Games & gear: Sony's Secret Weapon=Time
Sony's Secret Weapon=Time
by Lovethechamp - 9/22/06 4:20 PMI am a little surprised by people and their reaction to Sony and the PS3. Many of you seem to think that everything Nintendo has ever done has been a resounding success and that they've followed through on all the things that they have promised. Where is the online play for the GC? Where is Twilight Princess? I reserved that game months before they decided to abandon the GC just like the 3rd party developers.
Let us also not forget as we speculate that PS3 titles will cost $100 that Xbox360 titles are $60, and that N64 games sold for $79. Fortunately PS3 games will retail for the same price point as Xbox360 titles. You say Sony is just supporting Blu-ray and 1080p because their TV's can use it...well...duh!! Sony is in business, and to strengthen that business they are going to maneuver and position themselves for success, be it buy cutting prices or adding an innovative technology that was developed by someone else (motion sensory). If you think about it, every time there is a new development or a leap in technology, it is never a proprietary development. Why? Because everyone copies everyone else, and do so by doing just enough not to get sued. (See early AMD processors)
If history is any indication, the PS3 will be the best of all next-gen consoles. The N64 got out of the gate first and was crushed the PSone. Dreamcast raced out and was crushed by the PS2 which in turn was crushed by the Xbox (at least technologically). Sorry N fans the GC was never really a factor, kinda like Ross Perot. In this case, Sony has had a chance to see the competition, get their hands on it, play it, and best it. Just like Microsoft did with the PS2. Sony already being established, unlike MS with the first Xbox should see a tremendous response when the PS3 launches.
Furthermore the price point becomes less and less of a factor when you consider all the peripherals for the Xbox and Wii, the cost of the online service and the downloads. If a 360 owner buys the new external HD-DVD drive, you have just basically paid the same price for your Xbox as you would for a PS3, give or take about $20 bucks which when you've already spent $600 is really no big deal. And while I recognize that you could just as well chose not to buy the drive, there is clearly a demand for the player, or MS would not put money into development, marketing and production of such. And yet nobody says that they are just copying Sony. The fact is that this will be a 2 horse race between Sony and MS (again) and time will tell which will sell the most, regardless whichever you chose you will be blown away. Sorry Wii guys that system is an afterthought, kinda like Ralph Nader. I may buy one for the exclusive 1st party titles when it comes down to $100-$150 because when the 3rd parties bail they'll port em' to the big boys.
I agree. Somewhat
by FimShady - 9/22/06 5:55 PM In reply to: Sony's Secret Weapon=Time by Lovethechampsing it, my brother. TESTIFY!
I don't know where all the super anti-Sony sentiment is coming from. I've heard people state that they aren't buying the PS3 because they think that Kutaragi is too arrogant. Who gives a flying you-know-what about his attitude? I'm not buying his personality! I'm buying the game console.
Now, the PS3 has seen a price cut (in Japan at least) and the dream of dreams, the 20 gig now sports an HDMI port. The same people that were griping on the price are calling the move a sign of weakness. You know what else is a sign of weakness? Not giving credit where credit is due.
And I give no credit to the Wii. Nintendo is patting itself on the back over the fact that their console will be profitable right out of the box. Of course it will! When you sell 120 bucks worth of hardware at 250 bucks, its clear that a profit will be made. Ninty fanboys can scream "it's all about gameplay" all they want. It's all about PROFIT. Buy the Wii, and you are overpaying.
The PS3, on the other hand, is the best value you can buy on the market. This baby will last at least 5 years. Two years from now, the Wii will look even more gimped than it does right out of gate. The Wii is NOT a next gen system. Oh, and to the uber desperate fanboys thinking that Nintendo will suddenly reveal that the graphics are actually way better than they've been showing? Well I guess that just proves that even you know the Wii's graphics are sub par.
PS3 makes the most sense this generation. Get over yourselves and admit it.
Flawed Facts
by OldBrownShoe08 - 9/22/06 8:14 PM In reply to: Sony's Secret Weapon=Time by LovethechampYou are correct, Sony is in business. They are in the TV business, the movie business, the computer business, the camera business and last but not least the game business. While this may speak well of Sony as a company in general it does not speak well for it's game business in particular. Sony is pushing use of their other products over use of their game console. To fully realize the PS3's potential requires not just the $600 console but also expensive games, expensive Blu-Ray movies and a big expensive Sony HD television. Compare that to the Wii, cheaper console and cheaper games with a brand new control scheme, not the same format recycled for the third time in a row. What brought this new innovation to Wii? A focus on games and their quality, not what will encourage the consumer to spend the most.
You point out the N64 was raced out and was crushed, you point out the same thing for Dreamcast. Yet when I look at the current generation it is the PS3 that is being rushed out ahead of the Wii, not the other way around. According to your own information, history has shown that the last out has the last laugh, and in this case, history favors the Wii.
Another major part of your argument is that when the day is done and peripherals and games are added up price point will make less of a difference. Yet compare the actual prices, $250 for the Wii, $180 for three Wii remotes and nun-chucks, and $100 for two Wii games at launch. Your total, $530. $70 less than the starting price of the PS3. That means by the time you add up all the games and extra controllers for the PS3 your price points are once again drastically different. Plus most people will not be buying all that at launch, instead only purchasing may be one extra nun-chuck and Wii remote set and letting friends bring their own over to share their Mii characters. This will lead to a major lack of PS3 sales, especially when people are looking for presents come the holiday season.
If anything I believe it will be the 360 who draws the short straw this time around. For all the Xbox's, "success," it still lost billions of dollars for Microsoft. The lack of built in HD-DVD player and the slight improvements of the PS3 over the 360 make it n either here nor their, a middle position that will not last for long. Due to the great similarities between the 360 and PS3 the two systems will cannibalize the same market, leaving the Wii high and dry with it's new non-gamer market share plus all those who have loved and followed Nintendo franchises since the days of Super Mario Brothers and Zelda I. Wii has the new innovation and the right price to put the PS3 and Xbox 360 far in the rear in this generation of consoles.
The fact remains that...
by make_or_break - 9/23/06 12:45 AM In reply to: Sony's Secret Weapon=Time by Lovethechampwith the 360, you have a CHOICE in whether or not the hi-def drive should be part of your purchase. With the PS3, that option is taken away from you. And furthermore, with the 360, there's nothing that says that a BluRay drive can't be developed later on if that platform wins out, whereas it's doubtful Sony will acquiesce quietly if HD-DVD ends up winning this fight (if indeed you want to cite Sony's past history as an indicator). And WhereTF is this supposed pent-up demand on the 360 side? Both HD-DVD and BluRay content sales are tanking, and doing it BIG TIME; only the most hard-core videophiles are willing to adopt either, or both. And people though PSP UMD movie sales were bad.
You should read some of the press reports coming out of the Toyko Game Show going on now...some are positively scathing; these guys in the Japanese press are NOT being very kind to Sony. Considering the technology wrapped up the the Cell processor and BluRay, there seems to be a universal comment concerning a lack of innovation in the actual gaming experience, something the Wii is perceived to have in spades over both the Sony and MSFT consoles. And many of these reports seem to have already declared Nintendo as the clear winner.
BTW, AMD, among others, was sued by Inhell for their 'copying'/patent infringements of X86 technology, even though AMD ultimately prevailed.
And even more pointedly, why should past history provide some sort of automatic bank for Sony? Considering all their foul-ups of late, why should ANYONE blindly believe that they can get the PS3 right, paricularly considering all the delays and false promises leading up to this point?
samll point
by bedlamboy838383 - 9/28/06 2:18 PM In reply to: The fact remains that... by make_or_break"with the 360, you have a CHOICE in whether or not the hi-def drive should be part of your purchase. With the PS3, that option is taken away from you."
did you ever think that maybe sony wanted to include support for a larger capacity disk that could enable publishers to increase game content?
Valid, but...
by make_or_break - 9/28/06 5:09 PM In reply to: samll point by bedlamboy838383Many game publishers have enough trouble filling a DVD's worth of content, let alone a BluRay or HD-DVD disk's worth.
true, but despite that it still makes sense
by bedlamboy838383 - 9/29/06 8:44 AM In reply to: Valid, but... by make_or_breakthat is true but when the ps2 and xbox were released neither HAD to support DVD as a format but it was a smart move. You say sony forces blu-ray on you, but why wouldnt they incorporate it right out of the box. If it is production from the get go then that is one less add-on you will have to buy in the future and will help reduce cost to Sony and the consumer on down line. Also, it is backwards compatible so developers don't have to utilize it if they dont see fit and with some recent developments in media production the cost will likely drop significantly within a year or so.
Hello you inaccurate living sony commercial
by furbyhater - 9/23/06 7:04 AM In reply to: Sony's Secret Weapon=Time by LovethechampYour whole post was just one big commercial trying to justify and glorify sony in every possible way, and you can't even get your "facts" straight and are telling us that the n64 came out before the psx? stfu n00b...
You are correct
by Lovethechamp - 9/23/06 8:52 AM In reply to: Hello you inaccurate living sony commercial by furbyhaterYes in the fervor of writing that article I did misquote the release order of the PSOne and the N64. The N64 was released in the U.S. in 1996 whereas the PSOne made it's debut in 1995. However the "it was crushed" part was spot on. That being said, rather that address any of the points made therein, you chose to resort to juvenile insults. "stfu n00b" I believe it was. You MUST be a scholar. I am not trying to glorify Sony, though I do enjoy my Grand Wega and PS2 and I will enjoy my PS3 as well.
What I am trying to do is understand why so many of you seem to hate Sony, when the system isn't even out yet. You Wii lover's seem to forget to old addage "You get what you pay for". You all seem to think that the price is $250 because the big N "cares about gamers". WRONG!!! It's $250 because the can't justify selling it for anywhere near the price of an Xbox 360 or a PS3. You know, a real game system. They had to include Wii sports to justify the $250. Also they point that Nintendo is after non gamers is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Someone should tell them that gamers play video games. This thing will be the GC all over again and all you'll have to show for it is a stupid gimmick controller. They should have spent more time on the system rather that this innovative controller which you'll use to play games that are not even on par with last gen's Xbox of PS2.
In Reply
by OldBrownShoe08 - 9/23/06 10:57 AM In reply to: You are correct by LovethechampYou get what you pay for. I look in the news and I see that the PS3's Core price has been lowered in Japan to about $410, around 20% less. Does that mean that when you buy a Core in Japan you get 20% less than when you buy a Core anywhere else? No it does not, it means that Sony realized nobody was going to spend $510 on any game system, no matter what the hype is. Yet the price remains the same here in the US. You are paying a price that even Sony realizes is too high, as shown by their Japanese price cut.
Nintendo is charging $250 for the system because that is all it costs to make. That's right, the Wii doesn't have really high priced graphics or extra Blu-Ray video capabilities. That is because they know most people can't afford that. When you look at a photograph, an identical picture to real life, do you enjoy it more than looking at the Mona Lisa, or a Van Gogh. I certainly hope not. Those paintings, while not as true a representation of real life as a photograph, have a much greater message and many hidden meanings. The same can be said for many Wii games. Mario and Zelda are classics of the video game world, people have grown up playing these characters and loving them. Everyone knows Mario, he is a pop culture figure. Such games are much deeper than anything on the PS3 and don't need an ultra high price to be fun. And they do not need to look like real life because they aren't real life. They are a video game and that is what makes them fun.
Right now, gamers play the 360, gamers play the PS2 and gamers play the GameCube. Yet, look at the Nintendo DS. Huge sales and an amazing success. Why? Because they have tapped the non-gamer market with nan-gamer games such as Nintendogs, Animal Crossing and Brain Age. Huge new demographics are being opened in front of the DS and the result is a wave of profitability and new gamers. These new gamers will migrate to the Wii and even more will be drawn as new even more innovative games come out. PS3 and the Xbox 360 on the other hand, will be forced to feed off each others consumer pools and will not be able to grow and expand the market. Truly, the Wii is the wave of the future.
"Wii is the wave of the future" LOL
by lyard3518 - 9/23/06 3:53 PM In reply to: In Reply by OldBrownShoe08For the sake of the gaming community, I hope the Wii is NOT!!!! the wave of the future. Let's look at the facts. Although the Wii is the cheapest of the 3 consoles, this is due to the fact that there isn't much of a leap in game graphics from the GameCube. The hardware of the Wii can best be described as that of an overclocked Gamecube. Wonder why Nintendo has been reluctant in giving specifics about the Wii's hardware capabilities? Because not only do they know their isn't much of an improvement from the Gamecube, they know it pails in comparison to that of the PS3 and the 360. Also, the Wii has less third-party games than the PS3 and 360 plan to have. It gets on my nerve how they milk their current franchises to death. Have I grown up with Mario? Yes. Do I like playing his games? Occasionally yes. Do I like it when a gaming company bases most of their games on a few franchise characters? NO I DO NOT!!! You can tell that Nintendo wasn't aiming high for the Wii. The Wii looks like it will neeed replacement in 2 years, while Sony and Microsoft are aiming for at least 5 years for their respective game consoles. Finally, it appears to me that Nintendo is basing all of their hopes on the WIi's motion sensory controls. While it's not a bad idea, it's far from revolutionary technology. Don't forget, a motion sensor control was created for the XBOX by a third-party company, but people took little notice of it and it eventually died off. From what I see now, although Sony will loose a lot of marketshare to Nintendo and Microsoft, it will still be on top.
HD And... Nothing
by OldBrownShoe08 - 9/23/06 7:49 PM In reply to: "Wii is the wave of the future" LOL by lyard3518Everyone already knows that the Wii has poor graphics compared to the PS3 and 360. But what most people should realize is that HD televisions still cost a huge amount and most people can't afford them. To get the full effects of the PS3's graphics you have to pay at least another $600 to get a small HD TV, and even then not a very good one. When played on a normal SD TV, as the majority of consumers will, the difference between Wii and 360 or PS3 is hardly noticeable. And Nintendo has already stated that by the next generation they believe HD televisions will be prevalent enough to make the system support HD. So don't worry, if you're rich enough to afford an HD television game systems will support you in the future, just not right now when you are the small minority.
The Godfather, Excite Truck, Red Steel, Resident Evil:Umbrella Chronicles and Splinter Cell. Those are just five third party games coming to the Wii. Those games look amazing and they are only the tip of the ice berg. Ubisoft alone is providing huge amounts of support, much more than they did for the admittedly sub-par GameCube. Everyday new developers are announcing their intent to create games based on motion sensitive and point related controls.
Yes, many of Wii's hopes are tied to the new controls. But look at how successful the new controls were on the DS, it tapped a previously untouchable market. No developers developed for the Xbox's motion sensitive controls because they were only available in an obscure third party controller that most people did not own. There was no way that a developer could trust in a control scheme that most consumers could not utilize without buying all new controllers. With the Wii, everyone is guaranteed to have motion sensitivity and a pointer.
I believe that innovative and effectively used technologies, combined with large 1st and 3rd party support, plus the opening of new markets will result in a win for the Wii. Leaving Microsoft and Sony to compete for those few who have the large amounts of money required to use the new HD technology that seems to be the only thing that differentiates them from the previous generation.
I own an HDTV
by typical_guy - 9/23/06 9:27 PM In reply to: HD And... Nothing by OldBrownShoe08I actually own a $2,200 Sony HDTV. I don't play games tons though. I play a few hours a week. I bought an HD-DVD player ($500 model) during the summer (before the Blu-ray player was released) so I could watch Serenity in HD. That was more or less the only reason I wanted it back then. Since then I've picked up about 30 of the HD-DVDs. I'm a big movie fan and watch tons of movies.
This said, I wouldn't spend 600 bucks to play video games. Now the PS3 will indeed play Blu-ray movies but I haven't found anything that is out for Blu-ray that I say I "must have" like I did with Serenity (also Constintine came out for HD-DVD and wow does it look good, also Aeon Flux). Another factor is that the PS3 is only going to do 1X Blu-ray play speed, not that it matters much since there's only a few movies I'm even interested in at all and none that I "must have" as of yet.
I own and HDTV and there was no way I was going to wait 5 or 8 years to watch dvds in HD, it just didn't make sense to me to wait for the "war" to end. If HD-DVD loses then I'll still have my player to play the movies I own and to upconvert the older dvds and then I'll pick up a Blu-ray player assuming I haven't bought one by then (if something I must have in HD comes out for Blu-ra). Lets face it, the PS3 is only useful if you own an expensive TV and you play games A LOT. For me, a few hours a week doesn't justify spending that kind of money on hardware. I do however spend many hours watching movies and I didn't have a regular dvd player (I recently moved a great distance and gave my old one to my former roommate).
LOL THE WII DOES NOT HAVE LARGE 3RD PARTY SUPPORT
by lyard3518 - 9/24/06 3:24 PM In reply to: HD And... Nothing by OldBrownShoe08Anyone who says the Wii has good 3rd party support doesn't know what games the Wii is missing out on. Here are some of the games that will be available on the PS3 and 360, but not on the Wii:
-Half-Life 2
-Resident Evil 5
-Unreal Tournament 2007
-Assassin's Creed
-and the biggest of them all...GRAND THEFT AUTO 4!!!
Good 3rd party support, I think not.
As for HDTV, Nintendo might be right in saying that HDTV isn't prevailent today but that means Nintendo doesn't have a long life-span in mind for the Wii. It appears to me that Nintendo has a 2-3 year life span in mind for the Wii, while both Microsoft and Sony have at least 5 years in mind for their own consoles. Due to development costs, it's cheaper to creat a console that lasts long-term rather than a console with a short life span. Also, I attribute the success for the DS more to it having better games than the PSP than the touchscreen. Although the Wii may have a lot of hype coming out, I doubt it can keep that momentum. It'll definately do better than the GameCube, but not as well as the 360 and PS3 will.
What's New?
by OldBrownShoe08 - 9/24/06 6:54 PM In reply to: LOL THE WII DOES NOT HAVE LARGE 3RD PARTY SUPPORT by lyard3518Say what you want but many developers have stated that they wish to develop games for the Wii in the future, and as the second wave of games comes around we shall see which console is able to retain and gather the most support.
You point out that it is cheaper to produce a console for the long term. Yet Nintendo is the only one making money on their console and that is at a much lower price. So Even if Nintendo is intending the Wii to only last three years it will still make more money on the console than Microsoft or Sony and the next generation will have a leg up on the outdated competition. Which Wii buyers will be able to afford because this system is not even half the cost of the others.
You attribute the success of the DS to its content over its controls, but look at the PSP. It can play movies, it has an mp3 player and it plays games, it should have three times as much content as the DS could ever hope to get. Somehow the DS is still a huge triumph, why? Because of the innovation and brand new style of interaction that allows brand new types of games to come to light.
As for the PS3 and 360, besides having better graphics, which I have already pointed out does not necessarily make for better games, what else is new about them? The PS3 has the last minute motion sensitivity which most developers aren't utilizing and it has blu-ray which might not even exist in a couple of years. What do they offer that is different from the previous generation? Nothing.
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