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Community weekly poll: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet
- 3/30/06 11:07 AM
Stupid you
by - 4/1/06 4:21 AM In reply to: stupid law by spicetraderAccessing somebody else's private network is the computer equivalent to Breaking And Entering. Any law against it is certainly not stupid.
Yes, Hot spots are designed for their partons to us them.
by how - 3/31/06 4:16 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
Flying J, Starbucks, McDonnalds...etc. What a convenience!!
Thank you guys.
H-
Exactly, even if it was spelled wrong.
by rgruenhaus - 4/1/06 11:09 PM In reply to: Yes, Hot spots are designed for their partons to us them. by howHotspots like Panelas or Barnes and Nobles and Books a million are someone elses wireless internet and are for the patrons to use.
Rob
Yes, but only patrons
by dddiam - 4/3/06 9:00 PM In reply to: Yes, Hot spots are designed for their partons to us them. by howStarbucks offers free service to patrons sitting in their coffee shop. But if you are in one of the residences in the mile radius that they service, they rightfully expect you to pay a fee for using their wireless. This offsets their costs for providing the service.
Sometimes when on the road
by Highwire - 3/31/06 4:23 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
WiFi hotspots are still few, and unless you are able to plan ahead, you cannot access the 'net to find the next hotspot. So, in my travels with my RV I do look for and sometimes find an open connection to do mail.
Highwire
Only when travelling, but think about it..
by kgilbert - 3/31/06 4:47 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
Once, on a trip to Montreal, I had the pleasure of staying in an apartment that was upstairs from a cafe that had free wifi. The connection from the apartment was great and I used it daily. Oh, I did buy SOME coffee from the cafe.
The security issues should be minor, especially if you use encryption for sensitive information like banking and credit card transactions. It would just look like so much gobbledegook to anyone tapping in.
Finally, there is a movement of people who support the notion of everyone keeping their wireless networks OPEN so that everyone can get free wifi just about anywhere. Sounds like it just mght work in some cities.
'Evil Twin' issue.
by R. Proffitt - 3/31/06 4:53 AM
In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5630181-1.html is CNET's article about the Evil Twin issue.
-> With ready to boot CD's you can erect your own evil twin in minutes if you have the right hardware.
As such, I would only use wifi besides my own network if I am armed to the teeth and will never use a credit card or other financial transaction.
But since it's great to get web information on the road, at the pub I'll use it but always be on the defensive.
Bob
Occasionally, but not without owner's permission.
by SpamFighter - 3/31/06 5:07 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
We have some good friends that live quite some distance away, so occasionally when we visit, we spend the weekend at their house or they come & spend weekend at ours. When I'm their, I bring a portable computer with a wireless adapter to connect to the internet. Actually, I bought their wireless equipment & helped them set up the network, so I can sit in the living room with everyone else (their computer is in a back room) and download digital photos to their computer & upload some of theirs to mine - neat way to swap photos, isn't it?
I also use a wireless connection to connect to a computer at my Mother-in-law's house for similar purpose, but they have no internet access. I just share files & maintain the computer, and help her to work with the digital photos from the new digital camera we gave her for Christmas. She, too keeps the computer hidden away in a back bedroom. I also print files the the printer there, too, from my computer, via wireless conection and ad-hoc network.
As for using someone else's wireless network without their knowledge - well, I'm always in rural areas - no one else has a network!
Unsecured Is an INVITATION
by Dr. Planarian - 3/31/06 5:17 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
Anyone who runs a wireless network unsecured is inviting you to share it. They might not KNOW they've invited you, and they might not want you to accept their kind invitation, but nevertheless...
It is NOT illegal to get online through someone else's wireless network; if it were, all those municipal wireless networks and public wireless networks in hotels etc. would be illegal to use.
It is SO easy to secure a wireless network, at least with WEP but WPA is really not that much of a trick, that there's really no excuse not to unless you really don't WANT to, or you're too inexcusably careless and ignorant for me to care what you think.
But one warning: If you DO use someone else's unsecured network you'd better have a software firewall like Zone Alarm installed, or you're right out there for them to see.
RE:Unsecured Is an INVITATION
by stevens_jeff - 4/1/06 7:09 AM In reply to: Unsecured Is an INVITATION by Dr. Planarianthis is not directed toward anyone in particular, so please dont take it personally.
This thread just got me thinking. I leave my door unlocked. It was an accident. I forgot. whatever.
You somehow notice it. Okay you know where Im going with this. You going to walk on it and help yourself to a sandwich, and maybe a beer? Is that okay?
That shmo who lives next door is most likely paying for his wireless. And you hop on. for free. what the hell. he dont know. he is an idiot. but that does not make it right.
This whole thread just reminds me how easy we rationalize what we do.
Downloading music from limewire, downloading Sopranos from a torrent site. Hopin on to someone elses Wifi.
Its all different but its all the same really.
Im rambling. sorry. I will go now.
Wireless what? Ok, sounds like you have been bitten!
by colin j moodie - 4/1/06 2:27 PM In reply to: RE:Unsecured Is an INVITATION by stevens_jeffDon't sit and complain, do something about it!
I don't want to stir things up and I will never condone stealing, but.....
1) Don't leave your door open!
Forgot? That's your own stupid fault! There is always some one that will take advantage!
2) Let's keep this real, got the latest technology?
Learn how to use it! Can't be bothered?
That's your own fault!
Breaking and entering law!
The criminal act of entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking and entering alone is probably at least illegal trespass, which is a misdemeanor crime.
Should we all wonder about what is right? or what is just plain ignorannce?
My comments are not directed at any individual, and are meant to express my own feelings about this topic.
Kindest Regards To All
It depends on the terms of service
by dddiam - 4/3/06 9:08 PM In reply to: Unsecured Is an INVITATION by Dr. PlanarianUsing a public hotspot, such as in a municipal park, is free and legal because it was created to be a free service, and is licensed as such.
Tapping into a neighbor's LAN, via wireless, is as much an intrusion as walking into your neighbor's house because he is not home and he forgot to lock the door. Tell the judge that your neighbor invited you in by forgetting to lock his door!
Using your neighbor's network to access the internet is highly illegal, because the cable company's terms of service specify that it for use by that household only. It is like tapping into someone's phone line in order to make a long distance call.
Remember the Spirit of Geekdom
by kcoriginal - 3/31/06 5:30 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
I am an IT guy, so I have more gear than most built up at home, but I offer up to 25% of my bandwidth to whoever needs it.
I've been a homeless college student, living in a van, for about a year throughout 2004. Lemme tell you, to a geek without a home for DSL, open wireless kept me sane and helped me roll through my hard times, determined to stay in school so I could get my IT job.
Yes, I could have done illegal things with my pirated internet. I simply didn't. The person driving their car down the street could swerve into that pedestrian for sick fun, but they, 99.9999% of the time, don't.
I also could have run cracks on the WEP keys at the time, but I actually NEVER bothered to. There were enough freebies that I was able to sit in my van playing FPS and strategy games late at night. I was able to Google my brain out on whatever subject I was concentrating on at the time; and I thank those (mostly uneducated and mentally lazy people) who gave me that opportunity.
I was alos responsible enough to only download images of Linux OS CD's late at night, while the connection was idle. Otherwise, they might decide to secure it to stop that stranger from interferring with their productivity. Mostly, I used business Acess Points, but more than one apartment complex had an open connection.
I know that criminal mischief is a potential problem. It always is. The advent of Wireless did not spawn criminal mischief. And it won't be the last thing abused and/or exploited for malice. It would be easy for manufacturers to make wireless routers where the wireless can be left open, but the route to non-you would be directly to the gateway, as I have done at home today.
Ideally, if all machines could be positively identified, allowing some of your AP bandwidth to be used by the kid walking down the street who'd rather surf his little PDA than kick pebbles, would not be such a bad idea.
I would love to see a network of folks who sign up for a free certificate of their ID on a central website. This ID, in turn, could be used as a "Library Card" of sorts, for any Access Points configured to use it. People could allow, say 10% of their bandwidth, just enough to allow friendly, neighborly access, to anyone who authenticated their ID for criminal discouragement purposes.
Any body wanna roll that out? I'm a networking guy and a fairly noob programmer... I can't do it myself!
Two schools of thought
by Knowledgeable Tech - 3/31/06 5:32 AM In reply to: Using someone else's wireless network to access the Internet by Marc Bennett
Some people deploy their wireless networks to provide acess to other people. Some want a private wireless network and implement security. If the segment is open, come on in!
As long as I'm not hurting anyone...
by ryuko098 - 4/3/06 1:02 PM In reply to: Two schools of thought by Knowledgeable TechIn this day of high-speed cable and (not-quite-so) high speed DSL, it generally wont hurt if someone piggy-backs a little bandwidth. Most people are fairly honest, and the worst thing they'd do is hog your bandwidth for everquest or Linux images 
So it's illegal -- so is speeding. But if the cops aren't out, we all do it! Just be smart, be courteous, and don't hurt anyone!
On the flip side, it is up to everyone to learn to be as secure with their digital information as they are locking their front door when they leave the house!
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