Home audio & video: tired of 1080P?
tired of 1080P?
by HTsales82 - 8/16/06 12:20 AMTrying to justify 1080p? It's worth it if you want a trophy or if you like bragging rights. other wise it is a scam. Blu-Ray probably will fail, but hd-dvd discs are made in 1080p, however; the movie industrie will NEVER give you enough detail to take advantage of that resolution, it would show too much make up and show too much of the cheap backgrounds. The only thing that it would actually be good for would be sports or things on the discovery channel which of course are on broadcast TV which won't be 1080p anytime soon if at all ever. Being that just about every signal coming in the TV has to be upconverted, 1080p tv's will be worse with just about every signal with more detail loss/blurr and more motion blurr. I am in HT sales and it pisses me off with every new 1080p set that comes out. There are a few people I work with that know what's up as well, but unfortunately most people think a bigger number is always better. Bottom line, if a company makes 2 tv's with everything exactly the same except 1 with 1080p and one with 720p, the 720p set will look better with almost every signal available today. If you can imagine 2 cars, one with a 7 cylindar engine (720p) and one with an 11 cylindar engine (1080p) then you test the cars, first by running only 7 cylindars on each (720p) then only running 5 cylindars at once (1080I) which car do you think would perform better. Do any other sales people out there feel like they have to work harder to defend their beliefs against popular belief than they do to just find the right tv for the customer? Personally I am getting incredibly fatigued having to constantly prove myself to every customer so they will believe I am telling them the truth as upposed to so many other people who lie just because it gets them more money, and after 3.5 yrs. full time in HT I can't help feeling like the end is near for my HT career and it's all because of this stupid 1080p that I have seen with my own eyes to look worse even though it is more expensive. I just wish there was someone else out there that gave a damn that would stand up and say enough is enough, profit isn't everything. Anyone else feel this way?
more to come possibly
by sirroundsound - 8/16/06 6:31 AM In reply to: tired of 1080P? by HTsales82with HDMI 1.3 coming, we could go to 1440p....
Not sure what your complaining about, if you are not interested in making a living in retail sales, then your right, now would be a good time to get out.
Selling a good 1080p set is the right thing to do.
There will always be something better coming down the road. Just look at surround systems. Way, way back there were only 4 channels. Then along came "pro logic" which quickly got better with each new model. Then digital pro logic, then dolby digital, DTS etc etc. Now we have 6.1, 7.1, 9.1 systems that allow us to sell more speakers. Not much material out there that is really in 7.1 surround.
Don't kid yourself, 1080p will get used. as we move towards ip based systems and delivery the choices will increase, and the fight for our entertainment dollars will really begin.
If you work in a shop that sells computers too, do you still sell people systems without dual core processors? Bad, bad, bad... can't operated windows vista without a dual core, so you would be forcing these people to upgrade sooner than they may have wanted to.
1080p
by HTsales82 - 8/16/06 12:33 PM In reply to: more to come possibly by sirroundsoundlet's bring out a 1080p capable broadcast system, then worry about the tv's, or how about if we get all digital first! All digital probably won't even happen before a 1080p bought today gets replaced
Great sets
by Pakman3000 - 8/16/06 7:48 AM In reply to: tired of 1080P? by HTsales82I think 1080p is a great way to future proof for the upcoming champion of the format wars. I don't know about you but we get excited at my store when unpackaging a new 1080p set. We sold 2 Sony XBR2s just by unveiling them. That's $4300 apiece just by getting our display model from the warehouse! I've only been in HT sales a short time but in my opinion the 1080p sets look better. Customers agree also without knowing that they are 1080p sets. Aside from that, 1080p isn't the problem. People come in and ask what the difference is between LCD and plasma ALL DAMN DAY! Not once does resolution come up unless they know about it or saw it on cnet! That's just what I've seen in my short tenure in HT sales.
no longer in retail, but..
by sirroundsound - 8/16/06 8:30 AM In reply to: Great sets by Pakman3000For those out there in the retail side of this business, when new product arrives, it should feel just like christmas (or insert other gift giving holiday here).
You get to play with new toys, this business is supposed to be FUN.
Yes you will forever have to deal with people asking what is the difference between A and B, that will never go away, there will always be things to compare one to another.
Just make sure you always, always, continue to educate yourselves and know the right answers. Play with the gear, get involved in hooking it all up so you understand everything about what you are selling. Then look and listen to lots of different combinations of gear. You will always find a favorite package, and will be able to sell tons of them because it's the set up you love.
Remember - have fun, it's just toys....
parts of a better picture
by HTsales82 - 8/16/06 1:22 PM In reply to: Great sets by Pakman3000you have to ask yourself what makes a better picture. Is it brightness? contrast ratio? number of colors? or detail? Everything except for detail have nothing to do with the resolution. In other words, if sony made a tv as good as their sxrd with a 720P resolution, it would look better on alost all signal. And in fact they did! When we brough out our new SXRD, nobody even knew it was new because it looked so much like the previous years ex model. However, when we hooked up an antenna a got a digital non-HD signal the difference was very apparent and we found that the SXRD looks terrible with a non HD signal. But thats why sony made their a10 model look worse, that way their 1080P model looks better.
Your tired of F.U.D.
by jcrobso - 8/16/06 11:22 AM In reply to: tired of 1080P? by HTsales82There is a lot FUD about 1080p. There have been postings, complaints that this or that set dosen't have "true" 1080p input, then you find out they are talking about 720p set.
Many times the term upconverting is incorectly used for changing 1080i to 1080p, when deinterlace is the correct term.
The problem is quality source material, it may look good at 720p, but not so good on a 1080i/p set. Just the way SD video may not look so good on a HD set.
I realy doubt that most people could see the difference between 720p and 1080i, let alone 1080i vrs 1080p.
When the State of the Union broadcast was on, I switched between CBS(1080i), ABC (720p), and NBC (1080i). My CRT-RP will has 720p and 1080i native display modes.
IT WAS VERY HARD TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE!! This was allmost a static image.
I'm sure you going nuts on this stuff. John
1080p
by HTsales82 - 8/16/06 12:36 PM In reply to: Your tired of F.U.D. by jcrobsoso I guess nobody else cares that the consumer will pay more money for a lower quality picture with a sources they use and the shows they watch, in other words who cares if they get screwed as long as specs get higher and higher. thats exactly the attitude I hate, that's the attitude that makes consumers distrust sales people. The right tv is was looks best with what people are watching not whatever is the newest.
you need to realize
by masterying01 - 8/16/06 2:14 PM In reply to: tired of 1080P? by HTsales82an average comsumer is not knowledgeable enough to make a decision on purchasing a tv if you just show him a tv and a price tag. he or she will need something to compare it with. and in order for companies to attract more customers towards their products, they will make the "numbers" on their products bigger and badder.
if you are in retail(rather comission or not), your job is to help that consumer find the right thing for their needs. it is not your job to argue with customers because they think the sony 50xbr1 looks better then the samsung HLS5086.
i agree that numbers arent everything. 1080p doesnt always mean the tv will look better. HD doesnt always mean the picture will look better (maxent and hp plasma's vs. panasonic's EDTV). a 11MP point and shoot camera doesnt mean the pictures will always be better then a 5MP SLR. but when customers come in thinking the higher number is always the better, it is not your job to argue with the customer...its your job to get them what they want...thats retail.
if a guy wearing a rolex with 3 kids and a wife asking about getting a tv for his boat....obviously i'm not going to bring him to our low end $1000 plasma's because its only for a boat that he'll be on once a year. pioneer would be my first choice..why? cause i make the most money on it, its much lighter then some other tvs which makes it much easier to hang (ever tried hanging the new 50 philips plasma with ambient light?) and it'll give you the best picture quality.
if you have a heart and argues with customers when they want to look at something that they dont need....get out of retail. after your 3.5 years experience...you should have realized that already.
missing some other points.
by sirroundsound - 8/16/06 8:22 PM In reply to: you need to realize by masterying01We may not have much, if any 1080p available right now.
There may seem to be very little coming, BUT that doesn't mean over the next few years we won't start to see more and more.
Plenty of threads right here about Xbox HD and Sony PS HD both outputting 1080p.
You can bet the "media center" guru's are all very excited about HDMI 1.3 and what doors it opens for them.
Last time I checked, people don't buy TV's every few years, once they have laid out the few thousand $'s it takes to get something decent today, they don't want to be coming back in a couple of years saying the set you sold me doesn't do this or that.
So I wouldn't be too quick to start slamming 1080p as something you don't need, maybe to save a few dollars go to a 720p set, but the retail customer should at least be aware of what they can have and why they might want it.
That's your job if your on the sales floor....
In my side of the business I can loose a very good client by not informing him of what his options are, and that means major dollars out the window.
Even if I don't think he is the client that wants an 8,000.00 remote, I still have to show him the top and work our way down. I would loose all credibility if after his system was installed, he went to another home and saw a very cool touch screen remote, and came back asking me why he didn't have one like that. At least if I show him the options, he cannot come back and complain, all he can do is say he changed his mind and he wants one of those too.
I prefer your approach...
by speleofool - 8/17/06 3:40 PM In reply to: missing some other points. by sirroundsoundGreat story Sirround!
One of my pet peeves with retail folk, frankly, is being led to the cheap stuff immediately. I probably don't look like I've got much money, but then I don't try to look like that. My daily uniform is shorts, a t-shirt and Teva sandals. I like to joke that the money I save on clothes lets me afford other stuff, but the truth is that I'm good with finances and I spend my money on the things that are truly important to me. Those are the things I don't want to go cheap on.
I can understand the "take the Rolex guy to the expensive stuff," perhaps, but too often I find myself on the other end of that equation as "Sandal Boy" visiting the cheap junk, and sometimes it takes a while to get the point across that I'm looking for something more durable or with better features that costs more. Worse, I've been flat-out ignored (presumably as someone who must be browsing) at places like Magnolia HT. That's poor form and likely to lose my business.
I'm also very much an examine-all-the-options-and-pick-the-best-ones type. I'm sure it's related to being an engineer (gotta have all that data!), but the bottom line is that I'm most comfortable with my decisions when I know not only what I'm buying, but also what I'm not buying because it exceeds my needs.
Most importantly to this story, I'm someone who has spent close to $40k on HT gear and who is patient enough to not buy 1080p, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray yet because I know what I want and it's not quite there yet. I'm *very much* a planner and appreciate knowing not only about the options available today, but what's coming around the corner. I have a great relationship with the sales person who sold me my stuff and he's got no problem telling me not to buy stuff in the store because he knows what I want and that I'll be back when it's ready.
Cheers!
Speleo.
Just good business...
by sirroundsound - 8/17/06 6:02 PM In reply to: I prefer your approach... by speleofoolWhen I was in retail I had a few customers like you, they learned quickly I knew what I was talking about, wasn't interested in BS, and would always listen to their needs, and direct them accordingly. They always came back to buy new things from ME.
It's all about the relationships you can make in this business. The dollars will take care of themselves.
Sick!
by mrobzo - 8/22/06 8:20 AM In reply to: you need to realize by masterying01IF consumer dollars mean nothing to you, YOU should get out of the business!
When I go to a sales person, I expect to be educated, not taken.
Good thing I don't know who you are or where you work cause I would have you canned in a heartbeat.
"When I go to a sales person, I expect to be educated"??????
by jcrobso - 8/22/06 12:57 PM In reply to: Sick! by mrobzoYes it would be nice if the sales person was knowledgeable but this is NOT the case in most BB stores, there are exceptions, ( the one your ripping on is one of them, read some of his other posts) but in general most just are not trained in what they sell.
Most custom installers have more time and knowledge but there is a price for everything.
When I go into a store I try to avoid the sales persons.
I know what I want, usualy know where to find it. If sales person realy wants to help I ask a very difficult question to stump them,,,,,if they are wise they will just go away,,, if they answer with some bull fearthers answer,,,,well then they are fair game. I just picture that some of the BBY and CC guyes are cringing now, but in my old age I just polity correct them,,, but 30~40 years ago,,Ahh oh well, have nice day. John
"When I go to a sales person, I expect to be educated"??????
by jcrobso - 8/22/06 1:42 PM In reply to: Sick! by mrobzoYes it would be nice if the sales person was knowledgeable but this is NOT the case in most BB stores, there are exceptions, ( the one your ripping on is one of them, read some of his other posts) but in general most just are not trained in what they sell.
Most custom installers have more time and knowledge but there is a price for everything.
When I go into a store I try to avoid the sales persons.
I know what I want, usualy know where to find it. If sales person realy wants to help I ask a very difficult question to stump them,,,,,if they are wise they will just go away,,, if they answer with some bull fearthers answer,,,,well then they are fair game. I just picture that some of the BBY and CC guyes are cringing now, but in my old age I just polity correct them,,, but 30~40 years ago,,Ahh oh well, have nice day. John
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