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MP3 players: Best portable digital Audio Recorder for under $200 ?
Mic gain etc.
by pgoelz - 6/28/05 5:52 AM In reply to: R1 Sound Quality by L0WNot sure I can agree with you. I'll have to measure the signal to noise ratio on some of my sample recordings (see my web site www.pgoelz.com ) but I believe it is MUCH better than 35DB.
The key is the level of the sound you are recording. No, the gain structure is not really adequate for recordings of quiet ambient sounds (although the sample recording of outdoor noises on my web site isn't all that bad). But for just about anything else, I find there to be more than sufficient mic gain and signal to noise ratio.
The mission of my R1 is to record folk music in the field. For that, it is so far doing very well indeed. For some example recordings from my R1, see: http://www.pgoelz.com/edirol_r1_recordings.html
Paul
www.pgoelz.com
how much sensetivity?
by avraham1 - 6/28/05 10:44 AM In reply to: Mic gain etc. by pgoelzso how how much sensetivity should the mic give in order to have a good s/n ratio - 10mv/a, 20mv/a ect..? does it mean that if supply enough gain, than the edirol preamp won't work at all?
BTW, if i get a hot mic (much sensetivity) an use it for the line in, will i still need a preamp? or should i also consider impedance matching?
S/N ratios on your recordings
by L0W - 6/30/05 4:03 PM In reply to: Mic gain etc. by pgoelzThe only one of your recordings I could do an S/N calculation on was the dulcimer one - assuming that the noise before and after the 'its rolling' is the R1. On the R1 recording, your S/N ratio for the opening of the dulcimer part is indeed 35dB (which is what I found with my 'real life' recordings). As the band kick in, then obviously the signal level ups, and you're getting more like 40dB. For comparison your studio mic recording is around 50dB at the beginning of the piece, so there may have been more background noise than I am allowing for.
I stick to my guns on this, to get a reasonable S/N ratio, the source must be quite loud and/or very close to the internal mics - like an acoustic guitar 4-5 inches away (as per the demo recordings on Edirol site). You certainly would not be able to use eg a voice recording for broadcast purposes with the R1. Using external pre-amps though, and things do improve DRAMATICALLY.
Also i have found that the R1 draws current from batteries even when the device is switched off. I now remove batteries after every use and suddenly have found I am not having to replace the batteries every other day!
R1 noise
by pgoelz - 7/4/05 3:54 PM In reply to: S/N ratios on your recordings by L0WSorry, I don't read this board as often as I used to before the R1 Yahoogroup was created.
I checked the dulcimer recording you mentioned and I get an approximate S/N ratio at the beginning of the take (before the instruments play) of approximately 48DB. This is measured from the highest peak during the portion where the music is playing to the higest peak in the portion before the music begins. HOWEVER, the predominant noise is what I believe is a combination of low frequency noise (traffic rumble, etc) and probably some strings still vibrating from a previous start (a dulcimer does not become totally silent right away). I do not believe this is noise from the R1 input section. If I remove all noise below 200Hz, the S/N ratio becomes about 57DB, but that still includes noise that does not look to me to be from the R1. Note that I record in my living room in a quiet neighborhood but it is still in an urban setting so there is distant traffic rumble and various household noise that sneaks in. Plus, I do not always wait for all strings to be totally silent since they are completely masked when everyone starts playing.
To get a better picture of S/N ratio we need a quieter room and a definition of the average SPL of the sound source. In the mean time, I still think the S/N ratio is around 56DB for the kinds of music that I record.
In one area I do agree with you.... the R1 is probably not suitable for recording very quiet noises. But for most recordings I feel it is at least adequate for a sorta pocket sized unit. Especially considering what else is available.
Try some simple powered mics. I think they probably have a higher output and would make the R1 noise floor coorespondingly lower. I tried a simple stereo lapel mic from CompUSA and found that it had much hiher output than the internal mics. Unfortunately, it also sounded truly awful. 
Can you compare Edirol to microtrac 2496
by operagamblin - 9/27/06 6:58 AM In reply to: R1 Sound Quality by L0WI much appreciate you good comments on the RI sound quality. I am looking for a replacement of my old Sony DAT (TCD-D100) and this looks like a good candidate. I am curious if you have any experience with the Microtrac unit which seems comparable and about the same price. I will use the unit primarily with a microphone so your comments about the quality of the RI are a concern.
THanks for any thoughts you can share.
digital recording deck comparisons
by rick titus - 9/27/06 11:14 AM In reply to: Can you compare Edirol to microtrac 2496 by operagamblinA great deal of useful information can be found at
www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm#decks The author makes superb stealth mics and to my knowledge has no $ interest in the deck manufacturers that he reviews. I own his mics and wish him well.
thanks
by operagamblin - 9/28/06 12:50 AM In reply to: digital recording deck comparisons by rick titusDear Rick,
THanks for the lead. I will follow up. I appreciate your taking the time to repond.
Robert
Quo Vadis R1?
by souren3 - 3/5/06 1:58 PM In reply to: Edirol R1 looks good by TrampolinI just went to www.edirol.com/products/info/r1.html and they've deleted the page.
Having JUST bought the R1, it's kind of creepy when it looks like they are distancing themselves from their own product. (I know, I know, they're coming out with the new model in the US very soon, but still.)
Sony MD occasional problems but good for portable recording
by denisdubois - 10/13/06 6:53 PM In reply to: Information on CD quality digital audio recording by FredNI've had trouble lately with the Sony.
We've been using a Sony MZ-RH10 minidisk recorder to record panel discussions straight from the master line out of a small mixing board. Five or six of them went very well, no problems.
On the latest one the 90 minutes of audio was divided into 233 separate files, some as short as a few seconds, some as long as 10 minutes.
Sony tech support escalated the question, but could not come up with an explanation. Removing and replacing the battery made it behave better, but it still sometimes acts this way.
Obviously the 233 parts could be reassembled in Pro Tools and they were seamless.
best under $200
by pjb1124 - 1/1/05 5:33 PM In reply to: Best portable digital Audio Recorder for under $200 ? by Michael Kadar-kallenmost mp3 players between about $80 to $200 are pretty high quality in playback. the best would be an iPod or an iPod mini. i have an "ilo" mp3, which is actually a wal-mart brand. it has very good sound and is easy to use for $80.
and answering your question on a voice recorder-
don't bother. i don't think mine or any others are any good whatsoever. if you needed it to record a little reminder to youself and you didn't care how it sounded, okay. but it doesn't record music.
good luck
best under $200
by Exar Ganis - 1/3/05 4:16 AM In reply to: best under $200 by pjb1124If you want a small flash player, the best choice would be the Iaudio4, or Iaudio U2...
I have the 512MB flash player, and I got mine for 200 bucks. High quality, small, attractive, armband, fashionable necklace, Color LED, 16-21 hours of music.
www.iaudio.com
Best portable digital audio recorder....
by muse man - 1/8/05 12:39 PM In reply to: Best portable digital Audio Recorder for under $200 ? by Michael Kadar-kallenI use the sony MZ B10 w/ a built in mic & spkr. as an idea machine for songs etc (just press 1 button & no looking for an extrnal mic) then I also plug in a good stereo mic when I want to record 1 of my live shows or something. I also like the different speeds, ability to make new track marks easily after the fact etc.
The new Hi-MD players to the best of my knowledge can transfer at high speed to a PC (no Macs or built in mics yet, unfortunately) For the BZ10 I have to transfer at real time. One more item... the Edirol R-1 sound redcorder at a little over 400 might be worth looking at for some. The exact item we're all looking for has not yet appeared, unfortunately.
seeking the same
by zarath111 - 1/12/05 9:26 PM In reply to: Best portable digital audio recorder.... by muse manyes, nice to find a topic on the very subject I've been wondering about.
I'm looking for an MP3 player with 256meg flash memory, that has an audio recorder that either has a GOOD built-in microphone, or a line in mic. It should have a way to transfer files easily from the device to my computer with USB. And have variable bit-rate recording options.
I'd pay $200 for this, but it seems that nobody is making one just yet.
To my mind, the netMD minidiscs may be the best thing short of the really expensive devices (like the edirol r1).
If anyone comes across one, lemme know!
thepaintedbird@hotmail.com
thanks!
M-Audio Flash Tracker!!! This is the one!!!
by pvercello - 7/8/05 2:58 PM In reply to: Best portable digital audio recorder.... by muse manI'm also looking for a similiar such miniDisc replacement, and this forthcoming M-Audio device looks like the best bet so far! Good specs, not so expensive ($399 - a little higher than i'd like, but not bad). Except it's not shipping yet.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/flash/maudio-flash-tracker-100628.php
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/MM-MICROTRACKER
I've been using an IRiver H-120 20 GB mp3 player / recorder that works pretty well, and it's got digital inputs and outputs, in addition to a Mic In, Line In, and a built in Mic. You can make good recordings with an external microphone, and it records in many mp3 resolutions, as well as uncompressed .WAVE files. Only trouble is that it doesn't have level or clip indicators, nor is it easy to adjust the input gain while recording.
The trouble with all the recording features on the MP3 players is that they seem to be added as an afterthought - they're not as complete or accessible as the recording controls on a MD player, or something like the R-1 mentioned above.
I'm excited about this M-Audio device - seems like what everyone's been looking for.
pv
Best portable digital audio recorder under $400?
by Dan Nims - 10/7/05 8:22 AM In reply to: M-Audio Flash Tracker!!! This is the one!!! by pvercelloI just picked up the M-Audio Micro Track 24/96 after placing an order with a local dealer. Bear in mind, I was so anxious to try it out that I only read enough of the manual (charge the battery; format the media card) to make it work. There is a lot more to learn from the manual (which comes on CD.)
In spite of the price (ok, good stuff doesn't come cheap) there is a lot to like with this device. It is suprisingly light, and the amount of features they've cramed into it is amazing. The recordings I've made so far are the ''demo'' type, capturing conversations and other sounds, then listening with headphones. The ''earbuds'' supplied work but seem rather flimsy. I'm using my Sony MDR-150 and the playback is great!
When you plug in the supplied USB cable to a computer, the unit shows up as ''removeable media'' and the computer then treats it like another drive. Files can be transferred with click and drag from the flash card to the computer hard drive and the other way around. I dropped a couple of wav file music tracks in the card (these had been ripped from a CD)
and the playback thru headphones sounded terrific when I later disconnected the USB cable.
I have not used the TRS balanced inputs yet as I need an adapter to use XLR connectors. Considering how good the supplied tee-shaped stereo mike works (not a scientific evaluation) I am prepared to be impressed with using a pair of condenser microphones. (Yes, there is a phantom power switch)
I'm not sure how practical this outfit is for the person who wants mostly to listen to MP3 music files. Yes, you could easily load up a compact flash card with your tunes and the package is quite small and easy to carry. The cost of flash cards to hold one's library may be more than what one would invest in an IPOD type player with a high capacity hard drive built in. What I wanted was something to capture high quality audio and be small and lightweight AND be easy to download recordings to a computer. Owning this only a few days, I believe I bought the right one!
Incidentally, I have not opened the package with the 64 MB flash card yet, as I found a good deal on a Sandisk Extreme III one-gigabyte card on E-bay and bought it in anticipation of getting this recorder. This will also fit my digital camera. The chart listed on the CD-ROM manual shows it should permit a little over an hour of recording time at 24 bits, 44.1.
(For those about to buy one: Control your zeal as you tear open the package. The battery needs charging and the first time they recommend you leave it plugged in for six and a half hours. I did as advised but that's a long time to wait to play with a new toy!)
Dan Nims
Eugene, Oregon
Dan-Nims@comcast.net
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