Car Tech: What's your favorite alternative fuel?
- 4/24/07 5:45 PM
Need a system that is competitive
by evofxdwg - 5/2/07 9:14 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
My favorite alternative fuel would be one that is economically competitive with gasoline, including fuel, vehicle, and maintenance costs. Im afraid there is not one yet.
I have a 2002 Suburban flexfuel. MPG measurements over many tanks of gasoline, then 6 tanks of E85 revealed a 26% drop in MPG with E85. The price difference makes E85 significantly higher per mile in this area (although I haven't checked E85 price lately).
I have looked into an electric conversion for a small vehicle and the range limitation using widely available, reasonably cheap flooded lead acid batteries is a severe penalty, as is the battery maintenance time and battery replacement costs that would be required. Alternate technology batteries such as NiMH and Lithium types are completely out of economic practicality. Also, a higher tech conversion with AC motor and regenerative braking is pretty pricey as well. (Look at the price of a Tesla roadster). So electric is out for now.
Turbocharged diesel seems pretty promising. Volkswagen just introduced the VW Polo Bluemotion in Europe that claims 72 MPG. I would love to have an option for a smaller high tech turbocharged diesel in a domestic SUV and pickup. But for some reason, the US mfrs are not embracing it. Why?
Maybe when gas goes to 4.00??? or 5.00?? a gallon, some other technology/fuel will become competitive. Perhaps lithium batteries can achieve scale production economies soon. Or maybe US auto mfrs will offer proven economical technologies such as the small displacement turbodiesel. I will keep my old clunkers running and not buy new till that day comes.
untimate energy source
by clintjones - 5/3/07 11:59 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
the sun is the ultimate energy source and the sooner we go to it the better off we all will be. The sun is the only source of energy from the very beginning as the fossil fuels are only solar energy stored in plants, rocks and water. Let's go solar! Clint Jones
Message was edited by: admin to remove personal phone number.
Biofuels kills two bird with one stone
by vdblu - 5/2/07 9:17 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
Biofuels are I think the best alternative fuel because it has the potential to tackle two issues. First, biofuels can be made from waste products, such as agricultural waste (ie: corn, etc) or manufacturing waste (ie: used cooking oil). So already, it's great to that end. Second, biofuels can be made to run clean, in conjunction with technologies such as particulate filters (which Volkswagen uses) or engines such as Bluetec (which Mercedes Benz/Chrysler) uses).
Hybrids are great in theory but the amount of waste in takes to produce the batteries, not to mention disposal of the batteries.
Hydrogen, would be the ultimate however, every car manufacturer, though they have working prototypes, admit that one will be in the market no earlier than 10 years from now.
In the meantime, biofuels are here.
The Breakdown
by amir_at2020 - 5/2/07 9:28 PM In reply to: Biofuels kills two bird with one stone by vdbluThere are lots of problems for H2. Here are the ways to make H2:
-Fischer Process
-Petroleum Refinement
-Water Electrolysis
Fischer Process is the process the Germans used to convert coal to H2 and CO (syn-gas). From this they made hydrocarbons and fuel when they were sanctioned back in the 1920's and 30's. Since the USA has tremendous amounts of coal, we can actually live off this for a while, but only when gas hits $8-10 a gallon, then it becomes feasible.
Petroleum refinement speaks for itself, when oil is gone, no more H2 production from this method.
Water hydrolysis is also another method, but the accumulation of 02 on the anode and other issues makes it very unefficient process of making H2.
and about CH3CH2OH (Ethanol):
This is the most ridiculuos suggestion for alternative fuel. Where is this supposed to come from? From corn? Corn needs fertile land to grow, fertile land is when it has NH3 or nitrates. Guess how NH3 or nitrates are made? It comes from a process called the Haber process. Haber process requires N2 and H2. As I stated above, H2 nowadays is made from petroleum, so once that runs out, no more fertilizers, no more corn, no ethanol. A very bad idea.
(NT) Take a look at some of the electroysis videos on u tube
by cudneydr - 5/2/07 9:51 PM In reply to: The Breakdown by amir_at2020Problems with bio-fuels
by Rosesimone - 5/2/07 9:44 PM In reply to: Biofuels kills two bird with one stone by vdbluUnfortunately, too much farmland would be required to produce the corn or soybeans and other crops to provide fuel for all the cars that are on the road now.
Plus, recent studies have shown that the energy-intensive inputs (the fertilizer, pesticides, etc.) and the amount of energy used in converting these plants into fuels would be a process that in itself would use so much fossil fuel, it wouldn't be worth it . Also, recent studies have shown that ethanol (from corn) has a big disadvantage in actually raising the ozone pollution.
So, although the crops are renewable and the agricultural industry would love it, because it would boost the price of their crops, I'm afraid it's not really a great alternative.
I still think the most viable solution would be electric cars with long-lasting batteries that are charged from wind turbines and solar panels
Actually, even if a car battery could only go 100 miles on a full charge (something that I think is pretty close to what we have on hand already ) you could have two or three of these batteries charging in your garage if your house is on a system that is hooked up to a wind farm coupled with solar energy panels.
Plus, you could have recharging stations powered by wind and solar and if the battery technology improves so that you recharge at one of these batteries at a recharging station within 10 to 15 minutes, then you could drive across the entire country in electric vehicles and entirely replace gasoline fill-up stations.
make biodiesel in the desert or ocean
by impala - 5/3/07 4:05 PM In reply to: Problems with bio-fuels by Rosesimonewhat if you could produce biodiesel from agae in the ocean, or in an artificial environment in a desert? Guess what, you can!
Electricity - Hands Down!
by gwins - 5/2/07 9:22 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
It's very simple, Electricity is the answer. It's available today and was available yesterday. It's extremely renewable and would save consumers money beyond just fuel costs. Some would argue that electric vehicles in the past were not equipped with batteries strong enough to sustain long distance driving. Although I do believe that today's technology could easily produce a battery that could sustain over 300 driven miles on a single charge, I feel that the Plug-in Hybrid concept hits the mark for most people right now.
Personally, the idea of having to wait 20 years for hydrogen to become practical seems a bit fishy to me. Isn't it understood that we have about 25 years supply of petroleum left? Coincidence? I don't think so!
Thorium
by markiangooley - 5/2/07 9:25 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
Okay, partly kidding. I would like to see hybrid cars with no transmissions (engine drives a generator which charges batteries and/or powers an electric motor on each wheel) and streetcar-like pantographs so that for long highway trips, they could draw electric power off the grid and travel without being piloted or burning their own fuel, under automatic control, at say 100mph in special lanes. This means a lot of electric power, and that's where the thorium comes in. Most of Florida (where I live) is lousy with the stuff, as are parts of India. I'm tired of being irradiated with it, so why not use some up? Heavy-water reactors like the Canadian CANDU models can breed U-233 from Th-232, and that can be fissioned for electric power. Yeah, yeah, I know it'll never happen.
Hydrogen could be produced with electricity from the nuke plants, but it's a pain to store in a vehicle, sadly, otherwise the cars could run off fuel cells when not connected to the grid...
fuel
by f3474drum - 5/2/07 9:30 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
create your own natural gas, by eating tons of beans.
Conservation as fuel
by ketama - 5/2/07 9:35 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
We can create "nega" watts through simple conservation. Start with a 40 mpg diesel car or hybrid or electric. But don't drive it. Don't buy a jet ski, motorhome, dirt bike, gas lawnmower, etc. Move closer to your job, use public transportation. You get the idea...
What's your favorit alterative fuel
by wenmax - 5/2/07 9:36 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
I live in Australia, and a very popular fuel, which I use is LPG, it costs about 1/3 the price of petrol (gas)it has low emissions.
Cheers
Max Hopkins ( Melbourne, Australia)
AIR POWER
by vvboysetsfirevv - 5/2/07 9:49 PM In reply to: What's your favorite alternative fuel? by wcunning
After watching the discovery channel and seeing the show Future Cars, air is the new thing for me. They have actually already made a few models of these cars that run on air pressure. They actually get pretty fast and eventually they will make an onboard generator which produces its own high pressured air so that you never have to fill up. No emissions, no wasted time filling up, no cost for fuel. How could we ask for more!?
(NT) What is the effieiency?
by cudneydr - 5/2/07 9:54 PM In reply to: AIR POWER by vvboysetsfirevvPost a link if possible
by Tymlaird - 5/2/07 10:45 PM In reply to: AIR POWER by vvboysetsfirevvPlease post a link to the air power info, I'd like to know how that is supposed to work.
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