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Home audio & video: Oh no...you guys are killing me
I was mistaken on what you were talking about
by terryda - 4/30/07 7:48 PM In reply to: Have you heard otherwise? by jostenmeatI thought you were talking about audio amps and A/V receivers not BD players. Thats why I said bold statement. You will def. have to agree with me on that. Yes, the BD players are slim pickings at the moment. I don't look at them much since the tech is so new and still competing with HD-DVD. But as an EE I can assure you that Mcintoshs' are not brand name hoopla. I have cracked them open and seen what they have to offer. Im not sure exactly which series I was listening to but it wasnt a tube amp. It was push pull mosfets. And also I would consider Mcintosh more of an underground company than a mainstream brand name. They dont sell online, sell strictly to certified dealers, and dont advertise at all. But you may disagree, everyone has their dream amplifier setup.
Glad that you, as an EE can verify the innerds of McIntosh
by NM_Bill - 4/30/07 8:03 PM In reply to: I was mistaken on what you were talking about by terrydajustifies expensive stuff. After all those years of engineering & hand wiring in Binghampton, NY, they are now a small business volume (but prestigious) subsidiary owned by the company that also holds Denon & Marantz.
Much cache in those years of their blue lighted dials. Contrary to the typical business story of assuming the customer wants rock bottom price, good stuff can be made. But it's of the magnitude of comparing American auto workers wages to that paid in China.
Contrary to your assumption, McIntosh does do a little advertising in very upscale places. Certainly not hawked online. Without being up to date on them, still dreamy amplifiers I would think.
"Im not a tube fan except on electric guitar amps."
by jcrobso - 5/2/07 7:51 AM In reply to: Have you heard otherwise? by jostenmeatYou hit the nail on the head here!!!
Tubes have a very small amount of residual 2nd order harmonic distortion. This is what give tubes there sound!!!
Guitar players(I'm one)like this sound because it make the sound "Fat".
Tube HI-FI amps also have this sound but it is called "warm", some sound different name. Guitar amps will have more of this sound than HI-FI amps. Tube amps NEED maintenance!!!! As tube age the parameters change, and then they die. I had to replace the tube in my main transmitter last week. John
605 vs 674
by RustyDallas - 4/27/07 7:19 PM In reply to: just starting to learn about this stuff by jostenmeatOK, so now that the specs are out for the TX-SR 605, have I given anything up by switching to the 605 from the TX-SR674 other than 5 amps per channel? Could the 674 still be a better receiver? I have a Sony 60" XBR-2 1080P and use an HD cable box, an OPPO unscaling DVD player and I also run my computer to my TV. I don't have a game player and probably won't. I thought I had all of the answers until I just read an Onkyo AVS forum. As they refered to so many things I don't understand, I'm confused again.
I wish I knew what I was doing.
hey man I feel ya
by jostenmeat - 4/27/07 7:51 PM In reply to: 605 vs 674 by RustyDallasNo one can really answer for you. For me, personally, since i do have a budget receiver for now, I can wait, a bit at least. Some things to consider- really, how long after the propsed release date can you get your hands on one? There could be easily some huge backlog of orders, perhaps? Also, perhaps there are issues and bugs with all this brand new decoding abilities and hdmi 1.3? There are definitely some that are waiting out the possible bugs. Its a gamble either way, sorry, welcome to the world of electronics. Remember VHS vs Beta? You get my point.
Ok, so lets so everything is fine and dandy. No serious delay, and no bugs. Then I would definitely get the 605. Its future-proofed and almost the same amount of money as the 674, perhaps less? As you get decoding for Dts-MA, TrueHD. Plus DCDi upscaling and hdmi 1.3. IF YOU are pretty sure you won't care about this stuff- well then, buy the 674! 1. You can have it NOW! 2. two-room ability (according to you) 3. Wait for the new "bugs" to be ironed out before you ever do jump over the HD fence.
Didn't solve anything for you perhaps, but maybe laying out some questions you need to answer to help yourself out. cheerio.
to ben. yes we will definitely cyber some more sometime. you'd make Bill_NM proud with your Paradigm selection. 1000's nod in unison over svs. I hope bookshelves will do it for you, sometimes they can miss the "slam" (lower mid-bass). Also, a LOT of talk from the obsessed audiophiles about how ALL center channels suck due to MTM design (causes poor off-axis response), except for a handful of good top mounted selections such as B&W and Revel. Of course, if viewing angle is only straightforward, shouldnt matter. Well, anyways, stuff I've mulled over. For me, Im still confused as ever on how to get maximum music and HT. you know, not like 50/50, but more like 100/100. I very well may end up with FOUR different brands of speakers, ok including sub there too. (stewie winces)
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by ..ben - 4/28/07 12:23 PM In reply to: 605 vs 674 by RustyDallasThings that you shouldn't worry about because they're the same or very similar:
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Both the 674 and the 605 will upconvert 480i signals to 480p. The 605 might do it a bit better with it's name-brand processor, but who knows, it might not. Neither will add anything for your DVD, cable, or computer.
The DVD player will convert the 480i signal upto 1080i/p itself, so you can't really improve upon that at all (probably), and certainly not without jumping up several rungs on the receiver ladder.
Assuming a distance of 8' from the speakers (sensitivity rated at 90 dB), an extra 5W/ch will yield an additional .3 dB for maximum volume, and that's using all 7 speakers. I would consider the additional power a moot point.
While the 605 has HDMI 1.3, your TV does not, and thus makes IT the limiting factor in terms of video advantage down the road, e.g. DeepColor via HDMI 1.3.
They both have the same number of HD-capable VIDEO connections.
Things that are or may be different:
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The 674 has an awesome blue volume knob. 
The 674 has something called VLSC on all channels. It's supposed to improve the sound by helping in the digital-to-analog conversion. The 604, yes 4, has it on only the L and R channels; I couldn't find any info regarding the 605.
The 674 has a digital audio output. The 605 does not.
The 674 has nice terminals for its Zone 2. The 605 has crappy spring clips, which is weird since you'd want fatter wire running the (long) distance to Zone 2.
The 674 has 3 optical audio inputs. The 605 has 2.
The 605 will last longer and will give you more flexibility in terms of purchasing an HD player down the road because it has built-in decoders for the new audio codecs. Assuming there aren't any bugs...
The 605 is cheaper! Pre-order at $499 (free shipping). The cheapest 674 I could find was $582 delivered.
The 605 allows the back surround channels to be used to bi-amplify the Front L and R.
Some of the differences strike a chord with me, but not enough that I would get the 674. (even if it does have a cool volume knob)
Thanks Ben
by RustyDallas - 4/29/07 12:33 AM In reply to: - by ..benDo I gain anything from the 1.3 HDMI given that I own a Sony XBR-2? I didn't know my TV would prevent me from taking advantage of Deep Color. I probably will be adding either a Blu-Ray or a HD DVD someday but given the limitations of my TV, will 1.1 work just as well? The differance in price isn't that big of a deal to me but for what it's worth, the differance is 399.00 vs. 539.00.
I had noticed that I was giving up the cool blue knobs and it bums me out man!
Rusty
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by ..ben - 4/29/07 7:17 PM In reply to: Thanks Ben by RustyDallasDeepColor makes it possible to DESCRIBE lots of colors, colors that are beyond the range of most TVs, esp. non-plasmas (I think). But support for it doesn't mean that a TV can necessarily DISPLAY all those colors; it only means that the TV will know what the hell the source is trying to send it with all those extra 1s and 0s. Support for DeepColor is kinda moot for you, again I think, because non-plasma displays can't even generate all the possible colors. But as far as the "limitations of [your] TV".... LOL It's about as good a 1080p display as there is!
For you, and me, and pretty much most of the people who have bought, or will be buying even in the next year, HDMI 1.3 will allow for better sound first and foremost. DeepColor... well, I don't want to say it's a gimmick, cuz that's not the right word, but it's probably the video equivalent of like SACD or something: support for bandwidth that exceeds the wallets of most, and even if you can afford it, can your body even appreciate it? (for SACD, up to 50,000 or 100,000 Hz or something ridiculous like that)
I mean, come on. 20,000 Hz makes my ears tingle, but am I really hearing it? I'd say that's debatable. I guess technically yes I am, but it's not something that adds a whole lot to the aural experience for me. I'm not sure I even have ANY content that goes that high. And moreover, if someone put a low-pass filter on my speakers at 18kHz, I'm not sure that I'd notice... Anyway, screw DeepColor. Slapping 1.3-compatible HDMI ports on a TV doesn't make the TV able to display 10- or 12-bit color. It's a necessary part in making it happen, but there's more to it than that, and has a lot more to do with the nature of the hardware actually creating the light.
Make sense? Maybe I'm way off track here, but I hope/think not.
Anyway, at $400, it makes me want the 605 even more! It costs less, it's more Future-Ready(TM), it offers nearly identical performance in just about every category, and then adds some.... I know which one I'd get. But you still gotta make the final decision yourself.
Best,
Ben
Damn Ben
by jostenmeat - 5/2/07 12:16 PM In reply to: - by ..benTalk about spelling it out for the OP!
Hey, regarding the 20khz limit of hearing, there is some online literature out there about how frequencies "beyond" our hearing still affect the phase of the freqencies we do hear. They say it is perceptible. I can't quite remember, but I think Audioholics might have an article regarding this. Perhaps, like you say, debatable? Future-Ready(TM), lol.
Like many small argued factors like extreme viewing angle,
by NM_Bill - 5/2/07 1:38 PM In reply to: Damn Ben by jostenmeatrainbow concerns for those who don't see or are bothered by rainbow effect, contrast ratio beyond a level of sufficiency, glare arguments between plasma & LCD, refresh rate/response time/image lag or blur for all but the most demanding viewers, & super high resolution - for practical purposes these become non-issues for most of us.
Theme parks & major venues may need 24 channel sound, but no home use does. I've had significant hearing loss all my life, but am a long time audiophile wannabee. Good sound is always better. I probably can't distinctly hear anything above 10,000 Hz anyway.
Engineering distinctions are one thing, but when only measurable with test instruments, where is the practicality?
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by ..ben - 5/3/07 6:04 PM In reply to: Damn Ben by jostenmeatYou sure it wasn't titled The Psychoacoustic Effect of SACD? Lol, just kidding.
Lol, I got nervous at the title of your post; I thought maybe I had made some huge error...
Hey, if someone wants to give me a pair of speakers that can go that high, I'd be happy to push an agenda of their choosing. I may be poor and bitter, but I'm not close-minded.... 
I'll dig around and see if I can find that article. Thanks! Oh and speaking of poor, I think I'm going to order a SVS PB12-NSD tomorrow! Just gotta choose between white and silver... but with the $100 I'm saving (overstock clearance), I could probably buy a few cans of paint. Oh baby, xmas in May! I can't even imagine going a full octave CLEANLY below what I'm hearing now, but 18 Hz sure does sound good on paper. Pun intended. Even if I can't hear it, I can still use it as a fan!
Sorry for the hijack Randy. I'm just too excited...
B
ben, most excellent choice. I wonder if others will follow
by jostenmeat - 5/3/07 7:10 PM In reply to: - by ..bensuit. If the following link means anything to you, that is probably the best valued sub out there. You will notice the Ultra as well as the Axiom rate only 4 points higher, but are roughly 3x the cost. The next "best" value is the Hsu Ho+Turbo, and after that the JL113, which I just ordered. Figure, #1 I need servo control, and #2 it costs half the price of the DD-18. Other value reasoning invloved as well, if you can actually call it that. cheers
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768150&page=1&pp=30
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