Home audio & video: Oh no...you guys are killing me
Oh no...you guys are killing me
by RustyDallas - 4/25/07 10:21 AMI know nothing about this stuff but, after struggling with speakers, I finally got a game plan for speakers to go with the Onkto TX-SR674 reciever that I have ordered but not yet received. Now I see from a new post in here that the next generation Onkyo receivers will be here soon. I suspect that the TX-SR605's are on the same boat with my backordered speakers. As far as I can tell, that receiver dosen't seem to have two room capability which I want. Then, the TX-SR705 will apparently not be here until July which does have that capability. I'm already very impatient to get my stuff but should I wait? I guess what I would gain if I wait for th 705's is 1.3 inputs instead of the 1.1's on the 674 and DCDI video processing. Sounds cool but is it so cool that I have to wait all Summer?
Yet more help please.
Thanks
Rusty
New receivers..
by givemeaname - 4/25/07 10:48 AM In reply to: Oh no...you guys are killing me by RustyDallascompanies like to release a new A/V every 8 months, unlike most other products are every 12-18 months. Just get the one you picked, you will be happy.
If you wait, then you have to get a BluRay w/ hdmi 1.3 & a TV with hdmi 1.3!
Wait if...
by bevillan - 4/25/07 11:25 AM In reply to: Oh no...you guys are killing me by RustyDallasyou plan on getting a Blu-ray/HD-DVD player and if soundmodes like DTS-HD or TrueHD are important to you. Other than that the new receivers won't be that much different.
The HDMI 1.3 switching plus DTS-HD/TrueHD is what will push me to buy a new Onkyo in the next year or so.
just starting to learn about this stuff
by jostenmeat - 4/25/07 12:39 PM In reply to: Oh no...you guys are killing me by RustyDallasbut my 2 cents anyways. Here is something that I've posted here already, "2007 Onkyo AVR (TX-NR905, TX-SR875,805,705,605,575,505) Anticipation Thread"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=831063
As for video upscaling, only you can say if you need it. I have an upscaling dvd player, so Im fine here. (Don't have many components). If you do get upscaling, the superior models will have Reon (Silicon Optix) which should be clearly superior to Faroudja DCDi.
Some people are going to wait on the new receivers, so that any bugs or problems can be ironed out. There is also some technical details that are unknown about these things, very unfortunately, until someone actually takes the dive and buys one. Then the buyer posts the details, and hordes read up and ask. (you know, obscure stuff like bass management flexibility for analog inputs, etc)
For audio, I think*, you will only need hdmi 1.3 for Dts-MA (not to be confused with dts-HD) sent out as BITSTREAM (uncompressed from hi-def player). Otherwise, sent as pcm, you are fine. Someone please correct me if I am wrong here. TrueHD and dts-HD, you are fine no matter what as long as decoding is done either in the player or receiver. Even analog inputs are fine. Does the model you just bought have either hdmi 1.1 or 7.1 analog inputs. If only the analog inputs, you should be fine as long as the PLAYER CAN DECODE THE NEW FORMATS. unfortunately, many players do not decode all of the above. I don't think there is any player that decodes dts-ma yet, but hopefully eventually.
"Sounds cool but is it so cool that I have to wait all Summer?"
only you can answer . . .
almost forgot to add- some Onkyo's only have 5.1 analog inputs. That being said, I *think* that only the Panasonic Bluray player has 7.1 Outputs. But, again, I am very unfamiliar with this stuff, but starting to learn.
New Onkyo's
by RustyDallas - 4/25/07 1:53 PM In reply to: just starting to learn about this stuff by jostenmeatWhat about the Faroudja DCDI video processing? I have a Sony 60" XBR-2 1080P and don't see many artifacts but there are some. This is all new to me but I assume by cable box will run through the receiver too so maybe this feature is worth something? I don't intend to get a Blu-Ray soon. Someday I will but it seems Blue Ray will work with the 1.1 anyway. My current DVD player is the newest OPPO 1080P upscaler. I don't completely understand the features of the equipment I already have so I don't know if the new features on the new Onkyo's are already being handled by other components or not.
you should be fine
by jostenmeat - 4/25/07 3:25 PM In reply to: New Onkyo's by RustyDallasexactly, the DCDi will upscale your standard def dvd's. Otherwise, the two most expensive new Onkyo's slated for this year will take ALL of your inputs and upscale them. So I've read, who knows if this will be the case. So if you have numerous other components... See, I only have the dvd player and a cable box as sources. No video game system or anything else really attached.
Oh, almost forgot (keep doing that), careful about cable boxes going thru the receiver. Many, many, many cable boxes have "hdcp repeater" issues. Basically, your cable signal will die at the receiver. Need to have it go directly to the tv. But some cable boxes out there are ok. Also, the tried-and-true former and/or current professionals who roam this forum will say to simply connect your video inputs directly to the tv. After all, the more you cut up the signal, the greater the degradation. Guess you can try both and see.
As I mentioned, at least for what I believe today, hdmi 1.1 cannot handle DTS Master Audio sent as bitstream. Of course, if you do not plan on Bluray anytime soon, this is totally a moot point. Hence, I say "you should be fine".
PCM
by bevillan - 4/26/07 10:12 AM In reply to: just starting to learn about this stuff by jostenmeatSo I have always been alittle confused about what PCM audio is. On my Onkyo TX-SR803 I have a Direct Audio button that does very minimal audio processing to whatever signal it is sent. Would I use this for say DTS-HD if I don't have the DTS-HD specific decoder firmware?
Or would I just let my receiver go on its DTS mode and that can handle DTS-HD?
--
by ..ben - 4/26/07 12:41 PM In reply to: PCM by bevillanDTS-HD is an extension upon "regular" DTS. Any receiver with a "regular" DTS decoder can be used, using standard optical or coax digital audio cables, and it'll come through as a 1.5mbps bitstream (vs. 768kbps) in 5.1 audio. Hubba hubba!
Sources:
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-encore-audio.php
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/better-sound-today-perfect-sound-tomorrow.php
For DTS-HD MA, go here:
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-master-audio-with-existing-receiver.php
To answer your question.... just let the receiver handle it as if it were regular DTS.
still all new to me.
by jostenmeat - 4/26/07 4:26 PM In reply to: -- by ..benI believe ben is right about handling it as if it were regular dts. Problem is, thats all you'll get, regular dts. To take full advantage of dts-hd, you will need a decoder for dts-hd. Also, I think* I just learned that for 7.1 pcm, you need hdmi 1.3. However, I guess 5.1 pcm over hdmi 1.1 is fine . . . Hey you BD owners out there, this is true yes? As most of this is greek to me as well, and my memory does fail me time to time, I have the impression that it will take some time to find pervasive usage of dts-ma. cornfusing to me, maybe ben can enlighten us some more. some AVS links:
"Practical benefit of DTS-HD MA?"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=838182
"DTS-HD ma and TrueHD"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=819472
the above are from the BD player forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=149&page=2&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=35&daysprune=30
keep me updated as well ben and bear? thanks. Seems that Panasonic makes the best player for audio, and perhaps the only player with 7.1 analog outs. No player of any kind has dts-MA decoding yet. Samsung seems to be a good choice for video, considering value as well. People think that Panasonic will definitely upgrade their firmware to allow 1080p/24. Don't quote me on this. However, it hasn't happened yet, so if you want to rest absolutely assured, I would only buy a player that has everything you need out of the box. Myself, I would still probably lean towards Panasonic, if only because my fried has worked for them for over a decade...
--
by ..ben - 4/27/07 9:07 AM In reply to: still all new to me. by jostenmeatWell, it'll be 5.1, but it'll sound better because it'll be twice the bitrate as "regular" DTS. No you won't be able to take full advantage without a DTS-HD decoder (either built into the the Player or the Receiver), but I would liken the improvement to the difference between DTS and Dolby Digital (768kbps vs. 448kbps).
(not to turn this into a Golden Ear discussion, of course) 
Yes, Panasonic does make a (the only?) player with 8-ch outs.
I, too, still don't fully understand the whole PCM thing. But bfdtv and WirelessGuru seem to know what they're talking about. And I'd have to agree that, while I usually skip right over "extras", they're not going anywhere, and thus lossless codecs seem to be the only way to get the absolute best sound finding their way onto home theater discs, particularly HD-DVD coming in at only 25gb.
Great links!
Best,
Ben
thanks
by jostenmeat - 4/27/07 11:18 AM In reply to: -- by ..benfor the response and enlightening summation. Funny joke about the Golden Ear, haha. Always enjoy your posts here, seem to have an authentic altruism with something behind it. Anyways, enough blowing up your butt. Didnt know those #s with dts vs dolby. At double the bit rate for dts, thats gotta sound pretty sweet. As far as I've read, yes Panasonic makes the only player so far with 7.1 analog outs. I wonder if its possible that future firmware updates could possibly include dts-ma decoding. Seems like a tall order- What do I know. Excellent summation about the need for the new codecs, due to limited space on the discs. After all, that will allow more space to be used for even better video (which is what most people get excited about). Me? I've been highly anticipating the vastly improved sound! Cant wait... ben, do you own a hi def player? Anytime soon?
lol
by ..ben - 4/27/07 12:08 PM In reply to: thanks by jostenmeatWell, thanks. I'm always impressed by your posts actually. Hey, if there's anyone on here whose gear would be able to put the new codecs to good use, it'd be yours... as soon as you buy some.
I'm in no condition to be looking at speakers, but if I were, I'd want you to come with me. But anyway, we can cyber later.
I have a PS3, but my receiver is a Marantz SR5200 on which I performed a motherboard transplant a month ago (funny story actually, met a cute girl out of it), but I don't know if it'll handle 5.1 PCM. Anyway, HDMI was just a glimmer in some nerd's eye at that time I bought it. I don't know offhand if the PS3 supports 5.1 PCM from the optical out either, but I haven't anything to test it with anyway. The XMB (home screen like on the PSP) uses 2-ch PCM but that's neither here nor there. None of the movie trailers I've downloaded play back in surround; maybe it's limited 2-ch PCM over optical, maybe it's the receiver. I never thought about what I might be missing...until now. Thanks a lot! lol
I've been waiting months for the specs on the new Onkyo receivers to come out. Short of some major event, I anticipate getting one within the next 12 months. First comes some ADP-190s and a SVS PCi, though.
Best,
Ben
Panasonic Best??? Bold Call
by terryda - 4/28/07 8:18 PM In reply to: still all new to me. by jostenmeatOnkyo, Pioneer Elite, Denon, Harmon/Kardon, and those are the big companies. Don't get me started on the smaller companies, but I do have to throw out my favorite McIntosh.
"0" TERRY DONT MENTION MCINTOCH I WILL CRY
by stewart norrie - 4/29/07 9:45 AM In reply to: Panasonic Best??? Bold Call by terrydaYears ago I had a set of MC-60s whech were stolon still dream about them as far as d.t.s. and d.d. goMy blue ray player hooked up to my old Denon 3805 via optical audio cables playes d.t.d. just fine also some of my d.v.d. movies are incoded in d.t.s. 7.1 ext. so cool the input display switches from 5.1. to 7.1 and those puppies on the back wall cut inas far as 1.3. and newer sound formats go I believe its all hype you are not going to hear anything better than d.t.s. sorry stewe
Have you heard otherwise?
by jostenmeat - 4/29/07 12:06 PM In reply to: Panasonic Best??? Bold Call by terrydaI believe I did say "it seems" for "audio". I did mention others are superior for video. Do you have any information to the contrary? If you do not, why would it be a Bold statement. Its not like there are a ton of BD players to choose from you know . . . Without any other specs on hand, it is the only player with 7.1 analog outs? Not a big deal to all, but to me its worth something. You and I both forgot Yamaha.
What speakers have you listened to powered by McIntosh? I think they are overpriced. Its pure name brand for some. Amazing stories from my local audio dealers how much effort it takes to steer someone away from McIntosh when considering particular speakers or setups. One ultra-hi-end guy simply refused to sell it to the customer, because he knew the client was going to be sorely disappointed. It was at his store that I listened to $90,000 Utopias powered by McIntosh. A different dealer could not convince otherwise, because client said it was a childhood dream to own McIntosh. Even if it meant compromising the sound. Brand name hoopla. Im not a tube fan except on electric guitar amps. I want control and detail, not veiled warmth. I've listened to Rogue (another tube. Sounds fine for just 1k), Krell, Cambridge, Rotel, Primare, Sunfire, NAD, others. I think I enjoy the Primare the most, but the amp was $7k I believe.
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