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Windows Vista: Windows Vista Bugs
Once bitten... twice shy..
by flabbygums - 3/14/07 9:24 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamI'm a developer who has used windows in some way since it began. I think Microsoft is absolutely to blame. What did Steve Balmer say at the height of when they were supposed to release Vista for the first of 4 times? "We're going to _____ kill Google". MS has spent all their time and energy on competing with every product Google makes and vice versa. I wish Google would stick to search and let MS stick to an OS. It's too late for microsoft now. I believe Sun/Google will have a hosted OS within 10 years...potentially a crushing blow to MS. And it's MS's own fault for not doing what they do best. For all the Microsoft territory Google has thrown their hat into, they still have THE best search engine. Yahoo is busy trying to be a portal AND a search engine...and failing. In the end, the consumer suffers like these people now having Vista problems. I will not even think of upgrading to vista for at least a year from today...just like I waited for XP. I don't know if it's 100% true, but i read the kernel for Vista is still the exact as XP Pro, and will not really be the longhorn Kernel until the 1st or 2nd Service Pack of vista... and for god sakes.. vendors had 5+ years to make drivers for Vista so shame on them too.
This always happens
by zena3546 - 3/14/07 9:24 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamWhen a new OS comes out, there are ALWAYS bugs. and i agree that most of it has to do with other companies not updating there software to be compatible. I suggest people wait a little while till Vista has been out for awhile then upgrade and then only after checking to see if there are updates for all there software and drivers. it may sound like too much work, but in the end, it is all worth it. This is what I do everytime and I dont go through the grief everyone else does. you just have to be patient and let the other software companies catch up. YES they should have already been prepared but most are not.
Avoid the Noid...
by creativecaptions - 3/14/07 9:24 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamMicrosoft is to blame...their delays make it difficult for all but the big companies to stay up with their OS development, and most of the "Big Name" PC makers historically have used no-name parts to build their systems, many times having them modified so the retail version's drivers are incompatible, leaving the part orphaned when that models run is over, forcing you to orphan your PC if you want the new OS.
In contrast, compare upgrading costs between Microsoft and Apple. If you have 5 machines in your house, it would cost $1895 on Amazon to buy the latest greatest Vista for those machines. IF, you don't need new hardware and can upgrade, $1,395... To upgrade 5 Macs to the latest, greatest OS X and iLife and iWork: $350 (on Amazon). I have a 5 year old iMac that runs them all just fine, no new hardware was needed. I've seen G3's running Tiger without a hitch. You can do a lot more with that $350 than with just Vista. For the price of upgrading to Vista, you can upgrade your old Mac's and buy a new Mac..or two. When you throw in the cost of the new hardware you will most likely need to run Vista, you could probably buy a couple more Macs. Oh, yea, you'll need Virus protection and Spyware protection that may or may not cost you money, but will take away massive amounts of resources while it sometimes keeps you safe...and then there's the pesky reloads when the Spyware welds itself to your registry. Deleting an entire program from an Apple is usually as simple as dragging an icon or as tough as dragging a folder to the trash bin. None of the registry clean up that slows windows to a crawl...
Fault? Who is at fault for what?
by stlaw01 - 3/14/07 9:31 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photoham(This Post is actually to anyone that reads this, not aimed at photoham.) Hmmm…. Seems a new OS is released in 2007! Wasn't there a new OS released in 2002, like Windows XP? Have we forgotten the problems with the release of Windows XP? My memory is fuzzy, for certain, but that was quite an advanced in Operating Systems over Windows 9x. It seems as many problems were created then, as now. This is expected. So everyone is not running on the same clock to release their drivers and 64 bit software. Not all software and hardware share equal complexities. Give each vender time; a year? …More, maybe? For now, one should make a dual-boot; keep and/or first install Windows XP and then make a clean install of Windows Vista Business, Home Premium, or best, Windows Vista Ultimate, as the second OS. I will continue serious use of my trouble-free Windows XP (32 bit) platform and play with Windows Vista (64 bit on the Athlon 64 X2 platform) until all the hardware, drivers, and software I wish to use are replaced and/or updated. When the day the Vista side of my computer out-performs the XP side, then Windows Vista will become my primary OS. Windows XP will fade into the background as Windows ME and Windows 2000 did. I'm in no hurry, as 3rd party venders will develop better products when not rushed! As I find the time, I plan to enjoy tinkering with my new VISTA. Even reload it if need be...for I'm sure to "over-tinker" as usual...how else to discover what a new OS will do? I've already installed Microsoft Office Ultimate (2007) and what a sweet package this is. This is a very nice upgrade to the old Office 2003 Professional which seemed like a warmed over Office 2000 PRO (my opinion). The Outlook 2007 is great and Excel, Word, Access, Publisher have a most useful set of big tool bars/menus! I’m only learning what more I can do now! Yes, I stumble while learning….the learning curve has not peaked. Oh! My first hardware update arrived today. I had to change from a Linksys EG1032-V3 1GHz NIC to an Intel PRO/1000 PT Desktop NIC. Seems the EG1032-V3 is a 32 bit only NIC and headed to a Windows Vista 64 bit, I needed this. Vista has the Intel driver(s). The EG1032-V3 works extremely well with Windows XP. I’ll replace the Linksys LNE100 in my child’s Window XP platform with the EG1032-V3 1000 MHz. Now, I should get to the bottom line and drive to the point I wish to make: ENJOY THE NEW EXPERIENCE! Dual-boot and DON’T GIVE UP THAT WINDOWS XP, just yet! In about a year (plus/minus a few months), this new OS, the hardware drivers, and the 3rd party venders will harmonize, nicely! (stlaw01)
about Vista...
by jrolanieto - 3/14/07 9:37 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamIn a few words I consider Microsoft is not guilty about the incom-
patibility of Vista with drivers that come from third party. In this
case I blame to vendors for not being up to date with the new OS Vista.
ok?
j.r. nieto
Vendor Slacking.
by mikelatsko - 3/14/07 9:45 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamLook... This is how it is. Microsoft put the Vista OS out over a year ago in beta. There is no reason why the 3rd party vendors did not have drivers and software ready.
The 3rd party vendors may claim that they did not want develop software/drivers until the final version because they were worried that they may have to reengineer what they write while the product is in beta.
This is a misconception. The best time to develop drivers is while the OS is in beta. Hence the reason for the beta version. Driver and OS issues can be resolved before the final release of the OS.
No Printer Drivers... Shame on you HP, Xerox, and the other printer manufacturers.
No Audio Cards/Legacy Drivers... Shame on you Creative. (You had plenty of time to be CREATIVE)
Apple (iPod & iTunes) Shame on you Apple, you are on the top of my list. There is no reason why you software doesn't work with Vista. Crashing iPods. iTunes crashing. You had plenty of time! And for for the love of music, MAKE IT WORK WITH 64 bit machines! Is this really too much trouble? I have spent over $1000 on the iPod and it accessories to make it work everywhere else. It's apples job to make it work on my PC. Get it done! (perhaps you can sense my feeling on this one, or shall I find a place for another exclamation point?)
The only company that I know of that had their stuff together was Nvidia. They may have had issues on release but at least they had something there to work with. I am not sure about ATI as I do not use ATI.
You have to ask yourself... If you were a 3rd party vendor and you wanted to sell a lot of product , lets take printers for instance, would you not do some advanced preparation to be ahead of your competition?
For instance I bought my new computer 3 weeks ago. I found out that my old printer, an HP Photosmart 7550 had no drivers for Vista. It was at the end of it's life anyways. It was a good printer, but I was ready for something new. So I headed off shopping. I looked at everything, HP, Xerox, Brother, Epson, etc. Any one of these could have won my business that day. Unfortunatley, not a single one of them was equipped with Vista Drivers. Heck I would have even bought a printer from the company named 'ABC123 Try Me' if it had Vista drivers. It was the perfect time for new start up companies to make a name for themselves. ...Nothing... ...Nada... Noone interested.
The only thing Microsoft is guilty of is 'slowness to inovate.' It takes them for ever to come up with new ideas. But that is another topic entirely.
Why should we not hold these 3rd party companies accountable for not being prepared?
Thanks for the rant space.
Vendor's NOT slacking
by nothingavailable - 3/14/07 10:01 PM In reply to: Vendor Slacking. by mikelatskoIf you recall the beta of Vista was such a bunch of un-mitigated garbage it was utterly impossible to develop anything on a constantly changing base code that was so full of major kernel bugs that it made a pig farm look sweet.
Give me a break, the vendors got the running OS the same time you did despite what the redmond retards say in their press releases.
The fault lies with the company with the strangle hold on the PC market. They force everyone to buy a new computer, software and peripherals.
Nice little racket.
Can't we all get along?
by clovelle - 3/14/07 9:45 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamPrior to jumping into a new o/s, one should make sure that the software they have currently is compatible and if not check with the manufacturer to see if there is an upgrade. If you are purchasing new software, it is your respinsibility to READ the box and see if it has any compatibility issues with your o/s. It is frustrating to find that you can't play that new game or use your old programs with your new system but ultimately, we are in the drivers seat and we must make informed decisions. Don't be so quick to keep up with the Jone's and all will be well.
Microsoft Issued Incompatible Software
by Lifesaver1 - 3/14/07 9:47 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamOn the positive side, Vista offers a few incremental advances that are nice to haves, though none seem to be need to haves. On the negative side it is a memory hog that comes with massive numbers of incompatibilities that render software and hardware unusable. Highly frustrating. For these reasons XP Pro, on balance, is a much better program.
To hog or not to hog resources
by keitan - 3/14/07 9:47 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamThough I generally agree that third party hardware and software companies should share the blame for the incompatibilities, Microsoft should have assessed the playing field before going full scale with machines sold on the retail shelves. I know two new owners of Toshiba laptops who can't wait to get copies of XP to put on instead of struggling through Vista One is an iTunes user, and the other said her printer isn't compatible (and very upset about it). And what is up with Vista's requirement to require "at least" a Gig of RAM to run Home Premium??? That's just a sign of poor fundamental design. I mean, I run a department with about an equal amount of Macs and PCs. OS X Tiger can install on machines older than three years, with only 128 MB RAM, and they do quite well with that OS. Does Microsoft really think that we all have the money to go out and buy all new equipment because they wanted to make a hog of an OS that really needs 2 Gigs of RAM to run well???
DUH! I can't believe that you even have to ask this question
by cbcooper79 - 3/14/07 9:49 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamOf course Microsoft is responsible for these driver and OTHER incompatibilities.
If Microsoft DIDN'T change things SOOOOOOOOOOO much, then "things" would not get "broken" ie incompatible!
The problem is the as MS is so big, THEY set the standard and expect everybody to ADHERE to this standard. This is ok if the standard REMAINS a standard, BUT we all know MS keeps changing the "standard"!!!!!
MS is the cause of much consternation amongst many hardware AND software vendors. How many millions (billions) of dollars are literally WASTED on such "standards" maintenance??
Why do we have to have NEW drivers for screens and audio for example, when the screen and audio ALREADY can show ALL the required colours and play ALL the required audio channels? This is a joke!!
WHY can't VISTA use the existing hardware the way it IS???????
Many vendors will kowtow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowtow) to the Microsoft machine and produce new drivers than in most cases will be FREELY available to the users of the respective hardware vendor. This may be an enormous expense that has to be recovered somehow - eg HIGHER hardware prices!! Development or EVEN compatibility testing takes time AND costs money somewhere for the respecive software/hardware vendor.
Then of course the vendor has to submit there driver/software (hardware) for Microsoft Cerification at their OWN expense. This is done for approval and certification - or they have to face the indigity of having the vendors NEW installation program for the NEW software invoke the admonition of the WARNING dialog stating the vendor HAS NOT been certified - OOOOOOH that's a worry for the user!!!!
It's ALL a means of gathering direct and indirect revenue for Microsoft.
I do have to hand it to M$ though, through their "marketing machine" and buy-out or outrigfht SLAUGHTER of the competition, M$ have built a billion dollar industry of what is essentially a GLORIFIED disk operation system ***DOS***.
I could go on but that's enough for now.
Kind regards
Peter
Enough blame to go around
by donalpixny - 3/14/07 9:56 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamThe release of Vista is hardly a surprise; it's been promised for years. So, developers should have been prepared. Perhaps some thought it was another MS false alarm and did not want to waste effort on an OS that would never happen. There does seem to have been a rush by MS at the end to get the thing to market, which may have not given developers enough time, but if MS had to wait for every developer to get its act together, Vista would never come out.
Apple, which does major OS upgrades much more often, seems to have figured out a way to give its 3rd-party developers the information they need before a release, so users experience only minor bumps on the road. The initial release of OSX years ago was not smooth, but was corrected in the second release; perhaps MS could learn from the Apple experience.
For users, all this translates to varying degrees of overall usefulness/frustration to Vista, depending on what 3d party stuff they rely on. Next time, look before you leap. Or, leap to Mac?
It's a mess - deal with it.
by Frodo420024 - 3/15/07 12:45 AM In reply to: Enough blame to go around by donalpixny"The release of Vista is hardly a surprise; it's been promised for years. So, developers should have been prepared."
The reason developers were ready for WinXP was clear: Win2000. It was a compelling environment for SW development, and it was easy to test well in advance if anything was broken, and fix it.
This time around we didn't have any similar second (and stable) version of Windows around, and we certainly didn't have it well in advance. I am working for a computer magazine, and I tell you MS was restrictive about getting too many betas and prereleases out! Developers don't like being subject to control freaks, and many simply ignored the red tape and the time it'd take to test things under Vista.
It's a major change, deal with it. Submit bug reports for your favorite apps, check for upgrades, find alternatives, get things fixed. Major OS upgrades are only fun if you leave something bad for something obviously better, and this is not the case here.
Bite the bullet. Or bite a different one and go Linux.
Who is to blame for Vista incompatibilities?
by MightyT - 3/14/07 9:57 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamOK, this is not shocking revelation. Vista has been on its way for over 2 years now. Third party vendors beware, you need to step up and put people on upgrades. I am tired of having to wait months and months to get adequate support for a new OS. Even software I bought in December was not compatible! The great HP should have software for my new AIW. I was amazed at the lack of attention DST got and how some updates were last minute and some are still pending. You can't blame Microsoft for that. Get a grip guys. I call MS to the carpet many times, but you can't always pass the buck. Then again, I have little expectations that this will change since so many times you set the bar so low on expedient upgrades. Another thing to consider, you not only impact consumers, but you make it a hundred times worse for corporate customers. It takes long enough to make upgrades happen in a large enterprise, delaying compatible software and drivers exasperates the situation further.
Vista upgrade
by alysterupton - 3/14/07 10:01 PM In reply to: Windows Vista Bugs by photohamI guess it's all a matter of attitude. I have just upgraded my XP driven Acer Aspire 3610 to Vista Home Premium. It has taken me a week to update drivers and iron out a few program incompatibilities but that has been a relatively simple process. I am very happy with the result and I enjoy using the finished product.
The secret is to do your homework BEFORE buying the new O/S and read all the material which is available on the 'net concerning upgrading. That way you will avoid frustration at the work which tthe migration will make for you. Upon installation, the procedure produces a (in my case) pretty accurate list of incompatibilities so you know what to expect.
Finally, Vista is a NEW operating system, a fact which Microsoft promote pretty strongly. I see no reason why they should be responsible for t/p poduct compatibility.
Good luck, folks: Alyster Upton, Durban
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