Windows XP: Is Vista going to be the new Windows ME?
- 1/17/07 6:02 AM
I dont get it
by usrhlp - 1/26/07 3:10 AM In reply to: Is Vista going to be the new Windows ME? by R. Proffitt
I am using Windows Vista now with an Unsigned Beta Drive for my Netgear WG511T wireless PCMCIA card. I have no issues with DRM or things not working or anything going wrong. Everything works fine. Am i missing something fundamental in this whole article?
Stick with XP
by dmt2 - 1/26/07 4:24 AM In reply to: Is Vista going to be the new Windows ME? by R. Proffitt
Personally I'm going to stick with XP Pro for as long as possible - hopefully 3-4 years. Perhaps in that time Linux will be as accessible and easy to use/install as XP and I'll switch to that. Or perhaps a new OS will come on the market, or maybe Apple will sell OS/10 (or whatever OS they use) on the PC.
Vista is starting to smell bad.
Ubuntu Linux will do that now for you.
by slim-1 - 1/26/07 12:30 PM In reply to: Stick with XP by dmt2Easy to install OS, hardware & programs.
Tempted to Ad An 'Ad Hominem' Attack on Poster BUT ...
by pmchefalo - 1/26/07 5:51 AM In reply to: Is Vista going to be the new Windows ME? by R. Proffitt
Anybody who gets advice from this post needs to do their own research into the history of Windows. But in short: all the Microsoft drivers that ship in the box or are available from the Vista Update site will be signed, if not optimized for your hardware, so your PC will probably work for all purposes until signed third-party hardware drivers appear. After all, who are the hardware vendors going to develop drivers for, fifteen Linux distros, or the Macintosh's closed hardware platform?
The Vista to ME comparison is ludicrous. ME was the Win 9x port of technologies intended for an NT-based OS that didn't ship because of a delayed development cycle. (In other words, XP was two years late.)
The goal was to merge the code-base for NT and 9x into a new operating system. Windows 2000 was ready but incompatible with older software. Microsoft was pressured by hardware manufacturers to release new operating systems that provided compatibility for newer devices, and so ME was released as a port for the consumer.
Vista has the XP code base to start from, and was delayed for years, allowing ME-type deficiencies to be vetted. Whereas there was one ME, Vista comes in multiple flavors, each with a big marketing budget. Vista has been beta-tested publicly, while ME as was the pattern early on was a private affair.
There's no chance that Vista will turn out like ME, and only an attention-deprived FUD-meister and self-proclaimed expert would say so.
Really?
by comicfan - 1/27/07 2:43 AM In reply to: Tempted to Ad An 'Ad Hominem' Attack on Poster BUT ... by pmchefalo[quote]here's no chance that Vista will turn out like ME, and only an attention-deprived FUD-meister and self-proclaimed expert would say so[/quote]
And you are a self-proclaimed expert so state this? You make enough "sure of yourself" statements to proclaim expert status attitude that you are right and everyone else is simply wrong. So show me your expert papers and i'll take your statement as being anything near tangible as well. I doubt the future of Vista will depend on this thread and I may be wrong, but these are user's opinions and how they feel. Just for the record, i've been here around 2 years and never heard Bob Proffit speak out against anything, that alone concerns me.That aside, I am a tech, I fix computers, do you? This Vista IS a step closer to closing out techs, it's bad enough jobs are dropping every day, so you may call people FUDS which just sounds completely ignorant anyway and usless but nonetheless, it's my livelyhood , I am concerned and I have a right to be.
Paul
You're Right About One Thing At Least
by pmchefalo - 1/27/07 6:44 AM In reply to: Really? by comicfanYou mention that Vista will drive jobs away from techs -- it will certainly reduce the amount of time needed to fix them with a tremendous amount of event and fault logging built in. Therefore it IS to your advantage to tolerate and spread FUD; just look at the concerns you list in your note.
I fix computers too (although I hate to do it, I'd rather be moving forward with my customers to improve things); I lock-down Windows machines (so I don't have to fix them); I have installed EVERY version of Windows including 1.x and the server versions; and I administer servers, Active Directory, and write software based on the Microsoft platform.
Those are my expert papers, and your welcome to comment negatively if you like. Mr. Proffitt's other postings here have irritated me for two years, and this topic is a special case.
I've read the DRM article cited, and the point of the article it was based on is: because of the hardware component of Intel's DRM scheme, and its slow adoption by hardware vendors, Vista will be less compatible with that scheme than we might like. The DRM tagging must be built into the devices, and they can't be upgraded to suit. However, when the hardware IS available, Vista will be compatible. Whether these DRM schemes will be adopted or not is moot, here, but Microsoft MUST partner with hardware and content providers vendors as it develops a product that will be shipping for five years.
Since I am NOT an expert on everything, like RP, what I don't know is whether any OTHER platform will be Intel DRM compatible: I find it hard to believe that Linux will be, or that current Apple offerings will be upgradeable. So, if you want to use a PC for media, caveat emptor.
Negative..
by comicfan - 1/27/07 1:58 PM In reply to: You're Right About One Thing At Least by pmchefaloIt's kind of hard not to post negative to your statements, you simply put it out there but I will try my best not to.
You may have installed every version of Windows, so have I , so has my son, I don't feel it's that large a task to be honest. I chose not to be admin , don't care for it. These are not expert papers from either you or I, simply bragging rights, well not even with so many that do this. I write HTML, going into programming, do graphics work as well, so what? So do a million others. My point is you are making statements and judgements on FUD, not technical. And I also know they have been working on software that will self repair sofware issues to the point there is no need for Admins save for hardware changes, what? Once every few months give or take. Which brings me to my next point...
You claim you would rather be moving forward, lol. Well the problem I see is this. If Vista has issues or future software, if techs are becoming locked out, who is going to fix them? Ohhhh, Microsoft would make a bundle wouldn't they? Or I hope people get used to re-installing A LOT. As far as Bob goes, you may not agree, yes Bob can be impolite, yes he makes short statements that leave people scratching their heads, yes he can even irritate you, but he knows what he's talking about and that's something i'll never dispute. If you've been here that long, you must know this.
"Sorry Bob, lol, no offense meant"
If in the future MS locks out vendors, I hope you trust MS security enough to not worry about it.
Linux has future plans to become what i've been wondering about for years, an OS for many who want more user friendly and affordable and compatable. I don't know how it will work, or IF it will, but it's a shot.
Vist and future versions i'm sure, are becoming a fire danger. Why do I say this? It's sort of like a home, you can seal every door, every window, board them all up,put chains on everything, now your house is safe right? If there is a fire, good luck getting out. Same for an OS, begin locking everyone out, fine, until the very same hacks decide to find a hole and take down the whole system which WE NO LONGER HAVE ACCESS TO.
So I think this is where the FUD belongs, not to those who are worried that one day their livelyhood may be at stake. It's the FUD you claim that puts the locks on the OS's, not from techs. Blame hackers and other malicious beings who exploit our systems, they caused this FUD , not people like me.
Paul
Too early to tell......
by Maaria322 - 1/26/07 6:47 AM In reply to: Is Vista going to be the new Windows ME? by R. Proffitt
It really depends on the corporate and business sector as to how successful Vista will be. If companies migrate to it from Windows 2000, NT, and XP then it will be around for awhile. If not, then it may go the way of ME. Of course Microsoft could force the issue by stopping patches and fixes for those older operating systems.
I work in the computer field. Mainly big companies running IBM Mainframe and Midrange systems/applications that support thousands of users and jobs at one time. Currently working with an IBM iSeries(AS/400) that typically has 15,000 active jobs running at the same time. About 1/2 are interactive the other are batch or hardware connections such as printers and scanners. Of course we all have a PC at our desk running emulations software to access the iseries. Though I don't claim to be a PC expert, I think I have a little more knowledge than the average Joe when it comes down to it. I have been making a living in the IT field for 20+ years and I remember writing my first program on a TI994a back in 83.
I have always had a love/hate relationship with Microsoft. Somethings they do really well, other things annoy the heck out of me. Personally, I would really likt to see Linux give Microsoft some competition. For my personal at home PC's I have always ran Microsoft O/S. When XP can no longer handle the job, I think I am going to give Linux a try. Worse case scenario, I end up having to go to Vista, but I won't be happy about it.....
The Vista Content Protection
by mroberts2112 - 1/26/07 7:13 AM In reply to: Too early to tell...... by Maaria322"The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history"
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Thanks for that article.
by R. Proffitt - 1/26/07 1:43 PM
In reply to: The Vista Content Protection by mroberts2112
It reiterates my thought about Vista. My comparison to Windows ME was not to stability but how loved Windows ME was when it came to drivers and other areas.
Bob
Why Vista is 180° from ME
by j_a_s_p_e_r - 1/26/07 8:36 AM In reply to: Is Vista going to be the new Windows ME? by R. Proffitt
The big problem with ME was stability. Everyone has to give Vista one thing at least : stability. The main culprit to stability is bad drivers. Microsoft had to take a stand and I applaud them, hardware manufacturers pushed the blame way too long and have to onw up to the poor quality drivers they made.
Then why does Microsoft make the hardware manufactures pay
by slim-1 - 1/26/07 12:33 PM In reply to: Why Vista is 180° from ME by j_a_s_p_e_rMicrosoft should pay them if anything.
It's An Eco-system
by pmchefalo - 1/26/07 12:58 PM In reply to: Then why does Microsoft make the hardware manufactures pay by slim-1Vendors want to sell new product on a popular, "new" platform. Microsoft wants operating system to run well on current and new hardware, certifies drivers. Please note that the OS is still only 25% or less of the delivered system costs: the higher-end the system, the lower the Microsoft %-age. So why should Microsoft pay hardware manufacturers, exactly?
We're not talking Apple here where all the markup on everything goes to the seller. Or XBox 360, where Microsoft does pay for the driver development, and sells the systems at a loss, hoping to make it up in services and software sales.
I was not saying that they should make Microsoft pay.
by slim-1 - 1/28/07 10:24 AM In reply to: It's An Eco-system by pmchefaloBut that it makes even less sense for Microsoft to charge them.
Microsoft is getting hardware support that adds to it's value and then charging the hardware makers for the right in include it.
Many Linux users would love to have the hardware makers include drivers to were they didn't have to work around the manufacturers to make the device work.
Yet Microsoft charges for something that increases the value of their OS. I does increase the value of the hardware as well which is why nether should charge.
Blame
by comicfan - 1/27/07 3:07 AM In reply to: Why Vista is 180° from ME by j_a_s_p_e_rAnd who is to push the blame for a poor OS and browser *cough IE*. IE6 had known issues for what, well over a year before anything was done about it? Who do we blame, driver companies? Who do we blame when an OS doesn't have valid support for new and upcoming drivers do to lack of foresight? Funny, when I first used ME, it wasn't driver issues I had, it was OS issues. People would run the same drivers and jump right back to 98SE because it was still more stable than ME. So if in fact it was the drivers in all cases, this wouldn't have occured. I could still load a 98 system right now, and it would hold up better than ME does. ME was dubbed "Many Errors" for a reason. I simply can't swallow main culprit being bad drivers when it comes to MS. They rushed to get the 9X to NTFS bridge out there and screwed up and as I stated, MS thinks about it's OS first and other vendors last and leave the mistakes for us to deal with from both parties. MS is not cooperative and never has been with outside doings to go along with their OS.
I am not saying NONE of it is due to poor drivers, some of it is and I agree to some extent. I also agree with the stability issue.
Paul
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