Community weekly poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid car?
- 5/16/05 1:58 PM
Yes..1 Prius Thanks
by frontier - 5/17/05 9:12 PM In reply to: Would you consider buying a hybrid car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I am saving for my Prius now. It looks like I will buy a 2nd hand one as there is a long waiting list in Australia but the resale price is not as strong as in the US.
I like the idea, shape, dash and other features including environmental and savings.
All things need to be considered
by bonafide49 - 5/17/05 10:02 PM In reply to: Yes..1 Prius Thanks by frontierThe hybrid vehicle technology is in it's infancy. It's still limited in capability and expensive. Over time the prices will drop, the technology will get better, just like it has with computers. There is also other new technology being developed. Better batteries, even nuclear powered batteries which run for 10 years are being tested now. That may be too hazzardous for commercial use though as well as expensive so they may only be used in spacecraft in the future.
Electric cars are the only viable option. How they are powered will be the biggest problem to overcome. Keep in mind that many electric generation plants are fueled with petroleum fuels or natural gas. Both will gradually become more scarce and in higher demand so the price for all petroleum fuels will eventually go through the roof.
So electricity production needs to be ramped up to cover the future use, much of which will go towards running our vehicles. Dams provide a good source but there are few places left where that is a viable option. Solar power is still too expensive to be harnessed in a practical manner that would provide significant amounts of power. Wind powered generators are not reliable enough to be depended on (if the wind stops blowing, the lights may go out).
Nuclear power plants may be the only real option that will generate the kind of power that would be needed. We are dismantling nuclear warheads and that fuel could and has been used for that purpose. The nuclear option has it's problems. Waste materials and spent fuel rods need to be stored long term until they are safe (hundreds of years). But who knows, within a few years that problem may be overcome as well. We have the technology now to build safe nuclear plants. The cost to build them has been the biggest problem, but with the increase in the cost of oil, it is once again becoming an option.
So you see there are many problems which need to be overcome. We will eventually be forced to conserve, give up our gas guzzlers and use alternatives. Mass transit may make a huge come back. The worst thing we can do is to do nothing. Steps to ensure our future need to start now.
When petroleum is 20 to 30 dollars a gallon, we may be doing a lot of walking. Perhaps that will help reduce the problem of obesity in this country. Heating and air conditioning of our homes and businesses will become prohibitively expensive.
One last thought to ponder is the fact that as petroleum prices climb, so does the price of everything else. It costs more to make that TV, car, house, new road, growing food, transporting food to places where we can buy it, everything will go up in price. It's already started to happen. Oil fuels the world, our economy and everything else. We need to start changing that dependency and we need to start very soon.
Never
by mattkenseth17 - 5/17/05 9:49 PM In reply to: Would you consider buying a hybrid car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I will never buy a hybrid car. There is too much hype over something that supposedly helps the environment because of it's low emissions. Well, emissions aside, the hybrid is the worst idea I have ever heard. The production of the battery creates more environmental damage than the lowered emissions can help to fix. Unles there are smelting techniques I am unaware of, there is no way to smelt a half ton of metal (the weight of the battery) without causing environmental damage.
110 lbs is not ''half a ton"
by albizzia - 5/17/05 11:02 PM In reply to: Never by mattkenseth17Half ton battery???? NOT
The older 2001-2003 Prius has a battery weighing 110 pounds. Tne newer models slightly less.
Ford Escape hybrid slightly more.
And the emmissions are next to nothing. Only pure electrics are marginally cleaner - and some of them might have nearly a half ton of batteries!
My mistake
by mattkenseth17 - 5/18/05 6:05 PM In reply to: 110 lbs is not ''half a ton" by albizziaI will admit that I did not do further research before posting to the thread. But I stand by my statement that smelting the metal for the batteries, no matter the weight, causes pollution.
hybrid cars
by jstil - 5/18/05 2:24 AM In reply to: Never by mattkenseth17why all this hype over hybrid cars, we are forced by the media nad government that we are polluting the enviroment with the cars and trucks we have based on junk science. Show scientific proof that the ozone layer is depleted. there is proof that the big scare over freon a few years back that it would harm the ozone, but it never gets there, it disipates as soon as it hits the atmosphere. The EPA has WAY too much power and is trying to get all of us driving hybrid cars while they are chauffered around in ford excursions and suburbans. Ditch the hybrids and bring back the real cars of the fifties!
hybrid cars
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Good used hybrid car...
by PeterHeilemann - 5/18/05 3:17 AM In reply to: Would you consider buying a hybrid car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I am waiting for the hybrid cars to 'shake down' their newness and get settled into what really works. Then I might buy a used car. I NEVER buy a new car because the depreciation the first year or so is so high. With today’s excellent maintenance records, I can ‘risk’ buying a car with 35K -50K miles on it and consider it ‘new’.
Used hybrids available
by albizzia - 5/18/05 1:45 PM In reply to: Good used hybrid car... by PeterHeilemannBuying a used car can be an economical way to go.
Since hybrids have been available in North America since 2000, there are used hybrids on the market. However, demand has been high enough to keep the price of used hybrids fairly high, with little depreciation.
For example, 2003 Prius that was $20k new, now sells used for about $18k. 2004 Prius is selling for near new prices.
A GENDER QUESTION -purely in the technical sense
by Harm - 5/18/05 3:38 AM In reply to: Would you consider buying a hybrid car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The justification for my comments are 3 Masters, one each in Industrial Engineering, Industrial Management and Marketing, and therefore:
without any intention whatever to insult a trans-sexual person, a Hybrid Car is exactly that, i.e. neither man nor woman. No argument brought forward as to savings in fuel and (for me very important) reduction in unwanted emission can convince me here. The financial savings are eaten up by the higher cost; the reduction in emission is a pipe-dream, as no-one will really care about it. The Hybrid Car is the same as the 2 1/2G Mobile Phone ---- it is, and will remain a Sales-Gag, nothing more. Therefore I was very surprised about the Polling-Result. People simply cannot be honest, or think about a matter without detachement.
I commend any Car-Manufacturer who brings cars to the market with continously drastically reduced consumption and (also, but not only through that) reduced emission. BUT this only makes sense if the Car-Owner has no choice but to go along with the Tech-specs. and there, especially in the USA, the Hybrid is a Status Symbol, nothing more.
The TOP 5 of the Car-Producers should use their Finances to reject the Combustion-Engine-Platform and be brave enough to go DIRECTLY to new concepts like FUELCELLS or whatever. The Developement- and Marketing-Costs of the Hybrids would have immensely contributed to new concepts. This extremley high amount is now wasted and the propagators of the Hybrids will in the end pay the price --- the consumers will very quickly see through this scam; --- Hopefully.
Best regards,
Harmgerd
Engines have gender?
by albizzia - 6/19/05 9:15 PM In reply to: A GENDER QUESTION -purely in the technical sense by HarmI've never been able to determine the "gender" of mechanical devices - is a gas engine male? An electric motor is rounded, but has a shaft, does that make it male or female?
Conclusion: The "trans-gender" argument is nonsense.
Even more odd is the argument that "Hybrids are too expensive, so we should go directly to FUEL CELLS!" Well, it turns out that currently, a fuel cell stack powerful enough for automotive use costs 25 times as much as a internal combustion engine - and that is after years of research to reduce the price. Further, the PEM type fuel cell currently lasts only a few thousand hours.
So for improved fuel economy and reduced emissions, the choices are between:
Hybrid cars costing $20,000 to $40,000 new, available now, with normal maintenance and a 100,000 mile warranty. or
Fuel Cell Cars costing over $140,000 new, not yet available, and needing repair or replacement of the fuel cell stack every 50,000 miles. There is also the yet unsolved problems of storing enough hydrogen for a reasonable range, and the high cost of hydrogen fuel. or
Electric cars. Those with lead acid batteries are only slightly more expensive than other cars, but have poor performance and range. NiMH batteries improve range and are durable, but more expensive. Lithium batteries have the range and performance desired, but are currently way too expensive.
Conclusion: Fuel cells are nowhere near ready for prime time. Electrics are almost but not yet ready. Don't feel too bad, maybe someday in the distant future the problems with fuel cells will be solved. But we need a solution now, we can't wait for a possible fuel cell breakthrough that might not happen. The solution NOW is hybrids.
Oh, by the way... if fuel cell cars ever do become economically viable, they will be using a lot of technology developed for hybrids, including electric motors, controllers, regenerative braking, and batteries.
Buy a Hybrid car? NO!
by Starman35 - 5/18/05 5:10 AM In reply to: Would you consider buying a hybrid car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I wouldn't get a hybrid car, because they're too expensive to recoup more than a small fraction of the extra cost in fuel savings. Further, they're a technological dead-end, as fuel cell technology is just a couple of years away. A fuel-cell car, on the other hand, if it is not prohibitively expensive, seems to me to be the best way to get a maximum performing, minimally polluting vehicle, provided it can run on a variety of fuels, & not just hydrogen. Hydrogen is great from a pollution standard, but building the required infrastructure will take decades to accomplish without major support from the Federal Government. Suppport, by the way, that doesn't seem likely to materialize in the current political climate.
Agreed on not buying a Hybrid Car - but,
by lookingonline64 - 5/18/05 4:59 PM In reply to: Buy a Hybrid car? NO! by Starman35I agree concerning the technology of they hybrid car... also the dependance on foreign oil etc. etc. Different technology is probably needed.
The problem is unfortunatly much more complex than just a Hybrid Car can fix.
I disagree concerning the political climate. The political climate is not going to matter. What matters is the profits of the big oil companies... notice that they are doing very well. They are posting profits well above what they have in the past.
Whether we like it or not, what modivates companies to develop something is some type of demand or profits. One demand could be a major war... much more major than the ones we have now.... I am going to assume that no one on this form wants another war of the caliber that we have had in the past (WWI, WWII). So that means that we have to demand as consumers. Consumers as a whole are modivated by products, cost etc. etc.
Let's reveiw some things in the past:
Remember the great "enery crisis" in the past (1970s)... In my option it was manufactured.
Remember "Gasahol" which was made from Corn. Remember some of the signs that were put out when people realize that "Gasahol" did not work in their cars as well as they liked.
Remember the recommended car that Al Gore wanted to see us in and remember the frequancy that we would have to buy it (every 3 - 5 years)
Many of you on this form may not remember those things because you may not have been alive. Some of you may have forgotten. But I bet that we can all agree or at least most of us can agree that we have a system that will reward indiviual effort in the US. We also have a system that will move if enough of us write and request of our lawmakers.
Remember, Car companies, oil/energy companies are very powerful organizations. This is more that case now, because of the amount of consolidation, and diversification. Each one of the major energy companies is now developing divisions that are looking at other forms of energy... (very slowly I might add)... The bottom line is profits. If they can make money selling gasoline. They will sell gasoline...
Solutions will take time... unless there is a major crisis
Hybrid SUV
by Professor Curt - 5/18/05 5:19 AM In reply to: Would you consider buying a hybrid car? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I'll buy a hybrid when they make one that can pull my 5000lb Travel Trailer over the Allegheny Mountains without straining it to the limits. I'm not aware of a hybrid with the horsepower or towing capacity of a good old-fashion big-bore V-8.
Not yet, but...
by albizzia - 6/19/05 9:44 PM In reply to: Hybrid SUV by Professor CurtThe Lexus RX 400h has a towing capacity of 1,500 lbs, the Ford Escape hybrid and Toyota Highlander hybrid are similar. So, currently there are no hybrids designed to tow a 5,000 lb travel trailer. You've got to admit that there are darn few people that have to tow a travel trailer that big! (fuel bill must be horrid...)
However, hybrid technology is scalable, and it is possible to make a hybrid with those capabilities. General Electric is testing a railroad locomotive with a diesel electric hybrid drive and battery pack to take advantage of regenerative braking. It will be available in 2006.
If a hybrid locomotive can tow a hundred boxcars weighing over 50 tons each, well, your dinky little travel trailer would be no sweat.
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