Home audio & video: LCD or Plasma? 720p or 1080i?

If I See You Use The Phrase ''Burn-in'' One More Time....

....I'm going to scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We use our plasma all the time for for O'Reilly, Gretta and the financial channel with the ticker on the bottom and have NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't get into it before in detail because it's just too involved.

There are two separate situations: one is burn-in and the other is image retention. You just talked about image retention above, not burn-in (which is caused by the margin on the side of the picture when watching 4x3 on a widescreen TV display like a plasma). Use the ''stretch'' mode on the plasma for 3x4 signals (with Panasonic this is called ''just'') and you will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER have a problem with burn-in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also use the pixel rotator (which all plasma's have) and you will never have any problem. Only if you are an idiot and go away and leave the plasma on one 3x4 channel or freeze a game or movie for weeks on end will you have a problem

It is threads like this that go on forever that give the burn-in subject a life of its own. Come back here in another year and you will see people who read this thread say ''I understand plasma's have a burn-in problem.''

How many times can we say it. Quality plasma's like Panasonic do not have problems with either burn-in or image retention if used reasonably and with the built-in features to prevent these past problems.

I for one recommend you purchase an LCD display just so we can finally drop the subject for awhile.

(I need a drink)

RR6


To answer your question buy a Panasonic TH-42PX60U (or it might be a TH-42PX6U at Costco for $1800). Look here:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11165532&Sp=C&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&N=4001381&No=2&Ne=4000000&Ns=P_Price|0||P_SignDesc1&Mo=16

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Panasonic_TH_42PX60U_42_Plasma_TV,__17866226/sort_type=bottomline

Enter your zip code at the lower right corner for prices to your house. Vanns might meet your requirements.

(NT) Oh, Wise Guy! (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk)

forgot altitude

Plasmas do not perform well if you are a high altitude. So if you live in Denver you will want an LCD. I have a 32' Sony Bravia XBR1 and it's very nice. I've had it several months and have had absolutely no problems with it. It only displays 1080i but my HD-DVD player looks great on it.

Almost all TV technologies...

have some sort of image burn-in or retention/persistance issue if ABUSED.

CRT's have it
Plasma's have it
LCD's have it

http://www.behardware.com/articles/615-1/lcds-with-persistent-images.html

http://maximumpc.com/2006/02/hp_lp2065.html

and if I recall correctly I've read similar reports on various AV forums discussing this issue with LCD TV's. These computer monitors use panels very similar to the panels used in LCD TV's so I would think there is some validity to these reports. Fortunately it does not seem too common or permanent.

SED's will likely have burn-in/retention as the tech is similar to CRT's.

If you want to go further, DLP Rear Projection units cause rainbows for some viewers and LCD Rear Projection units have blobs and misalignment. Both have short lamp life. And, to my eyes, they just don't have the same PQ as a Plasma or LCD.

I figure both Plasma's and LCD's are so close now that a person could go, sight unseen, for one that is acknowledged by the AV media as one of the top five in PQ, displays standard definition the best if you watch a fair bit of that, has a feature set you can live with, and ultimately gives you the best bang for the buck. Get it home and tweak the settings and you'll be better off not second guessing your purchase decision.

Btw... I'm a very happy 42'' plasma owner but if I'd had $1500 more to spend, to buy the same PQ 40'' LCD.... I'd have bought the 50'' plasma instead!! Bigger is better in AV!! LOL

.

1080i vs. 720P

Can somebody knowledgable tell me, once and for all, which to go with? I understand the technical differences between the two. And I also understand that for fast-moving pictures, 720p is better... and for static pictures, 1080i is better.

SO! Let's say I buy a 720p plasma, and it receives a 1080i signal. How can it convert 540 lines of actual resolution into a 720 line progressive scan?

Likewise, if I buy a 1080i plasma and it receives a 720p signal, how does it convert 720 lines of resolution to 540 lines interlaced to produce 1080 lines?

I need to figure out which type of tv to buy, and any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

I'm sold! Plasma (almost) & 40 - 42" displays - Big Mistake!

NB! You should make sure that any HD TV you buy has HDMI 1.3.

This probably explains the conflict problems with exisitng HD TVs - hidden secret of; editors, retailers and manufacturers!

To quote HDMI official organisation,

'Q: What products or applications will take advantage of new HDMI 1.3 capabilities?
According to announcements by manufacturers, new high-definition DVD formats (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) and game machines (including the Sony PLAYSTATION® 3) will make use of capabilities added in HDMI 1.3. Digital televisions will be able to present images that are closer to real life than previously has been possible. These will include LCD TVs, plasma displays and rear projection microdisplays. The PS3 which is scheduled to ship in November 2006, will be the first source product to provide such high quality imagery to these displays. It is expected that hi-def DVD players will follow early in 2007 with HDMI 1.3 support. A/V Receivers that can decode DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD will start to show up early in 2007 as well. Please check with the manufacturers for details.'

The official HDMI's website is below:
http://www.hdmi.org/about/faq.asp#q4_3

To quote,
'Q: When will products with HDMI 1.3 capabilities be available to the public?
Products using HDMI 1.3 capabilities are expected to become available this year starting with the PS3. Displays, DVDs and A/V Receivers are expected to ship early in 2007.'

This verifies that probably all HD products including extremely expensive ones, which have been purchased have been a completely waste of money in my opinion.

This probably means that; editors, retailers, and manufacturers were fully aware of the possibly con!

The first product with HDMI 1.3 version will be PS3 November 2006 and all other products including; LCD, Plasma won't be available until early 2007.

Therefore, as far as I am concerned any HD product purchased before 2007 and the HDMI 1.3 version products are available are a complete waste of money in my opionion!

Back to dealing with your message.

Buying a 40"-42" with HDMI 1.3 in 2007 is good.

I have already recommended to one person that with a LCD it can be fitted to the wall to create space.

The Sony 1980p LCDs are the equivalent to watching a normal CRT TV.

The only thing, which you have to do is to go to a Sony showroom and see the Sony 1080p TV for yourself.
Plasma supporters have exaggerated the viewing angle range of the Sony 1080p and despite me asking them to verify the Sony 1980p range I am at least 99% certain that they have not done so.
Either; you can take a tape measure or you can count your steps sideways and then count steps in front of the TV but I am 100% certain that the ang is so wide when you see it in the store it would be obvious that would be no problem without measuring-up or pacing the distance.
What one person told me was that they were looking at the average, which probably meant remove the best TVs and the worst ones and compare the rest.
I have made my opinion clear and that I am only concern with knowing, which should arguably finding out, which is the best TV in the 40"-42" range in the world, which at the moment appears to be the Sony 1980p TVs.
The principal disadvantages with the Sony compared to other present TVs appear to be:-
1) No Picture-in-Picture or seeing two things on the
TV similtaneously.
2) Possibly no Card Reader.
3) Standard Definition TV analogue picture maybe poor,
A) The persons may not alter the settings correctly.
B) When using a larger TV it requires more power,
which means that a more powerful external roof
TV aerial would be required.
1: If you want independent proof, ask a
competent local specialist TV aerial store
what power aerial would you need for a 40" TV
to get an excellent picture?
2: The quality of the cables being used will
substantially improve the quality of both the
sound and the picture quality if you are
using standard cables
(if you need advice let me know).

The USA models are; 1) KDL-40v2500
(cheapest and probably the best value for money)
2)KDL-40XBR2(middle) & 3)KDL-40XBR3(most expensive).

The advantage of the Sony 1080p TVs are that they arguably give the best TV picture quality for;
1) High Defintion DVDs (Blu-ray and HD DVDs)
2) HD (films and programmes)- Cable and Satelite
3) DVDs upscaled to 1080p - for example Sony 1080p
probably require a DVD upscaler for best results.
4) Video tapes up-scale - with DVD upscaler
5) DVDs
6) Digital cable and Satelite (programmes and films)
7) External Aerial(antenna)Analogue(programmes & films)
NB! Should use a good up-scaler, which should substantially increase all sources including standard Definition, which probably other people did not use.

There definitely is a burn-in problem with plasma TVs and when they occur it is permanent - stuck with it!

LCD problems are only temporary:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LCDTVFAQ?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&langId=-1&catGroupId=24974#tv1

Plasma problems:
No: 4 - I was told by probably CNET that the, 'break-in' period was just somebody's opinion, but now I can verify that particular statement was actually false.

No: 5 - This proves that the problem still exist, but obviously they don't admit to the fact that it is permanent.
BUT!!! To quote Panasonic No:5,
'which can leave a visible "shadow" effect... brightness level adjustments can dramatically reduce any chance of image retention... don't pause video games or watch TV stations with station logos onscreen for long periods of time, and use one of the many display calibration DVDs available today for properly setting brightness and contrast.

The rule of thumb: if you don't worry about your traditional tube TV, you don't have to worry about a Panasonic plasma TV..'.

The above by Panasonic is a pack of lies.
They never told me with a widescreen 28" CRT (tube) TV with prologic sound to do any of the above.
When I telephoned Panasonic in England back in 1999, and asked how many hours I could use my TV with my PC I was told that I would infringe my guarantee and that I should absolutely never use, despite that nothing was stated in the manual or instruction book!

The nearest thing, which I could find to a CRT (cathod Ray Tube) TV is the Panasonic's Combos,which has not got any warnings about displays:
1) Plasma had warnings but
2) Combos did not
This verivies what I said above!

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TVCombosFAQ?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&langId=-1&catGroupId=24996#combo6

The dealer who you should be dealing with is the official dealer to repair the particular manufacturer's product, which you purchased.

Verify that they can officially repair your product by asking the manufacturer.

Otherwise, retailer would have to collect TV.
Take it to an official Panasonic repair dealer, which is different from an official retailer.
Official repair dealer may have to order parts.
Repair TV after giving its own customers priority.
Arrange to have it collected etcetera.

I would once I have decided on a product then use the internet and magazines to find the cheapest official dealer who can repair product at home ( who has a national contract to repair TV even one hundred or two hundred miles away with a local dealer).
There is usually a lot of money, which can be saved between the lowest price and the retail price, probably $300 US in America and £300 GB sterling in England.

Ask Panasonic, since the life time of Panasonic is probably 60,000 hours, each time a defect occurs will Panasonic repair or replace my TV free under the guarantee?
I think that the answer will be no!

Pansonic claims that under normal usage there should be no problems with the display:
1) Therefore, it should be covered under guarantee
2) No restriction was placed on Panasonic LCD, because
it is obviously more reliable.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PlasmaFAQ?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&langId=-1&catGroupId=24973#tv2

No:6 I have too many experts claim that too many Plasmas are written off at the manufacturing stage.

Plasmas are too fragile and heavy, which raises the issue how can the life of the plasma be predicted accruately?

No:8 It is extremely difficult to compare TVs in a store, because:-
1) They are not set-up correctly
2) Certain TVs maybe set-up to look much better than
other TVs
3) Manufacturers are giving retailers specialist DVDs
& DVD players (in Japanese),which can only be to
make the TV look much better than it would under
normal conditions.

Continue quoting from HDMI organisation,
'Q. What version of HDMI does a consumer need to view 1080p content?

Viewing 1080p resolution requires at minimum that the HDTV have a display supporting the 1080p pixel resolution. Today, many HDTVs use display technologies (such as PDP, LCD, and microdisplay screens) designed for 720p pixel resolution.

In addition, many of today’s 1080p HDTVs support only 720p or 1080i on the HDMI input, then perform video processing to up-convert the 720p/1080i signal to 1080p.'

For example;
The Sony KDL-40V2000 (USA)- similar to KDL-40W2000 (UK)
should have 1080p HDMI input also.

Continuing to quote HDMI,
'This is now changing, as 1080p content is becoming increasingly available, and HDTVs fully supporting 1080p in the display and HDMI electronics have begun to reach the market in early 2006.

All versions of HDMI are backward compatible. Consumers should not look for a particular version of HDMI, but rather for the functionality that they want the device to support (SACD, 1080p, etc.).'

Virtually imposssible! Editors, retailers and manufacturers keep all the informations to theirselves and expect that consumers have the authorisations to demand that closed boses are open up frequently and read manuals to obtain information, which 99% doesn't know exist - very funny!

Continue quoting HDMI,
'Q. Do you need a new version of HDMI to play Blu-ray and HD-DVD content in high definition?

All versions of the HDMI specification support the ability to watch HD-DVD / Blu-Ray content in high definition up to 1080p resolution. However, there may be non-HDMI reasons that prevent some devices from accessing content in high definition, including lack of HDCP support.'

It gets worst!

Now, it is being claimed that HDCP lack of support is nothing to do with HDMI organisation. when it is probably the same organisations (including probably, editors, retailers and manufacturers) involved making at least millions.

Continue to quote HDMI,
'Q. Are HDMI 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 compatible with the next generation videogame consoles implementing 1080p and HDMI’s new deep color capability?

HDMI has been able to support 1080p content since version 1.0, and each new revision of the HDMI specification is fully backward compatible with previous revisions.

The HDMI Founders issued a press release during CES 2006 announcing that a future HDMI specification would expand the performance capabilities to support deeper color (up to 48-bit color RGB color) and higher resolution audio formats (such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD). PCs and videogame consoles in particular are expected to be capable of delivering content that takes advantage of HDMI's latest capabilities. When such sources are interfaced to older HDMI HDTVs, the source should automatically select the highest quality video and audio performance supported by the HDTV.'

The problem appears to be that HDTV with HDMI's; 1.0,2.0,2.0a will be limited to the TVs with HDMI 3.0+.

Continue to quote,
'Q. What is HDMI’s new deep color capability?

The new deep color capability lets manufacturers build devices allowing consumers to enjoy billions of colors with incredible visual clarity and detail. HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit red/green/blue color depths and color space, an upgrade from the 24-bit maximum resolution in previous versions of the HDMI Specification.'

The colour on TVs with HDMI 3.0 would be much better than earlier versions!

My best advice at the moment is to review the
Sony 1080p TV - KDL-40V2500.

It also appears that Sony is controlling the High Definition products being marketed for example PS3, first to be HDMI 1.3 version!

BUT!!!!!!! DONOT BUY ANY HD PRODUCT UNTIL YOU VERIFY BY CHECKING WITH THE MANUFACTURER AND THE MANUAL THAT THE PRODUCT CONTAINS HDMI 1.3 VERSION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!