Community Newsletter: Q&A: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me?
- 2/9/07 5:00 PM
Linux for Apache and Web site service
by kirchmeyer - 2/9/07 7:36 AM In reply to: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Would your answer change if the purpose of the system was solely to use a Windows XP PC as a web server with Apache? Then, what flavor of Linux would you recommend? And, would you recommend a dual-boot with the Windows XP and the Lunix, or go strictly with the Linux and get rid of the Windows? Thanks. Dick K.
what to host Apache on.
by clsgis - 2/9/07 2:57 PM In reply to: Linux for Apache and Web site service by kirchmeyer"if the purpose of the system was solely to use a Windows XP PC as a web server with Apache?"
You really don't want to try to run a Web server on MS-Windows. You *will* have security problems. The Internet has become a hostile environment.
I'd do a Debian base install. It's really small. Then I'd go "apt-get install apache2" Are you sure you only wanted Apache? Maybe you wanted PHP? "apt-get install php5 php5-cli"
But if I'd been working with it as long as I've been around Debian, I might put Apache2 on FreeBSD. They're both good.
The answer to the first question is "Yes" -- but . . .
by CaptainX - 2/9/07 7:58 AM In reply to: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
. . .there is a SECOND question:
"When?"
That one is harder to answer, but easier to determine.
Most users have basic needs -- email, browser, word processing, spreadsheet -- and a wider list of wants. It's the wants that are the real issue. It doesn't matter how stable, safe and power your operating system is, if the applications that you need aren't available.
I suggest that, before you move to Linux, you start going to open-source applications which have both Windows and Linux versions.
If you switch to Thunderbird (email), Firefox (browser) and OpenOffice (office suite) while still on Windows, you can see if you like them.
Once you're up to speed on the applications that you use the most, then you can set up a "dual-boot" system on your computer, which allows you to launch Windows or Linux. Start booting Linux (I suggest the KDE desktop interface, which looks and acts much the same way that Windows does), and only boot Windows when you need to use an application for which you haven't found a Linux replacement.
The advantage of using Thunderbird, Firefox and OpenOffice is that whichever system you've booted, you can use the same application and same data sets.
Eventually, you will find yourself no longer booting Windows at all. At that point, you have migrated.
Great answer - don't forget to update multiple OSs!
by brit0n - 2/9/07 8:13 AM In reply to: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Patti,
In my opinion, Cameron's answer seems to be clear and well set out. Don't worry about the ensuing discussion of "which Linux" - as you use it, you will get some ideas of your own without too much technical head-shrinking.
When you migrate to Linux being on your hard drive instead of CD/USB drive, you will probably want to continue to have Windows still available (XP will be fine for some years so no need to upgrade to Vista). This means that want to be able to boot your computer with either Linux or Windows and that means you will use a multiple boot system where you get to choose which OS you want this time. There are many ways to do this and you can ask about it at the time if you are not sure.
One very important thing to remember throughout the migration and after you move to multiple boot is that updates for each operating system will be needed regularly even if you don't use one particular OS for a while. So for instance, if you need to run Windows once every few months, you probably ought to boot up Windows at least every month if not more often and check for updates. And remember, in addition to the Windows updates which are important for security, you will CERTAINLY have to ensure that as soon as you boot, you force your anti-virus program(s) to get the latest updates (definition files and engine updates). There will probably be software updates for other Windows software you use and you can't rely on "automatic updates" for any of that if you are not leaving the computer running on that OS for long at a time so you may have to do manual checks for updates.
Good luck with the trial and migration. Despite all the advice you are getting, remember that it is your computer and if you don't find it easy to use some software, that software is simply not for you. It doesn't have to be difficult!
Okay, but how do you set up dual boot?
by jeffrob - 2/9/07 8:44 AM In reply to: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Sounds like a lot of you have some great experience in setting up Linux systems and several of you mentioned using a dual boot mehtod. How do you go about setting that up?
Are there any GOOD instructions out on the net? I've checked out some of them and found most to be way too confusing to try.
Thanks,
Jeff
dual boot setup, install Linux first
by clsgis - 2/9/07 3:09 PM In reply to: Okay, but how do you set up dual boot? by jeffrob"dual boot mehtod. How do you go about setting that up?"
Boot computer from Linux install disk. Partition hard drive: MS-Windows, swap, Linux, Linux. (I use at least three partitions for Linux: system, swap, user accounts. That way you can replace the system easily without disturbing the users.) Install Linux. Be sure you can boot your new system from a rescue disk. MS-Windows doesn't play nice with others. Reboot.
Boot MS-Windows install disk. Install. Apply security updates. Reboot.
Boot computer from Linux rescue disk. Install GNU Grand Unified Boot Loader ("GRUB") with whatever tools your distro provides for that. Specify dual boot. You're done.
"Are there any GOOD instructions out on the net?"
No. But you can survive with http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Multiboot-with-GRUB.html and http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+Win9x+Grub-HOWTO/index.html
Question about linux commands
by butter - 2/9/07 3:46 PM In reply to: dual boot setup, install Linux first by clsgisI just want to say that I am so glad Patti asked this question and It is posted in this Newsletter.
A friend and co-worker of mine helped me re-install Window98 back on my computer yesterday and he wanted me to try Fedora Linux because he don't Love Windows. He partition my hard-drive and he installed windows98 on the first partition and then he installed Fedora on the other. I can now boot up Fedora or Windows98.
My question is do you have to know how to use linux's command in order to kept the Fedora or any of the other linux's Operating System operating smoothly. I saw him set up the terminal on my task bar and when I click on it, it opens a window with something that looks like a DOS prompt. I do not know what commands to use there and I was wondering if I would have to learn linux commands in order to use it correctly. I am a newbee to Fedora or any of the linux OS's but I have read the posting here about it and I wasn't sure that this is something I have to do. I mean learn a new programming language.
Thanks for your Help
Butter
really good "command line" question
by clsgis - 2/10/07 12:26 PM In reply to: Question about linux commands by butterButter asked a deep and insightful question. I'll rephrase.
"Do I need to learn to use programs that don't have a Graphical User Interface (GUI) to succeed using free and open source software."
Strictly speaking, no. Most of the work that goes into commercial distros like Linspire and SUSE is about putting GUIs on the essentials. You can install and maintain Knoppix through its GUI.
Command prompts give newcomers a terrible stage fright. There's a blinking cursor and no menu. It's scary. But you will have *more fun* and get *more free help* from *more people* if you just get over it. You'll be able to do a lot more stuff, more easily.
It begins with getting more help. In order to help you track down some problem, the volunteers need exact information about it. It's really hard to describe the sequence of dialog boxes and menu selections you went through, or to describe your system accurately enough, using nothing but GUI. It's really hard for a volunteer to lead you through some repair or upgrade procedure using nothing but GUI.
In a help forum, I might ask you to "get a shell and show me the output of uname -a." Or "df"
At that point, you have choices. You can give up. You can get resentful and angry. You can hire a consultant. Or you can just open Konsole or xterm or something, and type "uname -a" and hit Enter. The program will say something and you can select and paste it into the chat program or posting form or email message. That's a whole lot *easier* than playing twenty questions about it or trying to post a bunch of screen shots.
cls@chico:~$ uname -a
Linux chico 2.6.18-3-k7 #1 SMP Mon Dec 4 17:23:11 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
cls@chico:~$ df
Filesystem _________ 1K-blocks ____ Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda1 _____________ 474440 __ 248721 __ 201222 _ 56% /
tmpfs _________________ 322544 _______ 0 __ 322544 _ 0% /dev/shm
/dev/hda3 _____________ 964468 ____ 1552 __ 913924 __ 1% /tmp
/dev/hda5 ____________17298928 _ 5382096 _ 11038084 _ 33% /usr
/dev/hda6 ____________ 6728256 _ 3805708 _ 2580768 _ 60% /var
/dev/hda7 __________ 127688520 _ 69546968 _ 51655328 _ 58% /home
/dev/hdb1 ___________ 26912760 _ 9330208 _ 16215424 _ 37% /b1
Now I know *exactly* what kernel you're running and how full your file systems are. How hard was that?
One more question about linux commands
by butter - 2/10/07 4:08 PM In reply to: really good "command line" question by clsgisClsgis
Thank You for replying to my question and you make real good since about being able to get information about what you are doing on computer.
I need to know if all the commands in the different flavors of Linux are universal and is there a book that is simple or easy to read that a newbee would or could understand. If so could you give me the name.
I am using Fedora, which my friend install on my computer for me to use, to see if I would like it better than windows. He wanted me to see that Fedora could do the same things that Windows does, but you have recommended Knoppix. Can I run it alone with Fedora by using the boot CD too or do I have to install it on my hard-drive too.
Thank You again for your help.
Butter
unix heritage commands? reference?
by clsgis - 2/11/07 12:38 PM In reply to: One more question about linux commands by butter"[Are] all the commands in the different flavors of Linux universal and is there a book ..."
There is a "core set" of commands (programs you run from a command line) which are *traditionally* part of any unix installation. (Well, Tivo is a unix install but I'm not talking about embedded systems...) Some are for installation, maintenance, and rescue. Others are for manipulating text and files. We write their names with the chapter in the online manual that talks about them. For example, I still use vi(1) and mailx(1) and metamail(1) to deal with most of my email. Don't try to learn them all. Learn about one at a time, as you run into the need for it.
The first commands you should learn might be less(1) and man(1), the online manual itself. Get a shell and type "man intro" (without the quotes) and hit Enter. Try the up and down arrow keys. Try the spacebar and the 'b' and 'h' and 'q' keys. That wasn't so bad, was it? Most distros use less(1) to page through manpages. Those arrows and single keystrokes to move around are less(1) commands. (Did you ever use '| more' in MS-DOS? "Less is more" you know.)
Most manpages have a "see also" section. You can learn unix by following those. But take it a little at a time.
"Is there a book?" Lots of them. I like _Linux Cookbook 2nd ed_ by Michael Stutz. You might like the venerable _Running Linux_ by Matt Welsh et al. I think there are online versions.
"universal?"
The file and text commands in chapter 1, and most of the maintenance commands in chapter 8 are fairly standardized. Commands to get updates and create user accounts vary. If a command is peculiar to your distro, it will say so in the manpage.
"He wanted me to see that Fedora could do the same things that Windows does, but you have recommended Knoppix."
If you have a friend willing to train you on Fedora, go with Fedora. He's a "local expert" and there is no better resource. (Unix was designed for "viral marketing" and training. Much of the reason it's the way it is comes from that. People are supposed to share it and show it and bring their friends up to speed. The whole concept of software as a product in a shrink wrapped box that you figure out from menus all alone came much later, and a lot of us feel it's a travesty.) If he already installed Fedora for you and showed you how to do the updates, you are already way past experimenting with a live CD like Knoppix.
It's time to have some fun. Ask your friend to show you XMMS and xmcd and vlc and The GIMP and gaim and Audacity. And Tux Racer.
Thank You - For helping me with the commands
by butter - 2/12/07 6:16 AM In reply to: unix heritage commands? reference? by clsgisClsgis
I do Love Cnet for having a place where a person can come and get great information and help from the member community. Now that I have said that, I want to Thank You for the replies to my questions about Linux. A big light bulb went off in my old head this morning when I read your answer about linux commands being univeral UNIX commands.
Some many, many years ago I have the opportunely to have some training on a Unix machine. I did learn alot of unix commands in order to do the work that I was doing but I have forgotten them because I have not need to use them. Now I remember some of the commands that you are talking about like the "man", "who", ls", and "grep".
They all started to come back to me when you said Unix. I even have an old book that we got in training called "A Practical Guide to Unix System V" by Mark G Sobell.
Now you know that I am dating myself. LOL
But again I just wanted to Thank You Again for all your help.
I am on my way to re-learn something new that I had forgotten.
Butter
Dual Boot - Thanks!
by jeffrob - 2/12/07 7:45 AM In reply to: dual boot setup, install Linux first by clsgisThanks for the help. I really appreciate it. I'll check out the links as well. I'd really like to get this working.
Sell the Toshiba; Buy an Intel Mac (linux, Vista,VMware )
by Jim Babcock - 2/9/07 9:04 AM In reply to: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The ONLY true UNIX-based box for the Personal computer world is Mac OS X. It will not only run Berkeley's UNIX, it runs ANY MSFT Windows system, plus any of the Open Source Linux systems , PLUS VM ware OS, and on & on... Sorry, Apple makes you buy their HW at a premium price... But, you get what you pay for.
I recently used a 3rd party Partitioner (there is a free one in Linux 'iparted') to properly re-partition my main HD. And, iPartition allows one to pre-size the two needed linux partiitons prior to installing. I first tried using the Ubuntu Partitioner and that was a disaster. Not until I finagled my available space so Linux would NOT take it ALL, was an install successful.
My Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Long Term Stability) system installed from the 'Live CD' I received from the Ubuntu community. Updates are numerous at the start, but eventually slow down to a small one every 10 days or so.
What was the hardest for me is to immerse myself into the linux "culture" . Basically that is an educational process (and one of the reasons I started the Linux study in the first place). And this remark leads me to my advice: IF you really HAVE to stick with Windows, by all means take the expert advice from the other posters and 'migrate', do not dive in cold turkey!. Especially if you have never used the UNIX terminal command language before. I started on UNIX boxes in the late 70's - early 80's so, and I continue to use OS X terminal command language in maintenance of OS X..
To close, I don't 'really' expect you to buy a Mac. Just be sure to START with Windows (XP SP2 instead of Vista?) and follow the advise to move slowly into Linux.
Cheers, Jim B
Linux use question
by ullrich9 - 2/9/07 9:17 AM In reply to: 2/9/07 Is the Linux operating system for me? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
It was mentioned that the OS could be run from a CD or a USB. Why couldn't it be put on an external harddrive and run from there?
external hard drive
by clsgis - 2/9/07 3:10 PM In reply to: Linux use question by ullrich9Sure, why not. Any disk drive. If your BIOS can't boot it, you'll have to keep a CD around for that.
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