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Community Newsletter: Q&A: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use?
- 3/23/07 12:14 PM
p2p like Lime Wire
by Earlgreyteahead - 3/18/07 3:29 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I use another p2p program to download music, and frankly i even hear from new musicians,even they don't make a dime they are proud to know thousands of ppl download their music.
Many of the bands i have on my H D i also have in cd's AND vinyl,also many music i bought just to dj one or two numbers in a far past is dear to me.
The music i have in my H D is like having a collection of things found in fleamarkets. the quality is mostly poor ,but it has his charms.
I personaly use it to dj my own car music,thats something impossible to buy legaly,cos other dj's always suck,with exception of one or two like dj Maestro.
To be honest i dont think people will ever buy so many records as they download,and for the most, if you really like something, then its obvious to buy it.
Why dont they start where it all started? How about second hand shops selling cd's? if i buy a cd for two or three bucks, i am not paying any rights anymore, and i am the second or third to own it.
There are huge "interchange"music markets, and all legal.
Collectors markets,all legal.
The internet is full of second hand cd's, all legal.
Cafe's ,clubs, and musac industry (elevators,mall,s,supermarket,you name it)they pay the rights to perform the music,does every penny goes to the musicians? as a matter of fact maybe no more than 10% in most countries.its not the musicians nagging only,or the recordlabels,
its our society pimps, ....yes yes,our governament .they keep most of the money,here in Europe they do.
And last but not least, we all admire pirates,dont we?
And yes, to download music just because you dont want to buy any,thats notdone,very notdone.
Teahead
Limewire
by onebigal98 - 3/18/07 4:35 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
In my opinion, the legality IS a BIG question. I have heard some artists state that if people download their (the artists) music from a P2P site it is better than not having people hear their music at all. Downloaders may actually go out and buy a CD if they have downloaded some of the artists tunes and they like the mucic. Additionally, I have thousands of tunes in my library from CD's which I purchased and ripped to my computer. Those files are MINE to do with as I choose. If I choose to make a friend a CD from those tunes, that is MY business. To me it is the same argument that was offered when VCR's first hit the market. Pepole were afraid that the big movie companies would sue them for taping copyrighted movies. Everyone seemed sure that the recording of movies on your VCR would destroy the movie industry. The doomsayers said people would stop going to the movies. After all the furor died out, people continued to record movies to watch at home. Not everyone had a VCR so those who didn't continued to go to the movies. Guess what?? The movie industry is bigger than ever. More to the point, not everyone owns a PC and of those who do, not all of them even know HOW to download music from these P2P sites. Sorry for such a long answer, but I feel better now!!!!
Piracy
by durant125 - 3/19/07 4:34 AM In reply to: Limewire by onebigal98could not agree with u more onebigal98
on a further note as for morals and ethics not everything is so black and white. as soon as i see U2 in a $140,000 house (cheap now a days) struggling to make their mortgage, ill throw them a bone. until then ill download their music for free unless they drop their prices to a reasonable rate, like under the price of a 16 oz t-bone that helps u LIVE! U know iron and protein, etc. but i will help the struggling artist tryin to make it big by going to a show.
The Pirate signing off
Argghh ... the plunder is ripe for the pickens
Forget U2 what about...
by peterCIS - 3/19/07 6:38 AM In reply to: Piracy by durant125It's the folks that work for the recording company, not the Execs, the poor slob working in the studio doing mixing, even the cleaning, with a few kids a house and taxes, trying to scrape by. There are hundreds, no thousands of people like this, and those that work in and around the edges that you are stiffing. Your 10 (or maybe 10,000) songs you download for free plus all the other people doing the same add up. Do you think that the recording Ecec or the big name artists that are going to take the hit, no way, it's always the little guy that gets the shaft. And No, I do not work in the industry.
WHo gets the Shaft?
by durant125 - 3/19/07 6:41 PM In reply to: Forget U2 what about... by peterCISIm pretty sure only the people that are part of the band and the execs of the label get commission (part of the sale) the people working in the actual studio are probably salary or hourly. That means they probably dont get the shaft. If the record label assuming they are the ones that own the studio wants to cut their pay to keep their own net income the same, dont look to put the blame on me!
Eventually, you get the shaft
by David Eaton Productions - 3/25/07 3:32 PM In reply to: WHo gets the Shaft? by durant125Imagine, if you will, that sporting venues would let you in with a ticket that was copied on your office copier. Every event would be filled to the brim, but there would be very little money to run the sport. Everyone, from the coaches to the peanut vendors would not be paid, as there would be no revenue to pay them. 'Farm clubs' would dissappear, so new talent would not be developed, and anyone with talent would quickly consider another career, just to pay the bills.
How long do you think the sports would be interesting?
Not immediately, but in relatively short time, the level of play would drop to that at a local park on weekends. And you can already see that for free.
Who gets the shaft? Everybody involved and, eventually, you - the fan.
P2P=Virus+Sypware+Adware
by peterCIS - 3/19/07 6:22 AM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Yes it is illegal to share copyrighted material, period.
Legal issues aside, I have worked on hundreds of computers, and EVERY computer that was actively using P2P software had virus, spyware, adware or other malware on it. Stay safe and buy your music.
Urban Legend
by topazg - 3/19/07 6:50 AM In reply to: P2P=Virus+Sypware+Adware by peterCISI have also worked with hundreds of machines, and have found that most computers have virus/spyware or adware on (about 60-70% of cases). I have seen little to no association between P2P and an _increase_ in malware in any of these cases.
This is an urban legend designed to deter P2P use (which is still often legit use). Protect your comp, scan files you download, and this isn't an issue.
Does it make any difference if music is only streamed?
by ChrisInteractive - 3/19/07 6:31 AM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My understanding is that holding a copyrighted music track is not unlawful in itself, but knowingly enabling somebody else to receive and hold that material may be unlawful. I feel reasonably OK about ripping a track from a CD I have paid for, or licensed, in order to listen to it on my MP3 player. However, if I put that track somewhere which allows a friend to 'copy' it for their own use, that is almost certainly outside of my lisensed rights.
As a software consultant (vested interest declared), I recommend a P2P style product called 'Diino' which allows anyone to store and share folders securely across the web. If the user sellects to share mp3 music tracks they have the option to set "Stream-Only" permissions - so a music track is not actually copied by anyone else, it can just be listened to.
Does this make any difference to the 'legal' issue of P2P networking?
This is more like personal internet radio. The music is still subject to copyright, so should a user have some kind of broadcast license?
Sony Licensing
by topazg - 3/19/07 6:51 AM In reply to: Does it make any difference if music is only streamed? by ChrisInteractiveFrom memory, some recent Sony EULAs on CDs actually forbid the owner to rip the music to the hard drive now. I have a feeling this is now common practice and thus I suspect it is illegal to do this with most modern bought music.
crappy sound devices
by verdyp - 3/19/07 9:04 PM In reply to: Sony Licensing by topazgForbidding CD ripping to PC harddrive is stupid. It does not extend the number of person that can listen the music, given that you have already bought the CD with the licence to have a full right to listen it on any CD players (not only the CD player of your crappy PC with so poor sound).
So use a true audio device, not your PC with its poor audio output, and that is not so practical to use (playing a CD on a PC consumes PC resources, and you may have better things to do on a PC that require using your CD reader for something else, or to use your processor and work memory for working with your own applications or playing your games).
The main problem being that CD players are not so great, given that they are not mobile. (Mobile CD players exist but they are too fragile), so you need a way to transfer it to something more mobile like a memory card or MP3 player that you can easily transport; the second problem is that the MP3 format, or even the DRM-protected WMA or Apple-iTunes format are not so great to hear: you pay a lot for a poor audio quality, which makes listening that in mobility a very bad experience for your ears.
So, in all cases, we need to keep the possibility of playing the music we bought onto other devices; don't forget also that any device or support is likely to fail sometime (that's why we also have a permanent backup solution, and why we also PAY for those extra support medias where we can put the backups).
But with all those crappy-sound legal downloads that you pay, and that restrict your legal rights for backup solutions, the only alternative is then to use P2P as a backup solution. Downloading your personal copy for transfering the music you have bought legally, to another device is definitely not unlawful.
What will happen if you get "caught" downloading copyrighted material from the Internet (using P2P programs or not)? Really, what will happen is that you'll get a chance to prove that you have paid the licences for the music you are supposed to have downloaded. Note also that nothing can be demonstrated legally unless they come at your home; a "trace" found on the Internet is just a suspicion, but definitely not a valid proof.
Remember also that private companies surveying the Internet to find who are transfering files without licences are unable to request you anything directly; they have to ask to the justiciary system, and get valid proofs with the help of assermented people (policemen in your home). You won't be arrested for that because it is not a criminal action but a civil action made a private parties regarding their private interests that you are said to have abused.
No, really, downloading music or films from the Internet is not illegal, so is the use of P2P programs, and so the programs themselves. These are just tools, but they don't create the crime. The only legal concern is not even the absence of payment, but the absence of a licencefor the downloaded copyrighted media.
Now, don't fear so much! even if you get caught for a single download, as long as you pay just after for the medias you like (or you delete the crap you don't like), nothing is wrong here. You can easily demonstrate that you have paid those licences only for the medias you like, and destroyed all the others. And with those downloads, you will have the possibility to know more artists, and pay only for the medias that are really good for you.
nd you'll go to their concerts, you'll subscribe to hear their exclusive events they participate in (pay TV...), or buy derived products (including magazines, and merchandizes...)
Really, a P2P program is not dangerous to have, but you have a moral and legal obligation if you use it to get the licences in some way, and the best that music/film makers can do is not by lying to customers with false legal threats, and not by limiting their legal consumer rights, but really by easing the process of getting valid licences (including through partner channels, like bundled products).
Why would the music/film business feel it must continue to live isolated without making business alliances? Every other business lives with such alliances, and in fact it's the definition of business, and they need to realize that if they want to live with their productions. But they have chosen really the wrong place to protect their assets, and certainly the place that is the most costly for them to protect: attacking billions of customers, instead of attacking the retail channels and protecting their few business "allies", or finding better allies than the existing distributors that do not make their job and lack innovative market solutions to make the sold products more attractive to consumers!
They have forgotten why music sales through the Internet is easier than through classic stores: usability, and ease of access to wider catalogs. IT's up to them to compenssate with better offers, rather than fighting against their own customers and their legitimate rights!
And don't be fooled by statistics! The major copyright abuses are not made by consumers but really by distributors that do not pay the producers for the correct amount of licences they have sold to consumers.
Streaming and Copyright...
by David Eaton Productions - 3/19/07 3:08 PM In reply to: Does it make any difference if music is only streamed? by ChrisInteractiveIt is my understanding that streaming music is Copyright protected under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998:
http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
so, one must pay for streaming.
Unethical?
by tjm626 - 3/19/07 8:09 AM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
From what I understand, downloading copywrited music off those things is not illegal. Sharing is. I'd be really careful with the RIAA lawsuits.
Back in the day before the RIAA crackdowns on file sharing programs hit I used a few. I got a bunch of trojans and viruses, along with a bunch of fake files placed on those things usually by the bands, or record companies themselves.
I'd say try something legal like Rhapsody or Yahoo Music Jukebox. You pay like seven to ten bucks a month and you can listen all you want.
P2P
by adamski98 - 3/19/07 11:34 AM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Hi there.
If thing like movies and music are avalable to people on these applications then they should be illegal, but seeing that they are not why not download as much as you can.
Adamski
Peer-to-peer
by nfortin - 3/19/07 4:42 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I would like to tell you my experience, personel i do't think that save, and there some musics that's not correspond to what you are loking for! You can try it and make your own experience.
Best regards. Patrick
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