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Community Newsletter: Q&A: 9/8/06 Is an HDTV worth buying even without an HD source?

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator - 9/7/06 4:35 PM
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Post 16 of 183

Lots of Bad Info

by mrgadget2 - 1/27/07 12:37 AM In reply to: Honorable mention by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

I work for a major retailer, in home electronics. One of the biggest problems I see on a daily basis is mis-information. The post by Lee Koo is a good example of what I see on a daily basis.

He stated: "NTSC broadcasts are scheduled to stop completely, and the government has mandated a switch to HD broadcasts. When that will happen depends on whether Congress extends the deadline or not."

This is totally NOT TRUE. Of the three signals being used for the transmission of television (1- Hi Def; 2- Digital; 3- Analog), the truth of the matter is that analog is being eliminated. The government is not mandating a switch to Hi Def. Analog is being removed from the equation, which leaves Hi Def and Digital.

Having read Mr Koo's article, I appreciate much of what he has to say. But telling people that the government is mandating HD can cause a lot of problems... especially since it is not true.

There is so much mis-information out there right now that most consumers are lost. One of the biggest reasons they are lost is that too many people that we assume are authorities on the subject, are themselves only semi-informed.

I have seen articles in PC Magazine, Consumer Reports, and countless other places where someone is saying things about HD or the purchase of an HDTV that is totally wrong, and off the wall.

Aside from my job responsibilities to inform and educate, I have taken it upon myself to gain as much insight about HDTV as possible. And after many months of extensive research, the conclusion that I have come to is that this is such a vast topic with so many variables that one has to pretty much be an industry-insider to accurately differentiate all the components that must be in place to offer the best HDTV picture experience. I have also discovered that most of the people claiming to be authorities are far from it.

This topic is like the proverbial onion, with layer after layer, under each layer that is removed. 1080p vs. 720p; DLP, LCOS, DDILA, OLED, LASER; native resolution versus signal source; LCD versus plasma; motion blur, pixelization, motion artifacts, response time, etc, etc, etc.

Unless they/you work in the technical side of a television manufacturer, it is very highly unlikely that they/you are as HDTV savvy as supposed.

There are many factors affecting picture quality. Aside from the HD technology itself, there is no "one-thing" that trumps everything else. And even though HD is relatively new, there is already technology poised to sooner or later replace it. Such is life in the technological age.

It is important to do some level of homework before making a major purchase. It can save you the heartache of being led down the wrong path. What is really needed are some good web sights along the line of DPReview.com (a sight for digital camera info) that will do for HDTV what DPReview does for cameras. But just as important, these sights must go to great pains to ensure that they are providing accurate information.

Buying an HDTV does not have to be placed in a category equivalent to buying a home. The whole thing about "spec's" is being blown so far out of proportion that many people are refusing to wade in because they have become inundated with information... most of which is bad.

Unfortunately for most, unless you have access to someone like myself... who will shoot straight with you, and cut-to-the-chase... or unless you know someone that has some expertise gained from working on the manufacturing side of the HDTV industry, you are probably in for a rough go in making a good decision.

But just as we know: everything that glitters, is not gold... it is also true that just because a person sounds like they know what they are talking about... does not mean that they do.

Choose your advisor's carefully, and don't get caught up in all the hype.

When you set out to buy a car, you don't care about the density of the radiator hose, or the gear ratios of the transmission or rear end. You have some things that are important to you, and you seek out those things. But you look at a lot of the other stuff as minutia. If you didn't, you would never buy a car, because it would take a lifetime gaining the kind of knowledge necessary to understand what was and what was not important.

In my opinion, you should approach buying your HDTV from a similar perspective. You may as well, since neither you nor 99.9% of the people you talk to have enough insight to properly guide you.

Post 17 of 183

Other recommendations from our members

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator - 9/7/06 4:24 PM In reply to: 9/8/06 Is an HDTV worth buying even without an HD source? by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Answer:

My only suggestion is yes buy an HDTV, however be sure that in addition to the ATSC tuner and the NTSC tuner, that whatever set you get has a clear QAM tuner.

That will enable you to receive any digital cable channels that your cable passes though your system unencrytped.

Our local cable system carries all of the local stations digital signals, but you have to have clear QAM tuning to receive the signals.

Even better, but now getting harder to find is a TV that is Digital Cable Ready (DCR) and has a CableCARD slot for encrypted digital cable channels. IF you ever decide to get premium (encrypted) services, THEN you would just get a CableCARD from your local cable company. No need for a set top box!

To summarize, unless you are a fan of set top boxes from the cable company (I'm NOT), buy whatever HDTV suites your size and taste requirements, but be sure in has the ATSC tuner, NTSC tuner, and clear QAM tuner.

Even better is a DCR HDTV which will allow for receiving encrypted digital cable with the addition of a CableCARD from your cable provider.

Submitted by: Bruce R. of Indianapolis

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Answer:


Dear Brian,

Let’s review some basics display information:

1. A general rule for all types of displays: to match
the size of the display (measured diagonally) to the room so you do not have to sit too close or far-away to see the full picture in full detail. A general rule for comfortable viewing distance is about twice the diagonal screen size. For example, if your set has a 40-inch screen measured diagonally, you should sit at least 6 1/2 feet away from the display screen. You should measure your viewing distance to find the proper screen size for your bedroom and that will determine the type of flat-screen display that you will pick.

2. LCD Flat-Panel Displays
a. The Direct-view models flat-panel LCD screens currently max out at 46 inches. (If you need something bigger than 46 inches to hang on the wall you will have to look at plasma displays.)
b. Flat-panel models tend to be pricey as you move to larger screen size.
c. If you are looking for a 42-inch screen size where plasma displays screen size begins go for the plasma because in a Sound and Vision magazine face off, Plasma vs. LCD, the Plasma won.
d. If you are looking for 20 inch – 32 inch screen size, then LCD would be the choice of display to hang on the wall.

3. Plasma Displays
a. The display screen-size starts at 37-inches and max out at 65-inches.
b. Plasma won the face-off in Sound and Vision magazine’s Plasma vs. LCD
c. Prices are currently dropping on the 42-inch sets
i. Ex. Panasonic - 42" Plasma HDTV TH-42PX60U
($1,993.99) vs.
ii. Ex. Samsung - 40" Flat-Panel LCD HDTV LN-S4041D
($2,183.99)

4. Most of the flat-panel sets more than 27-inches have 16:9 wide-screens and are HDTV. EDTV is a marketing term for digital TVs that can show standard-definition video in progressive-scan format and accept high-definition signals but can't display full-resolution HDTV. The bottom-line: Get a HDTV.

5. Look for a set with a Cable-Card feature so that you can rent a cable card and not have a cable box to get HDTV from your cable company.

6. Both flat panel technologies can produce great picture only if you have the proper setup (This is true of all types of displays). The key to proper setup is proper calibration from a DVD Video Test disc (ex. Sound and Vision HOME THEATER TUNE-UP) or have your set professionally calibrated by a professional home theater installer.

Source: Sound and Vision Magazine
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com

Submitted by: Nick C. of San Francisco

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Answer:


Brian,

The best TV on the market is really only as good as the signal you provide to it. So, since you've already determined that you'll be using a cable signal, and it's not going to be the main set for family viewing, you can spend as much or as little as you want to get your wall-mounted TV.

Keep in mind also that these slim-stylish wonders aren't always the best when it comes to audio quality. If that's important to you, you might want to consider a small HTiB system for the bedroom.

Finally, check into the cost of having this professionally installed. Nothing takes the fun out of a new television or home theater purchase like having to conceal wires or patch "mistakes" in walls. Installers know all the right tricks, and will usually accomplish it in less time than it will usually take the average homeowner to do the clean-up.

Submitted by: Thomas P.

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Answer:


I recommend purchasing a HDTV, however one needs to do a little investigation first. Most all of the standard broadcast stations now also broadcast, over the air or sometimes referred to as terrestrial, in digital, for free. For example, one of our local stations is channel 10 and the HD channels show up as 10-1 and 10-2. The digital signals are broadcast in UHF where as stations numbered 2 through 12 are broadcast in VHF. UHF signals do not transmit as far as VHF and are more susceptible to interference from hills and buildings. I found the website http://www.antennaweb.org to be extremely helpful. You enter your address and it will provide you with a list of stations in your area, analog and digital. The site can also provide you with a map showing the compass headings to the transmitting towers for these stations. For digital stations it is important to get a good signal from your antenna, so I added a $25 amplifier in line with our antenna. We receive a number of stations that we did not know previously existed and we have been very pleased with the reception. We are fortunate in that most all of the local stations in our area are located on the same general area, thus there is no need for a rotor to turn the antenna in our attack. I recommend talking to local independent stores that sell TV’s and ask them how good the reception is in your area. I found that the sales people in the big chain stores assume that you have cable or satellite service. Most all of them didn’t even realize that one could receive these signals from for free with an antenna.

Submitted by: Roger P.

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Answer:


Actually, any new set with an ATSC tuner, will tune in all the basic and digital channels available on your respective cable system.
Also, any generally available OTA HD Channels that cable also carries may be received by the new set.

My Sharp 32” LCD, having the ATSC Tuner, does a great job directly connected to the cable feed, receiving HD, Digital, and Analog.
Downside, some of the channel numbers may not agree with the TV guide information.

Many do not realize that they do not need the cable box to receive these signals as long as the TV is capable, that is, has an ATSC tuner.

Submitted by: Art

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Answer:


I bought a LCD HDTV after reading that if you had a outside antenna you no doubt could pick up digital signals from your local stations. I have Direct TV, and the HD channels are scarce, except local. I receive the local channels fine, and as my set converts the old signal to progressive scan, and fills in the scan lines, the picture from the satellite is certainly improved. After fiddling with the "ratio" control I can fill the screen with minimal picture stretch. I would get one.

Submitted by: B. J. H.

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Answer:


For Brian, who wants to know about buying a TV for his bedroom, even though
he will only be watching standard (non-HD) cable there.

Quick answer: Hey Brian, do you want to return to the store to spend more to buy a converter box for HD?

The deadline although pushed back many times, is coming for the networks to switch broadcasting to an HD only signal. The FCC has mandated that all broadcast must be in digital starting on February 17, 2009. If you only buy "compatible" instead of "HD Ready" you will need the box. That is, unless you like spending a chunk of quan for a TV that you hope only lasts 5 years. Who would? I bought my "dinosaur" Sony 52" XBR in 1997, and despite Consumer Report's dire predictions, it is still projecting. They will pry it's remote from my hand when it dies man. When it dies..!

I would also recommend looking at "p" "progressive" instead of "i" or "interlace" sets for quality and ability to watch fast moving events without blurring.
check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television for a slew of useful info.

Help this hopes!

Submitted by: Taylor S.

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Answer:


Brian,

In my opinion, as a user of both HDTV and Standard Digital Cable TV, is that if you have standard digital cable playing on a HDTV the signal is worst than the standard digital TV signal.

I suggest you use one of your older TV's to watch standard digital TV and upgrade to HDTV when, supposedly in 2007, all the signals will be in HDTV.

Submitted by: George L. of Sarasota, Florida

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Answer:


Brian,

Shouldn't the variety of television technologies out there today tell you something? Sooner or later one of these technologies will come out on top, and when it does, prices will fall. Right now buyers of Plasma, LCD, HDTV, EDTV, and others are paying premium prices to satisfy their need for the latest in television technology. For me, I can wait. My conventional CRT televisions have served me well and will suit me fine until the dust settles and one technology emerges as the market leader. Who knows, it may not be any of the ones that are popular today. You may be stuck with an expensive piece of glass hanging on your walls. Remember Sony's Betamax?

Submitted by: Ben O. of Hazlet, New Jersey

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Answer:


A good quality plasma EDTV such as Panasonic can actually give you as good or better picture quality than a HDTV plasma when viewing poorer quality programming like standard cable. From what I understand this is due in part to EDTV requiring less downward processing of the cable signal than HDTV. Good quality EDTV's can also produce a brighter picture than lesser quality HDTV's in the same price range. There's loads of good info online addressing this if you search EDTV. I personally bought the TH-42PD60U after some research and watching it at the local showrooms. I actually preferred it too many HDTV displays with HD content!

Submitted by: Jim R.

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Answer:


If you're going to spend the money on a new LCD or plasma screen, don't waste it. Get the HD box.

That's like buying a Mercedes and deleting the air conditioning to save a few dollars. The reason you buy the Mercedes is to enjoy the quiet ride -- not to listen to wind noise. You pay the extra money (over a conventional tube set) for an LCD or plasma screen for the beautiful picture they provide. Limiting it to SD video is just wasting that extra money.

Besides, you've already had a taste of HD with your first set. When you look at SD on the new set, you'll be severely disappointed and left wondering why you wasted your money to watch distorted pictures (from the set stretching SD to fit 16x9) or black bars (SD on 16x9).

I don't like coughing up an extra $6 a month to my cable company any more than the next guy, but I never once thought about NOT doing it as I replaced my old TVs with HD screens (42- and 50-inch plasma and 30-inch CRT). And, I haven't regretted it for one minute.

Submitted by: Brian T.

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Answer:


I think that you should go ahead and buy an HDTV LCD or Plasma for your bedroom. If there is one thing that I know about all the TVs in our house, is that over the years, they tend to move from room to room. Today's bedroom TV might be in the den next year. The other reason to invest in HDTV even for a room where you are going to be watching mostly regular TV is that sooner or later (hopefully sooner), all TV programming is going to be HDTV. You don't want to invest in a TV that will be obsolete soon.

Submitted by: Jeff C.

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Answer:


Go get the Panasonic or Samsung EDTV and read this article:

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-highdefinition.html

You won't notice a difference between HDTV & EDTV.

Submitted by: Douglas O.

Post 18 of 183

HDTVs Usually Do Improve the NTSC Image

by middlebass - 9/8/06 2:18 AM In reply to: Other recommendations from our members by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator

Most HDTVs use software image sharpening to improve the standard NTSC TV image, so even if you don't receive HDTV signals, you will get a better image with a HDTV set. I know I do.

Post 19 of 183

HDTV

by saskiacentral - 9/8/06 3:27 AM In reply to: HDTVs Usually Do Improve the NTSC Image by middlebass

My Television (CRT) runs at a maximum of 1024x768 and I know that the common HDTV runs at 1366X768 so you will see a difference, when I run my TV through my computers monitor at 1280x1024 I see a big difference.

Im not going to buy a HDTV unless its one of the Mac cinema displays which actually has high resolutions, like their 30" which does 2560 x 1600

Post 20 of 183

Don't hold your breath

by Wolfpacker96 - 9/8/06 6:15 AM In reply to: HDTV by saskiacentral

You are going to see anything higher than 1080p anytime in the near future. There's nothing even in development. As far as why your computer screen looks better, I'll bet it's a whole lot smaller. Smaller screens almost always have a better picture for obvious reasons.

Post 21 of 183

HDTV

by saskiacentral - 9/13/06 2:27 AM In reply to: Don't hold your breath by Wolfpacker96

One of my friends has bought an Xbox360 and is next going to get a 27'' HDTV. Is it worth it?

Post 22 of 183

depends

by Wolfpacker96 - 9/13/06 6:03 AM In reply to: HDTV by saskiacentral

It depends on your room size and how much money he paid for the TV to determine "worth it". But the 360 is going to look spectacular on any HDTV.

Post 23 of 183

TV on PC

by Attitude2000 - 9/8/06 5:28 AM In reply to: HDTVs Usually Do Improve the NTSC Image by middlebass

This may not be a good comparison, but when I watch standard TV on my PC monitor with my TV Tuner Card, the picture looks all fuzzy.

Post 24 of 183

HDTV

by saskiacentral - 9/8/06 6:15 AM In reply to: TV on PC by Attitude2000

Do you use an aerial socket or a mini-aerial, by mini I mean one that comes with the PCTV package?

I have used two different PCTV devices; Freecom DV3 & Happauge WinTV GO2. The Freecom gave superior quality and had freeview addon.

You may also find it fuzzy because they broadcast TV for normal low-resolution Televisions, if they broadcasted it at 1280x1024, the quality would be superior.

I have seen many HDTV's playing normal low-res content and they are fuzzy. HDTV is merly a high-res monitor, nothing amazing, way overprices and hyped up.

Only HD screen I'd recommend is Mac's Cinema 30'' HD which has a very high resolution and its DVI socket will work with computers unlike most others.

What resolution is HD encoded at? 1366x768?

Post 25 of 183

There are a few HDTV formats

by kmchattie - 9/8/06 7:18 AM In reply to: HDTV by saskiacentral

There is 720i, 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Therefore a resolution of 1280x768 would cover you for all HDTV broadcasts.

I disagree with buying a set that has the cablecard. None of the cable systems have agreed on a standard and they often change their systems. So you could get stuck with a tv that needs an STB after 3 years no matter how careful you are.

You might as well accept the fact that you will need to either buy or rent an STB and just make room for it in your entertainment center along with your Media center PC and your reciever.

That way you can go buy a computer monitor that doesn't need all the extra useless features like a tuner or inputs like HDMI (useless draconian DRM managed standard that forces you to run your audio along with video and can be encrypted so you may have to pay for regular broadcasts. I beg all of you to not use hdmi and buy a set with DVI inputs instead), that is used how a monitor SHOULD be used: For high resoltion video.

You don't need Mac's over-priced puny 30" monitor to get high resolution HDTV video either.

Go for plasma. LCD has crappy contrast ratios (generally 1000:1 is the best you can hope for and 350:1 is the norm). Plasma has a contrast ratio of 10,000:1, which basically means your picture looks sharp and colorful versus LCDs washed out look.

You can buy plasma for less than LCD now anyway so it's really a no-brainer.

The only disadvantage to buying plasma over LCD is that the plasma screens tend to burn out after 10 years. I heard that they have that resolved though, but I am not sure.

I own several LCD monitors (a dell DLP projector and a hyundai 19" LCD monitor that sits right in front of me in my recliner). I have a friend that has a 42" plasma screen and it looks way better than my LCDs.

This was just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth and decide for yourself.

Post 26 of 183

re: TV on PC

by Attitude2000 - 9/8/06 7:43 AM In reply to: HDTV by saskiacentral

I can't remember what it is...it's ancient. In fact I think the resolution is 320 x 240. No HD.

Post 27 of 183

This statement is not true

by siclmn - 9/8/06 6:10 AM In reply to: HDTVs Usually Do Improve the NTSC Image by middlebass

HD channels will look better but all other channels will look worse on your new big screen TV. It's just the way it is. And it sucks. I still would rather watch my old sony tube TV up in my bedroom when I want all channels to be crystal clear.

Post 28 of 183

I agree...non-HD source poor on HDTV...

by baseman - 9/8/06 6:36 AM In reply to: This statement is not true by siclmn

I couldn't wait to get an HDTV. About 6 months ago I got into the game even though I knew there were trade-offs and that standard definition would not be as good as my old CRT-based TV. Well, it was far worse...to the point of being unwatchable to me. I returned it and purchased another brand. Same thing. I returned this one as well and went back to my old TV. Even though the prime time lineup and sports are broadcast in HD, as well as the movie channels, much of my viewing is still non-HD. The trade-off of dazzling HD sources wasn't worth the poor standard definition...for me. My old 27" gets a beautiful crisp clear picture all the time. PS: I kept the HD cablebox from my cable company and it works great with my old CRT Panasonic. Watched the US Open on the HD channel and it was eye-popping-though not HD.

Post 29 of 183

research

by Wolfpacker96 - 9/8/06 7:10 AM In reply to: I agree...non-HD source poor on HDTV... by baseman

Well, you should try doing some more research. Some HDTVs convert the analog better than others. One thing you may want to look at are the CRT tube HDTVs like the Sony. They weigh a ton, but they're analog display is comparable (maybe even better) than your old TV.

Post 30 of 183

Research, yes...money, no

by baseman - 9/8/06 12:21 PM In reply to: research by Wolfpacker96

I actually did quite a bit of research before the purchase. I didn't buy no-name brands either. One of them was a top name brand. As I said, I knew standard def wouldn't look as good but was surprised how bad it was. Afterwards, I did look into a CRT based widescreen HDTV, but PIP was a must and the CRT brands are few now and even Pansasonic dropped PIP this year on theirs. Like I said in my subject title, money is an object. Research may have found me an HDTV that got decent standard def, but it wouldn't be in my budget. I'll just wait a bit more until more broadcasting is in HD and/or "scalers" and the internal electronics are able to display it better. price will probably come down a bit too.

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