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Buzz Out Loud Lounge: This is what I thought of when I heard David talk....
This is what I thought of when I heard David talk....
by drivechevysordie - 3/21/06 10:53 AM"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
Pogue was Rude and Evasive
by mwrisner - 3/21/06 11:28 AM In reply to: This is what I thought of when I heard David talk.... by drivechevysordieAfter Molly and Tom were gracious enough to let David Pogue take up podcast time to defend himself and air his side of the story, he just came off as rude.
You could tell Pogue had an agenda to put Molly and Tom "in thier places." Even after professional apologies from the BOL hosts, Pogue continued to press his individual points against comments made last Friday. His behavior came off as petty.
Meanwhile, Molly and Tom had a lingering valid point on the perception of objectivity: Pogue DID receive a substantial service for free. That alone erases the perception of objectivity, and this issue still applies to Pogue. Tom and Molly purposely (and politely) deflected the accusation from Pogue and onto themselves, collectively. However, with the flair of a seasoned politician, Pogue would not address it as it applied to his situation.
My respect for David Pogue has diminished substantially ... for a second time.
--Mike Risner.
Colorado Springs, CO
Just the facts
by MacHugger - 3/21/06 11:58 AM In reply to: Pogue was Rude and Evasive by mwrisnerFunny how we seem to care more about delivery than the clear revelation of the facts at hand, these days. To use your example of politicians, it's the same way in political debates anymore. Who looked good? Who seemed more gracious? Who was more likable.
I too found myself wanting him to be friendlier in his own self-defense but I couldn't deny the absolute effectiveness of playing Molly and Tom's own words back to them. Have you ever tried arguing a point with Molly? I have and I usually lose 
It's quite hard to deny something when it's just been played back for you seconds before.
Tell Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes that his behavior is rude. He won't give a crap, so long as he ultimately reveals the truth as a journalist. My respect for Pogue as a journalist as definitely increased after the interview. I would have liked him better with more humility but I certainly don't respect him less.
-Kevin S.
Kudos Kevin!
by LifeStar - 3/21/06 12:28 PM In reply to: Just the facts by MacHuggerMy gosh, how long are people gonna gripe about how "rude" or "harsh' David was. His intergrity as a journalist was on the line, give the guy a break! His credibility as a journalist was slightly marred, and he needed to clear that up. Get over it people, and kudos Kevin for just pointing out the fact how we make a bigger deal on delievery than facts these days!
agree
by Larry.T - 3/22/06 3:03 PM In reply to: Just the facts by MacHuggerKevin is right. Facts are what is important. It disturbs me when people are confronted with their own truths and they keep talking as though they absolutely refuse to take responsibility for their lies or general ignorance or insanity. That attitude of not owning their words and actions is the very reason America is NOT a great place to live anymore. 99% of Americans seem to be in denial about how $&^)(?! living in America has become. All the people who are supposed to be helping are instead committing crimes, and then refusing to take responsibility for it.
Here is another one...
by drivechevysordie - 3/21/06 12:00 PM In reply to: Pogue was Rude and Evasive by mwrisner"You can be a journalist or a celebrity but not both."
If you've nerver heard that one before, then that's because I just made it up.
Pogue was calm and reasonable
by undiwahn - 3/21/06 12:04 PM In reply to: Pogue was Rude and Evasive by mwrisnerI don't know--if you listen to the original 'cast, Tom and Molly were wailing on Pogue based on bogus facts. I think they deserved having the record straightened.
Pogue was direct, but rude? No. He was perfectly nice to them, although they might not have liked to hear their mistakes brought to light on the air.
Kudos to both of them for owning up to their mistakes. Molly said it best: Looks like BOTH sides have learned a lesson about being more careful.
He came across as a boob!
by Shagged - 3/21/06 3:34 PM In reply to: This is what I thought of when I heard David talk.... by drivechevysordieI've enjoyed his articles and have heard him interviewed in the past and thought he was very intelligent and interesting but come on....repeatedly making Molly read the article to highlight the errors was moronic. The bottom line is he was wrong for taking the free data recovery. Not by the Times standards but by journalistic ethical standards. I know Tom and Molly will never say it so I will.....BUZZ OFF David Pogue!
The Definition of
by MacHugger - 3/21/06 3:58 PM In reply to: He came across as a boob! by ShaggedLOL, as if the New York Times isn't the news organization that pretty much DEFINES journalistic ethical standards. Anytime the NYT finds that its reputation is at stake, it takes measures to correct it, even if it is just for public perception.
Do people actually listen to what is said these days or do we now just live in a society where somebody is tried and convicted in the media and then their mind is set for good? I know how I felt before the interview, made a fair judgement of the evidence at hand after having heard it and changed my mind, regardless of how unpleasant he might have seemed (at first) in defending his reputation. A reporter survives by his reputation and an attack on his rep was an attack on his person.
Pogue certainly doesn't deserve a buzz off.
-Kevin S.
Guilty, Guitly, Guilty!
by skshrews - 3/21/06 5:13 PM In reply to: He came across as a boob! by ShaggedPogue's original transgression was bad enough, but his defense of himself on CNET is worse.
Like the proverbial kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar, Pogue utilizes the typical adolescent system of defense:
He blames his accusers, the SF Weekly, of being ''anonymous...muckraking...bloggers'' (so much for free speech).
He blames his coworkers, mentioning several times that his editors ''approved'' his actions (''thanks for dragging us down with you Dave'').
His treatment of Molly alone, ordering her to read aloud quotes from the article, crossed the borders of professionalism.
The bottom line-he took $2000 worth of services under the guise of ''journalism,'' and pocketed them. His ''disclosure'' doesn't change this fact, it just pointing out his ethical lapse. If he needs his editors to be his moral compass, he needs to grow up.
To those who defend him, you're part of the problem. The same litany of excuses for this type of unethical, but not illegal, behavior is always used by those who abuse their position. CBS was right to apologize for Pogue's actions, and hopefully won't have him back.
Steve K.
Rock tossing
by MacHugger - 3/21/06 5:34 PM In reply to: Guilty, Guitly, Guilty! by skshrews>>To those who defend him, you're part of the problem.
A lot of people, myself included, don't feel a line was crossed so long as disclosure was provided. Had it not been, I would have felt differently about it. You read reviews of products and services every single day from sources that were comped an item or service, even if only temporarily. YOU define it as a line being crossed. That line looks pretty broad to me if some companies say it's okay to give a journalist cellphone service for a while to test something but it's not ok to have a journalists hard drive repaired when it goes down just because the fix is permanent. Those journalists surely aren't using the phone for personal use to order out, talk to friends and family, are they? Oh please. The distinctions become miniscule and absurd.
There was no clear ethical lapse so no, I, nor people who feel as I do are ''part of the problem.'' Just listen to yourself: "Guilty, Guilty, Guilty." That self-righteous attitude is the problem.
CBS has a hair-trigger to apologize these days and had THEY investigated the situation further, they would have realized an apology was unnecessary. Clarification perhaps, an apology, no.
-Kevin S.
Supporting point
by skshrews - 3/21/06 6:22 PM In reply to: Rock tossing by MacHuggerJust my point-Pogue's defenders are more than happy to argue there are no "absolutes," every ethical barrier is malleable and subjective, so there's no "wrong" behavior.
Luckily, most people do feel there at least some absolutes. What Pogue did was wrong, and he is guilty.
Unfortunately, there will always be, like Pogue, excuse mongers in society.
Steve K.
My shiny new label
by MacHugger - 3/21/06 8:43 PM In reply to: Supporting point by skshrewsHey everybody, I'm an EXCUSE MONGER!! Yay. Look at me.
We're the type who understand there are grey areas and maybe two sides to every story.
But Steve K believes in absolutes! Yes, he never travels faster than the posted limit. Therefore, he could _never_ accept an explanation that an action was approved all the way up the chain of command because that person is guilty, guilty, guilty in Steve K's list of ABSOLUTE no-nos.
Hypocrites... ('long as we 're labeling people) ya gotta love 'em.
-Kevin S.
Mostly annoying...
by daltonrooney - 3/21/06 5:21 PM In reply to: This is what I thought of when I heard David talk.... by drivechevysordieI do respect David Pogue for defending his reputation against bogus facts. Some of the points he made were quite relevant and accurate. At the same time, I think Tom and Molly have a point too, and I'm glad the SFGate article, no matter how inflamatory, has brought this issue to wider attention.
While I do understand Pogue's position, his behavior was pretty ridiculous. Making Molly read back his column out loud was just petty and childish. Playing back the audio recording was silly too. It made me lose all respeect for him. If you want to get your point across, just say what you need to say. Games like this are just pathetic.
Molly's teachable moment
by raingray2000 - 3/22/06 9:07 PM In reply to: Mostly annoying... by daltonrooneyI disagree. Asking Molly to read back his column was a very valuable moment for her. I doubt Molly will ever again comment on hearsay or articles she hasn't read. Tom and Molly made a big deal about journalism and journalis ethics. Rule 1 of journalism is get the facts right. Tom and Molly should have disclosed that they hadn't read Pogue's reviews or watched the CBS show.
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