable of recent, is the Sun. It has been firing out dangerous plasma ejecta for less than 10 years, plasma that could wipe out all life on this or any other planet for that matter, in our solar system. Now we have received only glancing blows and near misses so far. But the planet has wandered into the path of solar ejectas a few times. We experienced mass communication interuptions, but nothing major as of yet.
This is what is causing the Global Warming phenomenon that we are witness to today.
These so called fixes we are attempting to make to curb global warming, are but a drop of water in a sea of ocean. The effects would not even be noticeable, but it makes us panic less, so we find it comforting. But this is bound to become a very neurotic "dog chasing tail" that has a lot of "blame game" to go with it.
We need to calm down and look at this dilemma a little more closely.
Tesla had many inventions that were confiscated by the government, that were never impemented. Many other minds are at work on ideas as well, eventually we will have a light come on upstairs and realize what we could have done all along. (That's when the engine was invented.)
Until then we are destined to grope around in the dark and come up with vain analogies about what is happening and what we can do about it.
The Hybrid is a waste of time, money and powerful inventiveness.
I guess I'll just ride a Chinese bicycle until then. Good day all.
BKD
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