Windows Vista: Windows Vista Bugs
Excuse me?
by MsGeek703 - 3/14/07 5:40 PM In reply to: Totally agree, John by photoham by pauageckoA MacIntel isn't a REAL Mac? That's like saying that the Motorola 68K Macs were the only real Macs, and that PowerPC isn't a "real Mac."
Sorry, my absolute BEST Mac is a MacIntel...a MacBook that smokes the G5 you rhapsodize over. I have done the comparison myself. My MacBook with 2GB of RAM kicks all matter of ass over a G5 minitower with the same amount of RAM doing a video encode.
And once Leopard and its native code and 64-bit capability comes on the scene...things will only get speedier.
More issues!
by RodsterinFL - 3/14/07 8:57 PM In reply to: Totally agree, John by photoham by pauageckoRecently I was speaking with a friend about Vista who actually convinced me to go Windows in 1999. I came from a Mac background and was, at the time, not sure about Apple's future. I went through the "XP conversion" and it was expensive for me - new software and hardware. I nearly bought all new peripherals just to do what I did before. Vista, it seems will be similar. I work in tech and we have a copy of Vista to test with our software and hardware and some issues are a given. We are just begining with that new added task to the duty roster.
What concerns me though is that all of this mess just adds to the Windows issues. My "friend" that I mentioned made a point that is logical but it led me to agree with the previous post writer's conclusion - consider an Apple.
In December I built a great Windows platform machine - Intel Core 2, 2GB RAM, SATA, 8800GTS, etc to the tune of $1100 after rebates and rehash of some used components. In November I got a Macbook. Recently I started working on the Apple platform AGAIN and I just want to share one experience. I had to upgrade the firmware on the motherboard I purchased. I had to download the program, download another program and install it to expand the file, go get a floppy to install the expanded file, format it, install the file, run the program, set my machine to boot from floppy in bios (it actually was not set that way) and remove the floppy for a reboot to update the bios on my new machine. All of this was done AFTER I discovered the "important needed update" from the manufacturer on their website while checking on my rebate - no prompting. Now, one evening about the same time I did all of that (in Jan) I booted the laptop and got a prompting from software update that there was an important update for my machine to be downloaded. It too was a firmware update. The file downloaded with a message that popped open telling me to double-click on the program and then after the machine shut down, press and hold the power button until the power button flashed quickly then release. The firmware updated and the machine rebooted itself.
My point? Although the argument is age-old, my one experience I shared made me realize why I was an Apple user in the first place. I started on Kaypro (CPM) and discovered Apple. It was simplicity that drew me and efficiency. Why work on the computer when you should be working on the task at hand. SO many times I have had some stupid update from Microsoft suddenly cause a conflict on my computer or a virus lead my computer into a restart frenzy (I run two antivirus programs) - true there are other 3rd parties involved but do I want to spend an entire evening going to 6-7 websites looking for and hopefully downloading updates, rebuilding my computer after the virus or, doing what I planned to do on the computer to begin with? One realization that I see with Vista is so much what the Mac already is only without the issues. Many people who buy Windows machines equate their computer issues as common to the use of computers, not realizing that the platform itself is much of the headache. I've used Windows for 8 years and am a certified technician of the platform and I will continue to use Windows because of my work but I have concluded that my experience with both platforms logically leads to wanting a simpler way to do my work and Windows complicates things. Vista is and will be an improvement overall to the platform but it will also add to the ongoing issues.
No reason to switch to MACS just because of Microsoft
by pchew1954 - 3/17/07 8:07 PM In reply to: Totally agree, John by photoham by pauageckoGuys - Please dont sell MACS just because of Microsoft's poor attitude, I love MACS too, and work with them at a design outfit, as well as with PCs at a financial corporation, and at home. They all have merits and are bought for their relevant functional benefit. So please dont give a poor excuse to switch to Macs, as Macs are not the best for "everything"...
And the harping about HP - If you really want to swop stories about how poor one brand is over another, we all have many personal stories to tell, I am trying hard to get you guys to wake up to the fact that "ANY" manufacturer has to be mad to own that responsibility that they may bot legally be permitted to intoduce any product into a marketplace, when it is already being proved by these forums, that the product VISTA has caused, introduce operational problems, - the very fact that the owner of the system is forced to go look elsewhere for drivers, is not an acceptable practice. Will you guys record the conversations you have when advice is being given at such centre at Microsoft, and replay it so that Bill Gates can hear for himsoelf how stupid, and irresponsible his troops are?!
Furthermore, I would like to point out that I have NEVER experienced any problems with using any software item from HP - when using their printers, or multifunction devices... as its really during the same periods of the introduction of a "new" O.S. by Microsoft... at every stage of a new OS introduction, the whole world gets a backlash of "new" drivers are needed... When I first used XP, I did wait till SP2 was available, and every hardware I added, only some required unique drivers, others were included with their XP range of drivers, etc... with little hassle to get hold of... but
we the muggins are still doing all the legwork
W H Y are we forever doing this unnecessary work - looking for yetr another "new" driver for the latest Microsoft O.S.
W H Y cant it be like the SP2 for the XP O.S. whereby at that "later" stage... all universal drivers werer already packaged neaty -
If I ever step up from my trusty Renault Laguna (that's my car, for you guys over stateside) to another Renault model - I do not expect Renault to tell me that I may have to go to another organisation to have to find an electronic switch or key to allow me to get into the boot, or open the bonnet, or anything!
- I simply expect my "new" car to "WORK"
i.e. switch on the ignition (power switch is the equivalent on my computer) and drive away using my fuel from any local petrol station (possibly BP or ESSO fuel - petrol or diesel, or LRP gas, etc..)
I dont expect them to sell me a new car, and subsequently give me any excuse that I have to go somewhere else to find "any" adaptor to drive my car... just like I expect my new "operating system" to work on my present computer hardware, AND EVERYTHING that's currently connected to my working XP O.S.
- is that so unreasonable? I dont think so
JUST WHY do you guys allow Microsoft to get away with this expectation of downloading yet another driver - I am refering to CURRENTLY available hardware , not tomorrow's new HP scanner, or Lexmark printer, or Scandisk whatever...
WE are the paying public, and if Microsoft continues to ignore our frustrations you guys should all practice what you preach... i.e. stop moaning about it ... take the product back to the store, and demand your money back, if that fails due to an ignorant store manager, then go to court, sue the store for selling a product which doesnt "work"
- in UK go to the citizens advice bureau and take out a claims against the supplier (YEP the local computer store is going to have to suffer first - then they can do the next stage and stop stocking an UNRELIABLE new O.S.)
Microsoft has been getting away with it for so many years - its simply gotta stop !
Are there any legal bods out there reading these threads... kindly suggest a mass movement appeal process... cause its just like Apple's Ipod batteries (remember them leaky/overheated useless batts)in the early Ipods,... this Microsoft malarky has just got to stop !
No choice Vista
by slg18 - 3/14/07 7:16 PM In reply to: PC Upgrade by mindyw01My laptop from work died and rather than put any more money into it we bought a Dell Inspiron 6400 pre-loaded with Vista. Well the Palm-Pilot won't synch, the Motorola phone won't charge off the USB, let alone synch.The USB external drive works intermittently.
For those of you who say it's the device guys who didn't do their job, what about Windows Mail? Isn't that a MS product? It locks up and you have to go in as an admin and run a program in Command mode (ie DOS) to fix it. When the locking Outbox error occurred, Microsoft directed me to it's "community" ie not Microsoft Support but other unpaid poor souls in the same boat. That's offloading responsibility.
I just tried the spell checker in Windows Mail and it doesn't work now either. I fixed it see...
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.mail&cat=en_US_9CA88DDB-D18D-FA0E-A366-6E527B0FBA67&lang=en&cr=US&query="This%20language%20is%20no%20longer%20available%20for%20spel l%20checking."
We have a web application that has to be accessed as part of our job and guess what, it runs under Firefox on Vista but locks up with IE.
People have encouraged me to format the disk and install XP....
Vista upgrade
by stew916 - 3/14/07 7:39 PM In reply to: PC Upgrade by mindyw01Well, after reading all the messages on vista upgrade I am very relunctent to do this, I have a new comp. which is a custom one, running a sempron 3800+ 1GB ram ATI grafic card 550 series, XP pro SP2 with IE7, checked with vista readiness program said no problem, but am sure there will be one LOL. I wanted to upgrade because I had a redemption form for vista buisness free and will be comeing soon, guess Ill put it on E-Bay. As far as HP goes with my system there software hates me, have had nothing but trouble with there program and XP. I believe next time Iam going to buy a comp. I think ill try a Mac or something else. Thanks for all the info Neil
RE: PC Upgrade
by H41N - 3/19/07 4:27 PM In reply to: PC Upgrade by mindyw01It's not the fact that a Gig of memory or a 300W psu isn't enough for Vista, it's the fact that you're trying to make them work encased inside a Pavilion. I have no intention of turning this into an anti-HP thread, but I know from experience that they use the absolute *lowest* of the low when it comes to hardware. Crap hardware, no matter what the specs boast, isn't going to run anything halfway decent or which requires any amount of power.
I started with HP support in 2001. It was when I moved from the tech department to a position as a case manager handling corporate escalations that I really got a look at what they were really about. Selling used components (anything assembled in Mexico distinguished by a serial number beginning with `MX') and using bottomfeeding retailers like Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and Best Buy to push their product were but a scratch on the surface.
I built my own machine back in 2002. Five years later, my 512MB of memory and 300W psu have never experienced a problem while running Vista. It may be because I opted for Crucial brand memory and a brand-name power supply, along with reputable components elsewhere inside. While HP was using defective Fujitsu hard disks 200,000+ of which they were ruled liable to replace, brands like WD and Maxtor forge ahead. Look at some of the Pavilion motherboards of the day; you can visibly *see* the solder points where components were pried off the mobo and covered up. And you're trusting that level of quality to run the latest OS on the market?
how quickly we forgot ...
by activebiz - 3/14/07 5:45 PM In reply to: Totally agree, John by photohamthe windows 98 disaster, it took a year back then to iron out all the bugs, incompatibilities - and that was actually the time one should have abandoned Microsoft all-together and start using mac's.
Microsoft will ALWAYS consider fast profit over customer service. That's all there is to it.
We all know it and yet still we are weak enough to fall for them every time.
We are the ones, that BUY their stuff so quickly.
Hello and welcome to Linux etc. Microsoft is like a Rolls Royce: Armani suit ticking for the heart attack.
Totally Disagree
by knhinf - 2/16/07 12:16 PM In reply to: Totally agree, John by mopscare42It took Microsoft 5 years to bring Vista to messes and it is Microsoft responsibility to make sure Vista work with most of my hardware and software.
I have Vista for almost 6 month (since beta) and i can tell you it's not worth your hard-earned money.
STICK WITH XP OR MOVE OVER TO MAC.
A True Vista Compatibility Story
by pmchefalo - 2/17/07 6:34 AM In reply to: Totally Disagree by knhinfI was planning to test Vista RC1, after testing Beta 2, on an old Gigabyte motherboard with dual PIII processors and 2G RAM. No video card I had was Aero compatible, so I bought an 8x AGP ATI card with 256M of memory, and added it before the installation. As it turns out the motherboard drivers with the RC did not support AGP any faster than 1x, so the card really did not help Vista performance much, if at all. Bummer.
I had to shut down the test machine to make room for another PC. Then the fan on my main XP machine started making a lot of noise, so I had to open it up. I decided to switch video cards with the Vista box. I was in a hurry, and while I got the XP machine prepared, I didn't worry about the Vista machine.
A week later I thought about the Vista PC. I added a nVidia 64M card in the AGP slot, and turned on the power. I fully expected a blue screen and a potential total rebuild. (See, I DO have experience with Linux.) Much to my ammusement, the Vista graphical interface launched, asked me to wait, and about five minutes later asked me to login. I did so, and the card was fully recognized and functional. It had never seen that card before, I had done a total format and install with the RC. ATI to nVidia in five minutes, no muss, no fuss.
I don't think XP or any other operating system, PC or otherwise, COULD have done it. This considering that no prep was performed and the range of video cards for a non-Mac is huge.
And this machine is testing Kubuntu 6.10 right now. Installation was quick, but no audio of course and after about 200M of security downloads, the video decided I had a wide-screen LCD monitor. It only took about 1-1/2 hours and several reboots after the video settings applet crashed repeatedly to find a way to get it to recognize the CRT monitor. Not ready for prime time.
I disagree
by dmiller68 - 3/14/07 4:41 PM In reply to: Totally Disagree by knhinfThese vendors had plenty of time to get drivers and software updates completed to support Vista. It blows me away how my Dell laptop worked perfect after a clean install. Including the wacky sound card, etc. However, my HP printer requires a hack around which didn't work so now I can't print at home. Yet the Konkia printer in the office works perfect.
Microsoft wanted universal support for both 32bit and 64bit. All vendors were required to provide both to be certified by MS. Losers like HP did nothing, everyone knew this OS was coming for years. Yet that don't have drivers months after it is released. Companies like HP should be embarrassed with their pathetic support of their customers.
Remember people MS doesn’t write most of these drivers!!
I disagree more
by nothingavailable - 3/14/07 5:18 PM In reply to: I disagree by dmiller68Having worked for companies that write drivers.
Attempting to get Microsoft certification for anything is a tedious lengthy process that takes months to years to finish.
Microsoft's certification test suite is so full of bugs, errors, omissions, and complete garbage that it makes their OS look great.
With the changes made under the hood in Windows, written by Indian programmers hired by Microsoft, I can only imagine what a complete nightmare it would be to try to cert now. Server 2003 was the last OS I worked with and it was a nightmare trying to get drivers certified.
The blame rests squarely with Microsoft. They don't understand their own operating system well enough to offer vendor support for writing drivers. Or if you find a bug in their "precious" OS, they deny everything for 6 months to a year before they can fix them.
It's time to start looking at Linux again....
cs
Blame the Companies, Our Legislators and the schools that ta
by bc66 - 3/14/07 6:32 PM In reply to: I disagree more by nothingavailableDon't just blame Microsoft alone. Blame the vendors, your legislators for tugging on their strings for campaign contributions, and being wined and dined by their lofty and ****** and snobby lobbyist.
As to the countries that the programmers come from, blame the companies and your legislalors for that too. They make the dam laws and rules according to how much they get from these snobs.
As to the colleges who teach these people programming. 1. Tell the professors that they DO NOT BRING AN ENGLISH COMPOSITION 11 TEACHER INTO A PROGRAMMING CLASS EITHER TO HELP TEACH IT OR RUN THE LAB. THE ENGLISH TEACHER ONLY KNOWS HOW TO TEACH A STUDENT ONE THING. THAT IS HOW TO WRITE IN A WORD PROCESSOR APPLICATION A SYNOPSIS ABOUT THE RETURN OF THE NATIVE. THEY DID NOT GET A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE. THEY GOT A DEGREE IN EDUCATION. A TRUE COMPUTER PROGRAMMING TEACHER WOULD KNOW A LOT ABOUT MATH AND SPECIFICALLY COMPUTER SCIENCE. A PROGRAMMING INSTRUCTOR SHOULD HAVE A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE WITH A CONSENTRATION ON COMPUTER PROGRAMMING AND THE PROGRAMMING SHOULD BE IN ALL LANGUAGES AND IF THE PROGRAMMERS WORK IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY MUST DO THYE JOB IN ENGLISH. NOT THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE. THE F WITH THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS JUST A BIG LAME EXCUSE.
ELECTED OFFICIALS, DO YOUR JOB. MAKE THESE COMPANIES HAVE COMPATABLE PROGRAMS AVAILABLE FOR THE NEW OPERATING SYSTEMS AND MAKE MICROSOFT FIX THEIR BUGS IN THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS. ANYONE WORKING THERE ILLEGALLY, ROUND THEM UP, PUT THEM IN CUFFS AND SEND THEM OFF TO JAIL OR BACK TO THEIR NATIVE LAND AND TELEVISE IT ON LIVE TV.
PRESIDENTS OF THE COLLEGES AND DEANS. DO YOUR JOB. BEFORE THE STUDENTS GRADUATE FROM ANY DEGREE PROGRAM IN YOUR UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE, MAKE SURE THE STUDENTS LEAVE THERE WELL QUALIFIED TO DO THE JOB THAT THEY STUDIED FOR TO DO. THEIR GRADUATION PARTY FINAL EXAM SHOULD BE TO WRITE A PROGRAM AND FIX ANY BUGS THEY MADE IN IT, EVEN IF THEY DO NOT GET THEIR DEGREE FOR ANOTHER YEAR. NO PROGRAM. NO DEGREE. ALSO, MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THE PROFESSORS OR INSTRUCTORS ARE HIRED TO TEACH COMPUTER PROGRAMMING, TO TEST WHETHER THEY ARE FIT TO TEACH A COMPUTER CLASS, HAVE THEM DO A MAJOR COMPUTER CONVERSION FREE OF CHARGE AND THAT THEY MUST HAVE IT DONE BEFORE THE NEW FALL SEMESTER. IF THEY DO NOT. THEY DO NOT GET THE JOB AND THAN MAYBE, THEY FUDGED THEIR RESUMES AND SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR PERJURY IF THEY ARE LYING ABOUT THEIR QUALIFICATIONS. THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR THE LAB ASSISTANTS IN A COMPUTER PROGRAMMING CLASS. ONE LAST WORD. IF THE PEOPLE ARE NOT FIT TO TEACH THE MAJOR, DON'T OFFER THE DEGREE PROGRAM IN IT. IF YOU DO, BE WILLING TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES AND THAT MEANS LOOSING FUNDING FROM OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS FOR PUTTING ON A STELLER PERFORMANCE...FALSE ADVERTISEMENT AND LYING TO THE RECRUITS.
NO SWEET HEART DEALS. THE LAW IS THE LAW. QUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE QUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE QUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE QUALIFIED PROGRAMMER. AND UNQUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE UNQUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS ARE UNQUALIFIED PROGRAMMERS.
Vista bugs not Microsoft's fault
by Bradtex - 3/14/07 6:08 PM In reply to: I disagree by dmiller68I also agree that Microsoft is not to blame. The third party vendors have had ample time to upgrade their software, and some have. Why they are so slow to comply with the new requirements for Vista is beyond me....it only costs them sales. I'm not going to upgrade to Vista until the software is available and meanwhile I'm not going to upgrade or renew XP software update subscriptions. Let's see, what do you suppose these lazy vendors will do for sales in the meantime?
Not entirely true
by alexsheff92 - 3/14/07 6:23 PM In reply to: Totally Disagree by knhinfMicrosoft makes its beta's and RC's available - so 3rd party companies can update their code to be within spec. Everyone ******* about Microsoft BUT they offer the single largest consortium of driver/hardward compatability on the market. That comes with a cost.
Either you understand having a long window (whether to resolve their issues OR give control companies time to refine/rewrite their code.) or not; the simple fact is Windows is huge and more like a quilt than an app, and you are not obligated to upgrade.
Apple seems nice becuase it has little issue with hardware, since it controls most of it - same with software. Hence why it makes little waves during upgrades. BUT I do remeber the cluster f**k OS X was to move too from previous versions.
Each OS has issues... Vista seems worse becuase of the shear numbers of install base.
Not Microsofts Fault
by hotlift - 3/14/07 8:31 PM In reply to: Not entirely true by alexsheff92I have Vista ultimate and business on 7 PC's and not one problem. Most are Dual Boot. One is on a Gateway Pentium 4 1.6GHz 1gb memory with a $29 5200 Nvidia graphics card with 128gb of memory. I stuck in a 120Western dig hard drive and loaded Vista Business on it. Rated 2.5 but is much faster and smoother than XPSP2. I have never had any luck at all upgrading. Not even from MCE04 to MCE05, home to Pro did not even work. I ended up with clean installs. If you guys are winning because you upgraded and nothing works right, You all should know better from previous builds. Somebody said that They wanted to use a PCI Express slot for a high end graphics card and blamed Vista for having to use a more powerfull power supply ??? I am sure your motherboard has a PCI slot that could handle a $29 Nvidia graphics card. My power supply in my Pentium 4 is like 250 watts. I do run a High End Graphics card in a PCI express slot but I also have a 600 watt power supply to run the High end card. I beta tested vista for over a year and know that most 3rd party venders are still behind the eight ball as far as producing good drivers for there product to run with Vista. Not microsofts fault at all.
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