Community Newsletter: Q&A: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use?
- 3/23/07 12:14 PM
here's the difference...
by David Eaton Productions - 3/17/07 11:38 AM In reply to: my 2 cents by tinman1275If you have a bunch of people over to your home and play the music, it is perfectly legal because you are not making 'copies' that they are taking a copy home with them.
If you were to burn a CD for each of them, that is making a 'copy' and the 'copyright' law gives the right to control that to the creator of the music.
You also point out the ADVANTAGE that many artists have enjoyed by sharing of music - that new fans are sometimes found that end up purchasing the music, buying concert tickets, and spreading the art. The key to the law is, the owner of the art should have the right to decide whether to allow, or prevent, that from being done without the owner being compensated.
If the evidence supported that by allowing free copying, more records were being sold, I can assure you that the RIAA would be promoting the practice. For years, radio has provided free access and increased record sales. But if you look at the sales figures, the opposite happened with the introduction of P2P.
There is a huge difference.
by snerk - 3/17/07 10:34 AM In reply to: Legal or Not Legal - Good Question by trin911When you copy an LP or a Cassette or even a CD to a cassette, there is a loss of quality. Furthermore, the tape wears out with each play. Plus, this was done a minute fraction of the amount that downloading from the internet is done.
It is now possible for some idiot that works at a studio or with the band to leak the album, thereby allowing every person to steal it before it even hits the shelves, potentially causing the album to not sell a single copy.
p2p software
by roushracing - 3/16/07 6:34 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My oppinion on this matter is that first of all i buy all of my music and programs,games...but i think if you own lets say a cd.....you should have the right to share with others...it is your choice no one elses...if i buy no one can tell me not to copy it and give to my friends...just my oppinion
It's not the same
by TRM_Agouti - 3/16/07 7:45 PM In reply to: p2p software by roushracingWhen you but software, you do not own it. It's a form of rent, for an unlimited amount of time
What you own is...
by David Eaton Productions - 3/17/07 9:09 AM In reply to: It's not the same by TRM_AgoutiWhen you purchase software, you are actually buying a 'license' to use the software, but not to share it. The details are found in the fine print, on the packaging and the first windows of the installation process, which we usually don't read - myself included.
Legal
by wizardb - 3/16/07 6:42 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
In Canada and many other countries it is perfectly legal to use and share music !!!
Let's Rethink This
by F.A.$.T. - 3/16/07 7:26 PM In reply to: Legal by wizardbWhat's moral and what's legal are two different things. In my opinion, to be is an artist is to be like a priest, it's a way of life where you can't expect to make any money. Can you you call yourself an artist and expect to make money? The recording industry, the ones who profit the most off music, would like to make you believe that music should only be enjoyed by those who can afford it. I think we as citizens should stand up to these corporate tyrants. If I worked for three years on a work of art I would want millions of people to see, especially those who can't afford to see it. Art should be freely enjoyed by everyone and anyone.
It's easy for the RIAA to track you on Limewire, leaving you vulnerable. Write them a letter, send them a message. Don't let them strip music of the art, don't let them reduce it to a business. Here in Canada, downloading music is legal. Send your politicians the message that the RIAA is headed in the wrong direction, and that the right to profit off music is fundamentally flawed.
I use it
by hallgame - 3/16/07 6:51 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have never run into a problem with malware, spyware or any viruses with P2P but I do also keep my anti-spyware and anti-virus up-to-date. I do not download very much but it is nice to have the capability. Legally, I put this in the category of a radar detector -- if the signal is available then I have the right to receive the info off the signal. Now someone may not be authorized to send certain info but once sent it is available to any capable of receiving it. This is the basic idea for why the FCC cannot outlaw radar protectors. If the police can send out a signal then I have the right to receive the signal.
Limewire et al have a hidden problem I found
by Gerald Murphy - 3/16/07 7:18 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
It's been some time since I had Limewire on this beast, but I found a few things about it that must be top secret since so few people have any clue about this aspect. When installed, this software, like so many others, sets things up to certain defaults. I call these THE faults. The one that causes most people grief and they don't even realize it, is in the area of Tools, Settings, Options. After installing this program, check out these default options and learn that the default shared directory is the SAME directory that nearly ALL other programs use for their defaults. I recall noticing that one party who was connected to me was a CPA, and he had saved all his work for clients, using various filenames, in his Documents directory, and Limewire had assigned that as his default shared directory. So all that client tax work, including social security numbers! was broadcast to the world, to whoever connected to him and bothered to check what he had available. There were other things available to the masses that had no business being out there. I downloaded just enough of those files to determine an email or some other address of the many uninformed and gullible folks and advised them of what they had done to themselves. Then I quickly erased their stuff from my system since I surely had no further need of it. Folks who install ANY new software on their systems need to be very careful of what they have instructed their machines to do. Limewire will share all your private files to the world if you are not careful about directory choices. I didn't keep Limewire on my system very long since I didn't like the neighborhood, and I surely didn't like the malware that came along with everything else.
legal or not legal
by Angelknight36 - 3/16/07 7:24 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
it is and it isn't. P2P sharing programs are very popular but you still have to watch what you download. It is not legal and I do know some people that were taken to court for downloading from such sites. However as with anything there is a loophole. The loophole is that if you have already bought the CD or an old tape and such you can download the songs that you own already and if you can prove that you have bought the tape or CD you can freely download the songs from them without fear of being tried for some offence to the artist. But if you already have the CD's what is the use to download them anyway. To me it is moraly wrong to do so unless you pay for the songs that you download. What ever happend to supporting the artist whos music you are willing to download but not buy?
Depends
by TRM_Agouti - 3/16/07 7:52 PM In reply to: legal or not legal by Angelknight36Depends on the country/state. Some places it is, some it isn't. It's not legal here in my state in Australia to own or make any copies of any copyrighted material - even, as I do, making copies of CDs for the car so your originals don't get knocked about (they only last about 3 months with me 
).
It's safe and legal, but...
by gevantry - 3/16/07 7:38 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I once used apps like Limewire and Acquisition routinely, but lately have stopped. I have a huge collection of music on vinyl LPs and cassette tapes, well over a thousand albums bought over 30 years. While most of the vinyl is still playable, the media has decayed and it is, frankly, expensive to maintain my old turntables. As needles and drive belts become less in demand, their replacement cost has shot up.
Most of the tapes, despite being high quality metal, squeal and squeak. I was facing the unhappy prospect of having to repurchase CD replacements (when they were available), but with P2P software I had an ideal way to get archival copies of the tunes I had already bought. It took me about three years to track down copies of the material I had already bought, and with my collection more-or-less restored, I don't have much need for the P2P apps.
In the process, I discovered access to a lot of other music I had never heard of, and as a result my purchases of music went from around $200 a year to over $1200 a year. Downloaded music just doesn't have the quality of the tracks burned to commercial CDs, so I always buy those.
It doesn't bother me if people use P2P software to get digital archival copies of music they already own on analog media. They already paid for the right to have and to listen to it, no matter when they bought it. Likewise, they are not breaking any laws by getting and keeping (or making) copies of what they already own, provided that they do not redistribute those copies.
This is the unsafe part of using P2P. All of the apps by default start to redistribute to the network what you are downloading. While it may be legal for you to download your archival copy, unless you are careful with the P2P app's settings, you will find yourself pulled into illegally distributing material to people who haven't bought the originals.
Is Limewire legal and safe?
by Dewain Willmore - 3/16/07 7:42 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
To All Conserning the Legal and Safe end of Limewire!
What would help solve the problem for both questions.
Set up a one time Fee that pays for BOTH ISSUES!
Sincerly your,
D. Willmore
P2P, it's not a simple matter
by TRM_Agouti - 3/16/07 7:49 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have to say, this has been one seriously interesting thread to read through. Now, I have to say, I am absolutely terrible software/music pirater (a word?), I would have in excess of 15k music tracks on my computer, a mix of bought and not, and a hard-drive full of software/games, most of it not payed for, but - I guess me and my friends try to take a middle road. This may seem like a laughable comment, but I will try and explain what I mean.
The way I see it, the biggest - and pretty much only - problem with P2P (the ones without spyware and such), and other forms of distributing copyrighted content (such as LANs) is that you are using, in some way, someone else's hard work, without paying them whats due. This, as I see it, IS NOT stealing - you have in no way removed anything from their possession, or in anyway hurt them - you may have not helped them, but that is not the same. Calling it robbing or stealing is like saying if you watch a TV in one of those mega stores for 20 minuets, you're stealing, because you haven't paid for the TV. Or not watching the ads on the TV - because watching them is your form of payment for getting to see the show (being how the TV company makes money and covers the bills)
Incidentaly, recording TV shows on your VCR IS a form of piracy, and is, or was, technically illegal in most countries. So don't think your all high-and-mighty because you dont download music - I'm willing to bet you have tapes of shows or movies, which, by the same logic, since you in all probability didn't buy the DVD box set, is "stealing".
In fact, when the VCR first came out there was a big legal 'discussion' over whether a VCR was illegal - because it's only practical use was the breaching of copyright, through taping shows. Funnily enough the exact same thing happened with CD burners, and with P2P.
Note that when you "buy" media or software, it's not like buying a car - you DO NOT own said media/software. You merely have rented it for an indefinite amount of time. If you read EULA's, which you will see at the beginning of any software installation, it is repeated over and over, admittedly in jargon, that your only right through buying this software is to use it within the following bounds - etc etc. For instance, you cannot sell even the original disc on to anyone. The only exception is open source, which is limited to saying "You can not sell this for profit in any way", although you can distribute it and charge for the costs of that, within bounds, depending on the program.
Incidentally, Bittorrent, which most of you will have heard of, was originally invented for the distribution of various Linux installations, a open source operating system on which both Mac OS X and Unix is based on.
For me, if I was never, ever going to buy it in the first place - like, for instance, Photoshop CS2 which is into the thousands of dollars, then they have not been hurt by my possession of it - of course, that does not hold true for distributing it, how do I know whether the person I am uploading too was going to buy it before he found it on my hard-drive?
That being said, however....
I treat P2P as a "Try Before You Buy" system. I will usually, unless it's an artist I am familiar with and like, download music before buying a CD. However if I do like theD, I feel that I owe them something for the enjoyment I got out of listening to the music, same as you would chip in for petrol when car pooling or such. Especially with independent labels.
In terms of software, I use where possible all open source - and therefore free in all the best ways - but I have made regular donations to the various foundations of the software I use regularly - such as Mozilla - for the exact same reason.
Though, somehow, I find it hard to shed a tear for the lost sales of the corporate megaliths, such as Microsoft, EA, Adobe etc etc. Much as I would like to part with my hard earned dollars to add a bonus on to some CEO's paycheck,I just cant ever seem to do it.
Especially when half of the - what I call "software pimps", companies like EA Games (basically the software version of record labels) - which just churn out the software, full of bugs and problems, only offer small royalties to the actual companies who wrote them, and never bother to fix them. Once you have bought it, you offer no income - who cares about you?
The bottom line, people might want to make high-and-mighty comments over my cracked Windows XP, or your downloaded music collection, but I give where it, in my opinion, is due, and thats enough for me.
In the end it's all a personal choice - you are not hurting them through not buying the media any more than you are when you borrow a friends book instead of buying it, or your local greengrocer by going to the supermarket. You just have to ask yourself: do they deserve something for what I got out of their work?
LimeWire in a nutshell
by emoryu21 - 3/16/07 8:04 PM In reply to: Is peer-to-peer software such as LimeWire legal and safe to use? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Ok here's the jist of it. I have LimeWire on my computer. I always will to. It's a very good program and I know MANY people who use it to download music (legally or illegally) It is NOT illegal to own LimeWire or BitComet or any P2P program on the market. Some have built up companies to sell products on P2P programs. Torrents being the best that I know of. The only thing that's unsafe about them is if you don't have ANY internet protection... I'm talking about a full suit of programs here. I'll use the programs till the day I die. I get a song stuck in my head I go there and download it. Thing is I have the intention of buying EVERY single song I download. That's my way around the legality of it all. I think it's a matter of personal oppinion. Instead of bring yourself, and others, into a huge light such as CNET. Go look up these kinda things on wikipedia.org I wont tell you to go out and download it. It's a risk you have to evaluate and then act on it all on your own. Limewire is just one of MANY programs. If it was totally illegal and unsafe then it wouldn't be so widely used. The safty is a bit harsh on limewire at first... same with any P2P program... you just gotta learn the ropes. I learned the tricks of the programs very quickly. Trial and error is the best way to approach any new software or unexplored area of computer/program/internet fellowship
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