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Car Tech: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car?
- 5/3/07 11:55 AM
Styling cues v efficiency
by WHlanteigne - 5/3/07 6:18 PM In reply to: Hybred Choice - The Ford Escape by ahblainThe reason the Insight and Prius are so "ugly" has to do at least in part with aerodynamics. I'm pretty sure that, as fuel efficiency becomes more crucial to new car sales we'll be seeing a lot more aerodynamic, "ugly" cars, whatever the powerplant; I suspect that in a few years it won't be possible to detect the difference between hybrids and "conventional" vehicles.
My 1965 Citroen DS was "ugly" too, but gave astonishing fuel efficiency for its time (and if maintenence hadn't been so expensive, I'd still be driving it).
Since I tend to buy cars that are considered a bit past their prime, that is, over 10 years old, whether or not I buy a hybrid is probably going to depend on how quickly the cost of replacement battery packs will come down to by price range.
Presently driving a 1992 Buick Century with V6, 18mpg city/30mpg highway, not gonna replace it until I can't afford to keep it running, which may be another 100,000 miles. When the time comes, hybrids will be one thing I'll look at, diesels another.
Hybrids no, Hydrogen yes.....
by ggguy77 - 5/2/07 8:25 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Alternative fuels, such as Hydrogen are the way to go! The only reason they are not on the market all ready is that NO OIL is in the fuel equation....hybrids, which may reduce the big oil companies' profits, still need gasoline. In that case, they just increase the price per gallon. If it weren't for the oil companies' interference on many levels, we would already be using Hydrogen cars.
H2 is a great idea, but not nearly ready for prime time
by geeman1082 - 5/3/07 8:29 AM In reply to: Hybrids no, Hydrogen yes..... by ggguy77"If it weren't for the oil companies' interference on many levels, we would already be using Hydrogen cars."
Probably not ... I am a huge fan of fuel cells (and most definitely NOT a big fan of the oil companies), but there are too many shortcomings to H2 right now, sorry to say ... most importantly is the lack of a readily available supply ... H2 unfortunately loves to stay hooked onto Carbon, Oxygen and other elements, so we end up spending a lot of energy to pull it free of those bonds ... but hopefully someday we'll figure it out how to generate it in bulk ... maybe an electrolysis process that uses solar or wind or wave action for its input power ... after all, if you believe Al Gore (and why wouldn't we, for without him we wouldn't be chatting in this forum), we're going to have an extra 20 feet of water over the entire planet in a few years, so we may as well make good use of it ...
Regards,
Greg
Hydrogen no, Plug-Ins yes...
by albizzia - 5/27/07 7:02 PM In reply to: Hybrids no, Hydrogen yes..... by ggguy77The reason H2 cars are not on the market is that H2 is extremely bulky, H2 storage is expensive and bulky, and H2 fuel is more expensive than gasoline. H2 fuel cells are prohibitively expensive, and H2 ICE cars suffer from high fuel costs, low efficiency and limited range. On the other hand, some electric cars and plug-in hybrids are already on the market, with more arriving soon.
Oil companies are the main boosters of the "hydrogen hiway", as they are the ones who want to sell this expensive new fuel, and they have the cheapest source of H2 - reacting fossil fuels (natural gas, oil) with steam at high temperature to get CO2 and H2.
Electricity is far less expensive than H2 or petrol or diesel, and it always will be. Electric cars and plug-in hybrids, even with high performance Lithium batteries, are far less expensive than H2 FC cars. Electric cars are much more efficient and cost much less to run than H2 cars.
Gas money isn't the only thing to factor into the equation
by KaplanMike - 5/2/07 8:27 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Kudos to all those V-8 lovin' folks. They certainly love you in Dubai, Saudi Arabia and at ExxonMobil.
The decision to buy a hybrid car (or biodiesel or whatever) shouldn't be made on the price of gas alone. Unless you're incredibly selfish, you really need to take into account the enormous hidden costs to maintain the current market system, which you pay through your Federal income tax. We pay to maintain the world's largest military, and we paid an extra half a trillion dollars (and counting) to force regime change in Iraq, in part (in large part) to protect, control and maintain the continuous flow of oil.
And, oh yeah, we support the terrorists with every gallon of oil we buy at hyper-inflated prices.
Oil prices were about $25/bbl before 9/11, but they're over $60 today. Did you ever ask yourself why? Sure, there's OPEC. But more than half of our oil is produced here, in the good ol' USA (from Texas, Alaska and California mostly). Why is gas from Houston and Sacramento twice as expensive as it was five years ago? Greed, and a system that makes no sense for Americans, but great profits for American oil companies.
Every person driving a hybrid -- ideally a plug-in hybrid -- gives OPEC that much less control over us. And when gas hits $4 a gallon this summer (it's already $3.50 here in L.A.), the payback will come even faster. To save the most with a hybrid, make sure you get the RIGHT hybrid. Some hybrids are engineered to make the car more powerful, rather than to improve gas mileage.
Ideally, someone will combine a biodiesel and an electric motor, and we can say NO to OPEC once and for all...
Ignorance is your friend.
by Andy77e - 5/5/07 2:35 PM In reply to: Gas money isn't the only thing to factor into the equation by KaplanMikeWhy does no one understand "supply and demand"? Are public schools so bad you are not taught this?
The arrogance of people here is amazing. Look if you don't want to import oil, then stop preventing us from getting oil here in America. The largest untapped supply of oil is in our land. The people who whiny and cry about Exxonmobil, and prevent them from dilling, YOU are the ones supporting imported oil.
Further, this garbage about the cost of oil before and after 9/11 is a joke. It isn't greed, it's supply and demand. The supply has been disrupted by a number of factors, Iraq being one of them.
Worse the people are having their faith in us shaken because our elected idiots are voting to cut supplies to our troops. They fear we'll lose the war because of those fools. If Iraq falls unto a civil war, Iran or some other external force will move in, and that spells bad news for the entire middle east. So yeah they are scared. And prices go up with instability.
You know nothing KaplanMike. Even if we were to convert over to Biodiesel, oil make thousands of products. Plastic, electronics, and millions more. Do you have plastic in your home Mikey? Do you have a computer Mikey? Then I guess you support terrorist too. Maybe you better sit down before you hurt yourself. Ugh... arrogant people.
OPEC and oil regs
by shadowsknight2000 - 5/9/07 10:28 PM In reply to: Gas money isn't the only thing to factor into the equation by KaplanMike[quote]But more than half of our oil is produced here, in the good ol' USA (from Texas, Alaska and California mostly). Why is gas from Houston and Sacramento twice as expensive as it was five years ago? Greed, and a system that makes no sense for Americans, but great profits for American oil companies.
[/quote]
Thanks to an agreement made between OPEC and the US many years ago we have our hands tied to producing only a small percentage of oil per rig. I am a truck driver in Texas and I deliver drill pipe to the new oil rigs every day. There is a law on the books that says that each rig can only put out so many barrels of oil each month so rigs are put on timers and monitors to start and stop on regular intervals. Each oil company is drilling as many rigs as they can right now on a lease because the regulation applies per rig not per field. A new oil rig from setup to production is only 6 weeks. There are field leases with hundred of rigs to overcome the regulations.
One bright spot is that GE and many others are putting up wind mills here in Texas faster than oil rigs.
I might buy a Hybrid some day in the Future.
by Ron Geiken - 5/2/07 8:27 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I only use about 35 to 40 gallons a month right now since I am retired, and my car is a 2003 with only 25,000 miles on it. Presently hybrid costs are too much to justify with the 600 to 800 miles a month that I drive. When I actually need to replace this car, will look at everything that is available and make my decision then.
Hybred car
by Hammerhead2006 - 5/2/07 8:38 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I own one and have had great use out of it for about 6 years now.
It is a CLUB CAR GOLF CART.
It is great as long as you are in no hurry and have roads where the max speed is 35 MPH or less as it is not legal in AZ to drive on highways with higher speeds so I can not go to town in it as the only link from where I live to the Town of Holbrook Arizona is INTERSTATE 40, as the State of Arizona in its infinite wisdom removed almost all traces of ROUTE 66, so that the only way around rural AZ is by interstate.
I love it though for getting around my local community as it sure saves gas for those 1 - 5 mile trips.
Glad I bought one
by rick_rodrick - 5/2/07 8:43 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have a 2000 Honda Insight that I bought in 2002. At that time I would have loved to buy a civic hybrid but we simply couldn't afford it. I was determined to buy a hybrid so we got the used Insight.
I am proud of the emissions I have not put in the air in the time since. The reason I believe in buying hybrids is because they are better alternatives for carbon emission. Gas mileage is great (I get 50 mph)but hopefully soon people will buy hybrids for the good they do for ALL of us not just for the good they do for each of us.
--Rick
Diesel-Electric
by walt554 - 5/2/07 8:59 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would buy a Diesel-Electric. Electric alone is distance limited and the only other way would be diesel-electric (or Bio-diesel-electric).
Electric is the only way
by meriwapomwa - 5/2/07 9:00 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
As I am a big guy I only feel well in a big car. Now I own a minivan and that is the ideal vehicle for us. So far there is no such vehicle available so my plans are on the back burner. I do not really like any fuel that has to be burned because it causes heat and pollution. With wind and water and sun we can produce enough electricity to run everything, provided the spineless politicians wake up one day and help defining higher standards for efficiency.
Surely a vehicle the size of a minivan needs a lot of power but right now the vehicle has to much of it. About two thirds would still do nicely. The roof could be for me in Florida like a tropical roof, i.e. a top one inch above the structurally needed main roof. That extra roof could host quite some amount of solar panels and even the hood and the windows could be used for the purpose. Extra power can come from the main power grid even though that seems to be in bad shape, too.
That would mean creativity but do you expect that from Ford or Chrysler or GM? No, but from Mercedes I expect that.
The other thing is that we do not have enough public transportation. It is an insult that costs us enormous amounts of roads with inept drivers and 40000 lives lost every year.
If no one thinks out of the box we are doomed to suffer in hell. Thanks to the oil and car industries! Help spread the word that the citizens want something great!
Never-considering the enviromental impact.
by fish4925 - 5/2/07 9:02 PM In reply to: Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
How much energy does it take to produce the average modern car? Although I haven't researched this aspect yet, I believe that it is much greater than 20 years ago. There is so much more in a car today. Electronic controls, computer modules, electronic gadgets, and other nifty devices in cars have to be produced somewhere. Most likely there are many more factories using up our natural resources to produce a car in this day and age than a couple of decades ago.
The typical hybrid car also has about 5 times the amount of batteries that a typical gasoling powered car. Most deep cycle batteries have a short life span compared to the expected life of a car. What happens to all the batteries after they will no longer hold a charge? They will all have to be rebuilt at a facilities that will use about 5 time the energy to rebuild 5 time the batteries from electric and hybrid cars. Almost all automotive batteries (including those in hybrids) are still lead acid batteries, i.e. hazardous waste!
So you just got that electric car and plugged it in to charge its batteries, where does the energy come from? In many areas of the US that energy will come from a coal fired plant. Is this not the type of energy source that we are trying to conserve? How about hydroelectric power? Did anyone consider the amount of diesel fuel that is burned up to create this type of energy source, or the negative environmental impact created by dams and reserviors? Although neuclear energy is cleaner, nobody wants that in their back yard!
Do you really want to make a positive impact on the environment? Don't buy that hybrid or electric car, walk or ride a bicycle!
a lot of oil to make a car
by michaelcvoigt - 5/2/07 9:12 PM In reply to: Never-considering the enviromental impact. by fish4925Good point, it probably takes 1000 gallons of oil to make a car. So it might be better for people to keep their cars for longer time periods.
I bought 2 hybrids to send the signal that we are fed up with Gas !! ... do anything, something about it.
They had a wonderful electric car in 1930, I should have never owned a gas car.
Watch ' who killed the electric car ' --- and focus on facts, and verify them for a unbiased view.
Sorry to break this to you
by Andy77e - 5/4/07 8:23 PM In reply to: a lot of oil to make a car by michaelcvoigtit takes a ton more oil to make a hybrid than a non-hybrid. So you didn't send any message. If you want to send a message, you better start riding a bike, and not using any product made with plastic, because oils used in all plastics. Also electronics use tons of oil, so sell your computer, your TV and alarm clock and everything else. Then maybe you'll send a message.
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