Community Newsletter: Q&A: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy?
- 8/10/06 5:55 PM
I think a lot of you are overthinking it
by PoupaKG - 8/11/06 1:25 PM In reply to: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
While it is important to be educated about the technology you're going to buy, it's also important to keep in mind that this is for a college student. It seems like the notbook industry is in a great state of flux right now--so many of the recommendations made will not really be pertinent in even a few weeks from now. With so many good quality, cheap, entry-level notebooks on the market right now, specifically like Toshiba and Gateway, it seems the best route would be to buy a cheaply priced, good quality brand notebook for the interim (typically between $400 and $600 depending on the spec's) and see if it suits you. If you need something more powerful with better graphics, then you can buy a new notebook. But if you like the cheaper notebook but want more hard drive space, ram, or a dvd burner, these are all fairly cheap after-market additions, typically cheaper than choosing a higher-level notebook when purchasing. Just my humble opinion. Obviously it depends on what you're going to be doing with it, just keep in mind that the notebook industry is changing very quickly and very extensively, so don't waste your money buying a top-of-the-line notebook right now that may half in price in a couple months. Good luck.
Things to think about
by patricktt2020 - 8/11/06 3:01 PM In reply to: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I'll be a senior at CMU and I'll tell you some of the things that I think are important to think about:
1. Built-in wireless card-many computers are being sold with this, it's not much more than buying an external one, and it won't break off.
2. Software: CMU offers many microsoft titles (Windows XP, Office -for windows and mac) for ~$15. Check to see if your school offers any as well.
3. Don't sacrifice a feature you really like or even much money to shave off a couple of ounces or inches. A 15" laptop is pretty comfortable to carry around, anything smaller isn't really worth the price / feature loss.
4. Check to see what modifications you can make after you buy it. Consider an external HD instead of paying the company to install a huge one. Same with memory (pretty easy to upgrade)
Lastly, consider a mac. The new macbook looks pretty sweet and if you get windows you can play any of your old games!
Not meaning to get into the same old boring, useless debate
by PoupaKG - 8/11/06 4:02 PM In reply to: Things to think about by patricktt2020I'm certainly not going to get into the age-old debate of Mac vs. PC because they both do more than any typical user needs, and are very efficient at doing it too. But I noticed that the new MacBooks are quite a bit more expensive than, for example, a Dell Inspiron E1405, with an Intel 1.8 GHz core duo processor, has a larger standard HD (120 GB), twice the RAM (1 GB Dual Channel) and a DVD burner at twice the speed of that offered in the MacBook (which starts at $1099 on the Mac website), all for under a grand (before taxes and shipping of course). So it seems more economical for a college student who is likely strapped for cash to a certain extent to lean towards the PC (and there are cheaper notebooks than Dell, I just used them for the ease of finding their prices, though any good quality brand could suffice). Don't get me wrong--I don't hate Mac's, I just don't know, for a college student, if it would be worth the extra price for fewer features given that there are alternatives with more features for less money. More importantly they could get the same features in a Mac on a PC for quite a bit less, which is more important. Though I won't count the new MacBook out--I agree, it looks quite snazzy.
A simple answer
by MChilds1342 - 8/11/06 4:37 PM In reply to: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Instead of listing all the options on the market today(which im sure you already knew about), this is a simple example. Bigger is better for some, small is better for others, i like to go in the middle. I just bought a Dell E1505:
Intel Core Duo
1GB mem
80GB hard drive
15" ultra sharp display
XP home
DVD Burner
Dell draft-n internal wireless (300mbps)
vista capable etc. etc.
all for only $730
then I picked up a mini wireless mouse and a carrying bag.
Im going to college myself and it works perfectly. not too big not too small, almost 4 hours of battery life, and light enough to comfortably carry around. Overall I love it and many other people do as well.
hope this helps
Don't forget refurbished. (plus more 'as a student' tips)
by Hodgelett - 8/11/06 5:01 PM In reply to: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I bought my laptop for uni (uk) while I was in a highschool in the States, and many of the things mentioned here follow:
- my American highschool insisted on Win XP Pro.
- Openoffice works fine, don't bother shelling out for MS Office unless you can persuade the parents to buy a 3 pc student one - meaning they get the other two licenses, but who's complaining?
- weight, hard-drives, battery life are of course important. You'll want to be using this thing on the move and for as long as possible.
However, something most people play down is the importance of RAM. Many pcs have at least a gig but the laptop is lagging behind. If you want to do anything such as photo editing or even use multiple programs at once such as your browser like firefox or opera and a music player you'll need RAM.
I heard someone advocate Tinys and Sonys. Sorry. Tiny went out of business it got so many complaints about its systems and a few people got Sonys at my highschool. They were giving them away as the screens stopped working, the batteries lasted 5min, or only worked when the laptop was held at a certain angle etc. They're also way over-priced. If they had them insured I guess this wouldn't have been a problem but that costs too.
Personally I bought a Toshiba. The school was selling virtually the same model - Tecra M2 for about $500 more. Why? Cos I got it refurbished. That is it went unsold for ages so another company bought all the unsold stock and sold it cheaper 'as second hand' although they're as good as new.
It's a good quality laptop, no bells and whistles, but it does have dvdrw, a 4-button touchpad, 3-4hr battery life and up to 2gb ram capability.
I now have an M3 because I managed to break it, through no fault of Toshiba, but my parents' home insrance covered it, even though I was at university. My dad insisted that they covered it when he took out the insurance and they agreed. This might be something you might want to look into if your parents are renewing their home insurance - plenty of accidents occur, if not theft.
You might like a portable hard drive if you do want mp3 storage though...you upgrade laptops but you'd keep the hard-drive for a long time. It'll keep your laptop working fast instead of clogging it up too. Just a thought.
Always (almost) buy the CHEAPEST ONE!
by johnbiest - 8/11/06 8:33 PM In reply to: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
With laptops, cheaper is smarter. Why? Well, even the cheap ones will do what you want. If you want to do more, like burn DVDs, you can always get external add-ons now - and keep them when you inevitably replace your computer in 2 or 3 years.
Laptops have very limited lives. Batteries wear out (and are way too expensive to replace), they get stolen (especially the fancy ones), the screens can go bad, and they simply become outdated. Buy one today for $400 (yes, a new one), and put away the other $600 for your next one.
Right now, I'm using a Dell with a Pentium 4 2.2 Mhz. It was top of the line when I bought it, and it's still fast enough, but the battery only lasts for 40 minutes or so, and the screen has a loose connection. Neither one is worth fixing, because that $400 laptop is already better.
Hope this helps. Good luck at college.
P.S. Buy a laptop lock.
D'Uh! macs are voted best choice by PC Magazine! go figure!
by zahadum - 8/11/06 10:40 PM In reply to: 8/11/06 Laptops: which one to buy? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
you are wasting your time & money if you don't get a mac ...
so says /PC MAGAZINE/ (not macuser magazine).
apple machines consistently win their annual awards.
the details are too long to present in a posting here ... but you can use the iPod as a measuring stick: apple makes the best gear in each category that it enters.
yes, you can do lots of rocket science to figure out why that's true (start with the articles in pc magazine 
...
but the big picture is that you can do MORE FOR LESS with a mac (which includes the ability to run windoze at the same time as os/x if your really want to).
cloin does have a good point about your buying decsion ... if you are happy to spend $1000 each year, then get an ebtry-level machine (like the apple macbook) ...
if you are willing to get the best in order to last all through college, then yeah, spend $3000 up front & get yourself a CORE2 Duo in a couple of months (that includes, apple as well).
either way, your best choice is a mac.
Mac vs. PC
by kwkid - 8/11/06 11:09 PM In reply to: D'Uh! macs are voted best choice by PC Magazine! go figure! by zahadumThis arguement has raged on for years. However the fact remains that Macs are less than 4% of the computing world. If it is truly as great as everyone says, why has it not been a force within the computer world since the late seventies? I'm sure that this will illicit tons of opinions, but no one will be able to justify 4%, except to themselves. The numbers just don't lie and the individuals who try and justify the numbers are just trying to justify why THEY bought the mac.
Is it a better computer? Yeah, I agree, it probably is. So what. The Beta VCR was better than VHS. Who won that war, VHS did. Is HD DVD better than BluRay - we don't know yet, but the "better" format may still not win this war. The fact remains that the "better" product may still not win due to many other factors. It is a matter of perception, marketability, and advertisement, and sadly, Apple is terrible at all of these. There is a reason that Apple has only 4% of the market and it has nothing to do with their computers. Would I buy an Apple, not on your life. A company that can't get out of its own way deosn't deserve my business or my money.
History kwkid
by ponce_1988 - 8/12/06 4:53 AM In reply to: Mac vs. PC by kwkidMan you really do not know anything about modern computing history do you? You do know that began life Windows as basically an MS DOS based version of the original Mac OS in the 80´s. I also bet you do not know about how Microsoft and Intel partenered up in what was known as Wintel, and so Intel-based computers all ran Windows. Do you know that Apple had bad leadership throughout most of the ´90s, until Steve Jobs returned and both MAC OSX and the iMac were launched? Tell me, do you know that almost every mac, be it laptop or desktop, and lots of Apple-developed software, have garnered the company lots of awards and recognition.
Now consider everything I just told you, specifically Wintel and Window´s true origins and then you have the answer as to why only 4% of the market share belongs to Apple. It can be summarised in a single word: Monopoly. I do not need to tell you who constitutes this monopoly, do I? I think that you are smart enoug to know. A monopoly has great market share, over 51%, meaning it can control prices and quality and can deny market share to emergin competitors, based on price (not quality), that explains why Macs are not cheap. Monopolies can form alliances and mergers, they can collute and effectively cause imperfect competition in the market, which is why not many PCs dominate the market. kwkid, I think you are smart enough to understand my argument here, seeing that you have commented on Apple´s small market share. They can´t expect to compete with MS on price and marketing, because MS is a giant firm, it is a monopoly. I think you are a little short sighted here, as you have failed to take that into account.
And no, I do not only own a Mac, I also have a PC and have began using Macs only recently. To my surprise, I have found them to be better machines than PCs.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, but
by PoupaKG - 8/12/06 8:37 AM In reply to: History kwkid by ponce_1988Okay, I'm not going to get into the whole debate of which is better--because now pretty much any notebook can do whatever the user wants it to do regardless of brand. I think a Mac would suit the student who posed the question just as well as a PC. But I believe the question comes down to how much is the student willing to spend on the same technology? It's very similar to, say, buying a Honda versus an Acura (or pick your make of choice). One is a very sensible, durable, extremely good and economical car, while the other is the same, but with more bells and whistles for those who have more money, but doesn't really do anything more than the Honda--has the same engine and same components as the Honda. Same is true for notebooks, namely PC's versus Mac's. Both do what any typical user wants them to do without a problem with the same hardware (more true now than before with the pairing of Mac and intel)--but the premium for Mac's is quite a bit more than that for a PC. Granted, it depends on the brand of PC, just as it does on a car. For example, I'd steer clear of getting an Avaratec notebook, instead of, say, a Dell or Toshiba--just like I'd sooner buy a Toyota than a Kia. But the result is the same--the notebook will do the same thing, so why not, at this point of the kid's life where money is quite a bit the issue (probably) with going off to college and all, and the fact that the notebook industry is changing so much and so quickly, get the more sensible and more economical notebook--the PC--instead of spending so much more money on the bells and whistles and getting the Mac when things will probably change so much in a couple months, he or she will have a bad case of buyers remorse?
On a separate note, I recently saw a news clip where Steve Jobs was plugging the new Mac desktop instead of buying a new comparably priced PC desktop (the designation of Mac vs. PC is now pretty much antiquated since the differences between the two are quickly diminising)--the specs were very similar and the Mac turned out to be $2300 and the PC (not sure what the brand was) was $3300. I believe the processor was a 2.8 GHz dual core, 1 GB DC ram, large HD, etc. I recently ordered a custom-built PC, with 2 gigs of low latency dual channel ram, AMD AM2 4800+ dual core CPU, large HD, good motherboard, etc for only $800 which, I'm going to go out on a limb here--would kill either of the computers Steve Jobs was talking about, PC or Mac (though I might be wrong since I've never used either he was talking about because they're fictional and would probably employ the new intel conroe core (or whatever it is called now))--so regardless of the brand, there's pretty much always a cheaper alternative, and it's usually ''PC'' components. Though I admit, when buying a notebook, this doesn't help since it's not practical to buy the components and build it yourself...
So until the student falls into a bit more money, I'd tell him or her to just get the PC, wait for the notebook industry to cool off (maybe half a year or so) and get a more expensive notebook with all the bells and whistles at a later time.
sigh.
by method961 - 5/14/08 12:51 AM In reply to: I'm not saying one is better than the other, but by PoupaKGI have been a Mac user my entire life, my family always had the new mac. i always thought, hey why do i have the computer that never works with anything? (games, software, internet) i decided to buy a pc, i bought a cyberpower laptop for $1400, at the time it was better by a lot than the $2500 macbook pro. i messed around with all kinds of stuff on the pc enjoying the freedom to do anything and there were a few things that didnt work out. i NEVER ONCE CRASHED. i thought that the OS worked great, all the programs worked all my games worked, there was like one window error that i saw a few times. i had heard about the mac OS and how amazing it is. I thought that because of all the hype about the mac OS i thought i should give it a try. i open my black macbook with 2.2 ghz and 4 gigs of ram and remember watching the video that said you can transfer everything from a mac to a pc with a usb cable. what they meant was that macs let that happen, even if the pc's had no way for that type of transfer to occur. that didnt work, i bought a hard drive and did it like that after over 4 hours of on the phone with mac to try and figure it out, i never thought to call pc because i needed mac to solve the problem, and they couldnt. the OS on the Mac (10.5.2) works great. i thought that there were all kinds of new things i could try out, but there werent. the "spaces" system simply dosent work. how can you assign something to a space and then open a window and move it from one space to another when that window can only be in the other space? the "show all windows" button is cool, and so is show the desktop, but all it helps with is a cool little animation of the windows that people think are cool and dosent actually help. "spotlight" is amazing. props to apple, thats works. ive had countless errors in MS Word 08 which is supposed to be the new and completely re-done version of the software, it crashes, recovers wrong, the cursor disapears, the spacing is screwed up constantly. should this software be FLAWLESS if all the freaking hype about macs is how good the OS is? the hardware is a joke, mac LIES on their website "the new macbook pro features the LATEST core 2 due processor" (2.4 ghz) oh but wait, intel seems to have made a 3.0 or higher core 2 due laptop chip............
all in all, the PC can do SO much that the mac cant, which the mac has some cool visual effects that make the windows shift which i guess makes people seem more organized or makes them think they can work better. but the PC can get almost any program, you can fool around with programs that mess with videos, music and games, which a mac can do as well, but for hundreds of dollars in software.
oh another thing, my computer was 1600 with another few for the ram which i bought myself, and the best macbook pro is over 2500... you get what? .2 ghz more of processing speed, a useless motherboard upgrade, and a graphics boost up to MINIMUM for most games and some shiny casing? whats that about???
im not mad, just disappointed that the mac dosent work like i thought it would.
Do I know?
by kwkid - 8/12/06 12:16 PM In reply to: History kwkid by ponce_1988I still have an 8 inch floppy with my first copy of VisiCalc that I used on my Apple Lisa. I suspect that is all I have to say.
Yeah, Apple chose their own way
by NM_Bill - 8/12/06 9:40 AM In reply to: Mac vs. PC by kwkidand anyone may think that as stupid. Sure, I am prone towards Mac and have suffered along the way with some of their poor decisions. Their way has tight standards for developers and that surely puts many developers off relative to writing for a tiny segment of the market.
Apple has been and is (though not always consistent) the marvelous innovator. They are much more elegant. I won't deny any market history. Stupid when they had the Pepsi guy at the helm and then clueless Gil Amelio needed a cash infusion and ridiculously gave Billy Gates permission to emulate Apple's software in return for something like a 24 million dollar loan. That took MS out of the dark ages. Remember having to set up functions for F8, F9, F10 etc? Dark ages MS DOS, what a blessing?
The two Steves had asked nicely to use what Xerox Palo Alto Research Center couldn't imagine having any practical use for. Gads, how about user friendly interface? That said, Apple like MS continue to act like despots to their own precious customers. Pick your despot.
Billy Gates daddy did a nice job teaching him business fundamentals. He ruthlessly applied his ''in'' well as a monopolist. Now all is forgiven for the ''dark side'' as he realized he couldn't possibly even start to spend what he accumulated. Compared to his far overseas grants to keep starving kids alive to only breed more underclass masses, I'd rather see more applied where charity starts (at home.)
PeeCee guys do sometimes evolve to learn much about coping with generic computers. Fine, they are worthy of their pride. On the other hand I want a fine tech device as my tool. I don't choose to know how to repair every assembly of my car.
I'll hang with the innovator of elegance well integrated - particularly with next Springs 10.5 Leopard. Let anyone choose in regards to the mass market as they may. Underdog sentiment or whatever, I prefer mine. If the maybe 2.5% of the market is insignificant, why the amount of respect Apple does get? Figures don't lie, but liers can figure.
I see the near future as convergence, with differences becoming blurred. With 10.5 the beta Boot Camp freebie will be native. Viva for dual platform being enhanced by Apple. Not many others doing that, are there? Small market share yes, but many will consider becoming crossovers. Their choice where they see the virtue. As a sign off addendum, the price differential always deserves looking at. Equipped rather than, say Dell base, differential may disappear or turn out the other way around.
Don't want to flame anyone, just encourage open minds. Open minds are the opposite of open mouths which must be shut in order to receive information.
Good computing to all...
Mac vs. PC
by kwkid - 8/12/06 12:20 PM In reply to: Yeah, Apple chose their own way by NM_BillPerfect post! Well said and well receivied.
OK here goes.
by RKBELL2005 - 3/31/07 10:40 AM In reply to: Yeah, Apple chose their own way by NM_BillYou make great points in your post about Jobs and Gates. (And in a roundabout way Tandy). I am going jump head first into this question and will probably get all sorts of answers, many of which will not be pertinent to the question asked and I'll ignor those.
My question.
Given today's PC whether it be an Apple or any other Running Windows how do I justify paying between $800.00 and $1000.00 more for a PC with the Apple Logo on it or the logo that says it is designed for Windows?
Some will say MAC is not a PC. IT IS. A Personal Computer is a Personal computer.
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