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Computer newbies: To build or not to build? That is the ???
Back it up.
by pslatin - 3/29/06 8:26 AM In reply to: Reasons to build! by Jelly BabyIts seems to me that the issue you speak of is the specifications on the computers you've purchased not whether it is a Home BTO. I agree with you in that pretty much anything will outrun a Dell. If you were to compare the computer industry to the car industry you would find that dells are much like the Pinto of industry. They do the trick but I wouldn't expect them to last. Dells prices will go up as their profits go down. The Cost of goods will go up and performance will go down. Having that out of the way I recommend that you call lenovo or a lenovo reseller and have them quote you a high end computer. The upfront cost is more but the total cost of ownership goes down because the technology will not be antiquated so quickly. Then compare performance. I recently purchase an Acer Intel duo-core maxed out on specifications and did it under $1500. You'd be hard pressed to find any home built to order computer that could top it. You would find similar success through out other brands too. I have a three year warrantee on my notebook and 8x7x365 technical support from PC Connection which came free with purchase. The facts speak for themselves. Good luck!
RMH
building and searching for drivers
by HKatzman - 3/24/06 5:57 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbI have built a number of computers over the years and the building of a computer is the easy part...
The hard part is keeping the computer up-to-date with updated drivers. The usual inexpensive off-the-shelf parts often have no traceable company names and the search on the internet for websites for drivers takes alot of time and persistance. Although HP, Dell, Gateway or whoever use these same parts, they do the work and maintain the updated drivers for you.
Buying from someone who builds it for you is the worst of all. Here you do not know the specific parts used and you do not have the security of a name company standing behind what's inside.
My recommendation is that you need a strong name behind your computer. Either a major computer company's name on the box or each and every internal part needs a strong name. The money you save is lost in time searching for drivers and putting up with the aggravation of many suppliers all blaming the other for problems that may happen at some future time.
Google to the rescue!
by pearl298 - 3/24/06 6:20 AM In reply to: building and searching for drivers by HKatzmanIf you take the FCC (or other) certification number and do a Google search you very quickly find the manufacturer and from that any updated drivers, parts or whatever!
I have used this method with model numbers, CE and UL certification numbers as well. Just about anything that is unique to the part will serve to find info on it.
Include newsgroups in your search - SOMEONE has posted something about the thing whatever it is!
Re: building and searching for drivers
by slim-1 - 3/24/06 7:26 AM In reply to: building and searching for drivers by HKatzmanYou have it backwards. Major PC brands don't use the same parts. Because of this they don't give you specs on the unit's hardware.
The local shop should give you a complete spec list and the original hardware driver CD's.
If you built it yourself, then you will know you have the original hardware drivers. You will need to go to the web sites to get the current ones.
You would need to go to the major brands web site as well. however they will have in most cases every driver for what ever hardware they ever put in that model.
Stop the Scam. Build your own. Stop buying Yugo PC's that use the cheapest hardware they can make a deal on this week.
Say no to Dell, Gateway, HP, Compaq, IBM, etc...
2nd PC- build it. You build for quality, not saving $$$
by adkmom - 3/24/06 6:24 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbBuilding PC's is usually not going to cost less than buying- but you end up with a nicer overall unit.
It's sort of like having a small garden- cheaper? Not likely: after you figure in time, work, plants/seeds, fertilizer, water, etc... Better veggies? You bet!
Off-the-shelf is fine for the 1st one, useage as described.
Be careful on "basic" computers.
by scottwilkins - 3/24/06 6:34 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbFirst, be very careful on what you think is the need for a "basic" computer. There really is no such thing as "basic" anymore when it comes to computers. Especially when you put the words "gaming" and "online" in the context. Basic computers will all to often fail to fullfill their need when used for any length of time in this capacity. Especially for kids. Some things I would NOT skimp on is 1. memory, 2. hard drive, 3. video. You might be able to get away with less power in the CPU and less robust motherboard, but get the most you can get in those 3. You'll need all the stuff like anti-virus, anti-spam (use Yahoo, don't install software for this solution.), and other protections all PCs need. This is solved by memory. Get lots of memory. 1 gig at least. 2 gig is the sweet spot today. More than 2 gig currently can have problems.
Now, as far as build or buy. Building you can get more for you $$$$ on the above scenario, but risk many problems too. It all depends on your state of mind on this project. Buying a simple Dell or HP can be easy too, but you may not be able to get what you need. Like for instance, lower end Dell's and HP's often do not have graphics card slots. Which is one of the big no-no's for a kid's computer. Make sure you have an AGP or PCI-e slot on any off-the-shelf system you buy. Some can be had cheaply with this option. Also, don't buy memory from the OEM, that's where they make their money. Get lowest memory from them, then upgrade. Usually at 1/2 the costs if done this way. Um, don't get Gateway. Their cheaper machines a really not any better than a "white box" or one you can build yourself. I know, I've seen them. It's bad.
I love building personally, but there can be problems that are difficult to overcome. Usually these problems resolve by spending more money, which can be avoided with off-the-shelf PCs. It's all give and take.
Networking? Wired. Much much cheaper, less problems, easier to manage, etc etc. 802.11 was not ready for prime time in my opinion.
AMD is awesome. But you'll never get your money's worth unless you build yourself on that one. One word of advice, don't over do you motherboard. I've seen $70 motherboards do equal to $300 motherboards. I can't justify the extra $$$ on a motherboard these days. There's a few articles around on that topic nowdays.
Here's my overall suggestion. Spend about $1000 on PC #1, it'll be worth every penny. Spend about $1500 on PC #2. You'll need that for an X2 machine. For #1, A Dell E310 or E510 are good options, Google for Dell coupons before you buy. Make sure to get "descreet graphics". On PC #2, get an ECS motherboard, X2 4200, 2 gig ram, 250 gig hd and ATI X1600(or X1800 if budget allows) and you'll be in heaven. Use Newegg.com for building that system.
build, buy, rebuild
by Steve7100 - 3/24/06 6:42 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbThe 1.6ghz system should be plenty for your #1 pc. If it's slow, it probably just needs cleaning out. Then you can spend the money on HDD, memory, upgraded monitor etc.
For the kids I would build one from scratch and use one of the AMD processors. You can use any leftover money you saved on PC #1 to get SATA HDD, extra mamory, and big time video card.
I'm no luddite, but don't build
by jimichan - 3/24/06 6:47 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbThe first real computer I built was an old 8088 with dual(!) 5 and 1/4" floppy drives. I've built 386's, 486's and pentiums. Hell, I even built my own house! I wired the heck out of it and couldn't wait to build an awesome computer to go with it. I visited sharkyextreme a thousand times just planning it.
When the time came, however, I bought an hp. There was no way I could build my own and buy the software for the same price. For under $1000, I got a dual core AMD, 2 gigs of ram, a 250 gig hd, and a load of software. And no hassles!
One reason not to build
by bmedicky - 3/24/06 7:45 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbIf you're interested in picking up expensive software for a new system, that could constitute one reason not to build your own: instead, you'd buy a machine from a major manufacturer with OEM versions of the software bundled in as part of the deal. I'm thinking here of companies whose software is traditionally expensive, such as Microsoft. The OEM versions of Windows XP or of Microsoft Office are much more cost-effective than the full versions. Your mileage might vary in trying to buy OEM software with a purchase of components for a build-your-own PC: some vendors might sell it, while others might refuse unless you buy a pre-assembled PC from them with the software already installed.
Some folks also claim that, because of the huge volume of business they do, the major PC manufacturers such as Dell get volume discounts on components like CPUs that the average home builder could never realize when he buys a single CPU for a single PC. You'd have to be familiar with component prices in your community to figure out if this is true or not.
Build or Not to Build
by Oldveteran - 3/24/06 7:48 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbThe big question is how up to date do you want the computers to be. You can get motherboards at a lower price if you want last years technology. I have found that if you check out your local Wal*Mart store, you will find very good PCs at a wonderful price and pretty up to date technology. I don't use anything but AMD processors as they are the best value, high benchmarks and out perform Intel all the way. I find bargans there with prices ranging from $450 to 700 for computers with AMD processors. They usually have the Athlon 64 processor in the computers they carry. Don't be bothered by the brand name, it is what is inside that really counts. I have several small businesses using the E Machine with Athlon 64 and it does wonderful. I have found building a machine is very expensive and usaually not cost effective. Do some research, there are a lot of places on line that sell computer components at good prices, but you have to know what motherboards use what processors, you gotta search to figure that out. Hope this helps in some way.
I recently had to make the same decision
by WheelerCub
- 3/24/06 11:46 AM
In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebb
In the past I have always built my machines. But have found that building your own can be a huge nightmare in and of itself with ordering the right parts from the right vendors and then only to find little problems later on.
So the last time I needed to upgrade, I decided to keep an open mind and either build my own or buy a premade machine. Looking at prices and comparing manufacturers, I found that the most affordable way to get the best of both worlds was to buy a premade PC and make a couple small modifications.
I wound up going with eMachines and then adding a little more RAM and a 3D video card (because I am an avid gamer). During my research I found out that these computers are made by Gateway and are mass produced. I did some further research and found out that they base their builds by surveying users and watching industry trends. Needless to say I got more bang for my buck than I had hoped for.
Their desktop models currently start at $349 (T3304) for a 64-bit AMD processor 256MB RAM (which you would want to upgrade), 100GB Hard Drive, 48x CD-RW/DVD combo drive, and everything else standard that you would expect. On the other side of the spectrum you can look at their high end machine (T6420) which is only $549 and it also comes with a slightly faster 64-bit processor, but 1GB RAM, 200GB Hard Drive, 16x DVD±RW multiformat double layer drive, and all the other basics and software you would imagine.
Although the machine I bought is an older model now, it ran flawlessly right out of the box and can handle any task I throw at it and mine isn't even a 64-bit processor model. I added a cost effective NVida 6600 3d Video card for about $125 and was able to play all the high end video games on the market including Doom 3, Halflife 2, and World of Warcraft.
Anyway, that's an option I recommend you explore. Here is some more information about them on CNET: http://reviews.search.com/search?q=emachines&tag=srch
Build your on
by johnstantonlaw - 3/24/06 12:01 PM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbIf you are going to build your owen check out e-bay for mother boards.I have baught a few form there and have not had a problems.I have what some people would call a super computer .I am runing a 3.0 cpu,2 gig mem,soyo dragon mother board,audigy 2 zs sound card,geforce 256 meg vidio card,and i only have about 700.00 dollars in it.So if you buy form e-bay make sure to read their fedback.98 and above is good.
buy, and rethink which computer should be the powerhouse
by YahooMarcus - 3/24/06 1:30 PM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbFirst, let me tell you that the kids gaming system takes the cake as far as being power hungry. A "workhorse" home computer that does all word processing, home bookkeeping, etc., plus casual internet browsing needs no more than a 1.5GHz CPU and a half decent graphics and probably a minimalistic sound card.
Computer for kids to play online games need 2+ GHz cpu, top of the line (or close to it) graphics card and a decent sound card, with 1GB (minimum) memory.
For your basic home PC (or what you called the workhorse computer), a cheap off-the-shelf computer is usually goodenough.
For a gaming PC, you might save some by building. I've done a few, and built exactly what I needed, but with lots of headaches which I don't really care to repeat. If you have the knack and the time to deal with bad components, support/refund/replace broken or incompatible parts, etc., I would say go for it. But, IMO, you won't really get much $$savings. You'll just get the satisfaction of building your own. An off-the-shelf model is more or less guaranteed to be in working order when you recieve it.
Build your own !!
by derek vincent - 3/24/06 8:26 PM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbI would tend to go the route of building my own, due to the fact most manufactured units are built to a price not a specification.
The powerhouse computer I would use a P4 3.0 ghz with high speed DDR2 ram and lots of it, Dual layer light scribe dvd r/w and Sata Hard drives for back up / redundancy !
And for the kids gaming platform, use the AMD dual core processor plenty of ram a good video card etc
And why not use one of the aging computers for a linux based firewall / router to keep the new computers secure, there are plenty of lightweight Linux o/s out there free now and installation setup is easy maintainence is straightforward. Use a free AV program, AVG do a pretty good scanner, adaware PE for spyware coupled with spybot s/d works well and protects your systems. and if you are using XP get SP2 from microsoft on CD it is free and worth the wait of a week, also have all ports stealthed on your router to make it harder for people attack your computers online, Good Luck !!!
I've been there....
by Larry.T - 3/25/06 2:24 AM In reply to: To build or not to build? That is the ??? by ddwebbFirst the #1 computer- The functions it will serve say buy one, but because its children's you'll want excellent support from the maker.
#2 computer- The functions say build it; you will save about $1000. And stay away from ATI; I have had nothing but problems with my all-in-wonder 9600 XT and the support is minimal. I've never used NVidia so i don't know if you'll be better off with them. I also have monitored my pc's performance and here are the facts: 1- surfing the net requires only about 300 megahertz cpu and 128mb memory 2- recording digital tv only requires about 2.00 gigahertz cpu and 380mb memory(that includes the graphic cards memory-add the two together) Yes, so many 'experts' say "You need the fastest cpu U can get to record and edit video and play videogames." NOT TRUE- again U don't need more than 2G cpu power 3- the single most important thing in a computer is the software; specifically the operating system; have U heard of MythTV?(mythtv.org)
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