Community Newsletter: Q&A: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper?
- 2/9/06 4:55 PM
It depends on the paper
by dlowrey - 2/10/06 9:15 AM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
My personal expirence is the length of time a digital print on paper lasts depends on the paper used.
I normally use either Kodak or HP Glossy Photo paper.
However, I bought some ''Staples'' (the office supply store) branded paper that was on sale.
My wife had prints on both papers on our refridgerator, which is not in direct sunlight. Prints on the Staples brand paper turned a greenish tint within six months, while the HP/Kodak prints still looked fine. All prints were made on the same HP Colorjet inkjet printer with HP brand ink cartridges.
Just my 2 cents worth.....
Dave
Longevity
by WAArnold - 2/10/06 9:30 AM In reply to: It depends on the paper by dlowreyBeing 70 some years old gives me just a little knowledge of longevity. I have taken pictures from the original box camera to the current digitals. I can tell you the current digitals are so much better it's a different world. Anyway, with the few thousand slides I had that was gaining mildew, I have now scanned them into digital form. Yes, I lost quite a few due to fading. Printing on todays papers compared to yesteryear?? Who cares. Put the pictures on your computer into digital form, Print as many as you wish, if they fade, SO WHAT, print some more. I have mine in the Adobe format and also jpeg format. Takes up a lot of disk space??? Absolutely, who cares, I'll have them unfaded and ready for a fresh print.
I backup to at least two-three copies in case of a failure.
And where did those floppies go?
by JonKa - 2/10/06 1:03 PM In reply to: Longevity by WAArnoldIf as you say you're old enough to remember box cameras, you're certainly old enough to remember 8-inch floppy discs, followed by 5-1/4 inch floppies. Or if you weren't into the digital stuff a couple of decades ago, you may recall 8-track tapes.
Finding the technology to reproduce from any of these media today is, well, as easy as finding a Betamax VCR.
The point is that digital technology moves very quickly, leaving its wake littered with media that no one except a specialist can access. That's the beauty of human readable media, like film or paper prints.If you choose a print material with good image permanence, you'll always be able to ''read'' and, for that matter, scan it.
No, I'm not anti-digital. I make a living from it. But the other side of the coin to image permanence is media acccessability. That back-up plan for your digital images better include one for migration to newer technologies.
This is the sort of thing that keeps librarians and achivists up nights.
Don't sweat the .jpeg
by stevestl - 2/11/06 2:21 PM In reply to: And where did those floppies go? by JonKafile extension or .jpg, .bmp and .tiff.
Jpeg uses compression and other techie stuff that will be around for a long, long time. This format for saving digital images has been around since before the 1st viable digi camera even hit the shelves for consumers. It just works and most likely will remain viable till the sun don't shine no more.
The .bmp and .tiff file extensions and formats were developed for more savvy users and do not neccessarily include the ''pros''. 
Your printed versus the digital file
by WAArnold - 3/17/06 10:16 AM In reply to: And where did those floppies go? by JonKaI agree with what you are saying. That is the reason for keeping my pics in multiple formats. You do realize that you are still able to view some of the oldest digital formats? There may be some that have gone by the wayside and unreadable at this point but I don't really know of it.
Yes, you do need to ensure that you migrate to the latest formats. If you only have that pic on the printed paper that you can view, it fades, you're outta luck. The digital copy doesn't fade.
what about color laser prints
by wileyrg - 2/10/06 12:32 PM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Since the price of color laser printers has come down so much in the past 18 months, what is know about the longevity of images printed using typical color laser printers?
Paper on "Light Stability Testing of Inkjet Photographs
by lahines - 2/10/06 3:23 PM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
The following paper was produced after a study of InkJet photo ink stability. The paper gives comp0arative data for several inks, several light conditions, and several air conditions.
www.wilhelm-research.com/ ist/WIR_ISTpaper_2001_10_HW_MMG.pdf
Good Articles on Print Lifetime and How to Predict It
by JonKa - 2/11/06 9:03 AM In reply to: Paper on "Light Stability Testing of Inkjet Photographs by lahinesTests need to be keyed to the real world and reflect how people use their prints. See, for example, this article (reprinted from PTN) by the late and highly respected Bob McComb, who for decades specialized in print preservation at the Library of Congress and on various standard committees:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/education/imageStability.shtml
Long time photography journalist has written knowledgably on the various approaches to trying to predict image lifetimes in his article in Digital Camera:
http://www.digicamera.com/features/goinggoinggone/
Finally, an article by Joe LaBarca, who is Eastman Kodak's Technical Director of Image Permanence and a member of various international standards committees has a very lucid article that explains all the various testing methods commonly used today:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/member/ProPass/magazine/stability.jhtml
So what if it clogs!
by Brad75 - 2/10/06 6:00 PM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I bought an Epson Stylus Photo R220 after photos from my hp printer faded out in a matter of days on premium photo paper. I did plenty of research on this before I bought this printer, including the Wilhelm Institute. I could not be happier with this printer. It costs less than 100 dollars, prints photos that rival any photo lap, and prints on CD's. It also has 7 ink cartridges that in all cost about the same or less than the one single color cartridge, but I only replace the ink that runs out. There could be plenty of yellow or cyan left in that multi-color cartridge when you replace it. My printer has not clogged once. If it does, I can run the utility to clean the heads that came with the printer. If that doesn't work, I'll just buy another one. Everybody knows that in the printer world, the printer is secondary to the ink cartridges. The printer with the cartridges is about 90 dollars, the ink cartridges are about 60 dollars, If it doesn't work, throw it away and get another one! Lastly, if anyone tells you that buying off brand ink cartridges and photo paper works the same as the one that the manufacturer suggests, they are wrong. If you do some research, you will learn that in the printing process, the surface of the paper is designed for a particular ink, dye, or pigment. When it comes down to it, if you are wanting to make prints for longevity, or even store digital video on DVD, go with the best. The minimal price difference isn't worth the risk!
Keep Using an Epson to Unclog It
by rrwwss - 2/10/06 9:13 PM In reply to: So what if it clogs! by Brad75I've had printheads on 2 different Epson printers clog on me, after approximately 2 years of use. I junked the first one (a 5200 all in one), but when the yellow printhead on the second one (a C82) clogged completely, and would not uncolg after repeatedly using the printhead cleaning utility, I decided to keep using the printer for non-critical printouts in order to use up my supply of unopened Epson ink carts. To my surprise, the yellow printhead unclogged after using it for a few weeks. A few months later the magenta printhead clogged, and would not unclog after repeated cleaning cycles, but, again, since I'd stocked up on ink (which was, in aggregate, far more valuable than the printer) I continued using the printer, and a few weeks later the magenta printhead unclogged.
I'll probably junk the Epson C82 printer when I run out of replacement ink carts, but I do plan to purchase an Epson R340 (in addition to my HP) in order to get CD/DVD printing capabilities.
I wish Epson or another company would manufacture a CD/DVD only printer, which could be easily used to print only on the surface of ink jet printable CDs and DVDs. Yes, I know Primera and others make expensive CD/DVD duplicators/printers, and Casio makes a rudimentary CD/DVD printer, but what I's like is an easy to use, high print quality, small footprint, affordable CD/DVD only printer.
Very well informed
by funkid7 - 2/11/06 12:51 AM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
Being a press room foreman; I have shot negatives and done the chemical bit, etc, etc. Thought I could come in this thread and one up everyone. I was definitely wrong there, wasn't I.
Very informative and complete answer above!
Epson: oh yes! I have two and I use the pigmented inks and Epsons finest papers.
My first Epson has both inks; CMYK(pigmented oil base) and RGB(organic water base). It takes 8 cartridges to fill it and the 4 pack CMYK, costs me $149.00 U.S. to replace. paper can run 2 dollars per 8.5x11.5 sheet.
I do an 8x10 CMYK, Epson 100years paper, vacuum sealed frame and that one image can have a $15.00 investment involved.
Before I bought my ImageEditing software and Epson products I contacted some aquantances in the photography bizz. Olan Mills Studios for one; uses the same software and inks, that I am using with my Epson. They also garantee their prints, as long as certain conditions are met, ie. never remove the air-tight frame, the finished product comes to you in.
have pictures printed by a photo lab
by jdeere_man - 2/11/06 6:58 AM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
I have my pictures printed by a professional photo lab like kodakgallery.com (top quality winner in tests by pc world magazine) or even walmart (bottom of pc world's list). Several other companies are out there that will print real pictures from your digital files. This gives me the best of both worlds.
Inkjets vs. Photo lab
by lionshooter - 2/14/06 6:00 AM In reply to: have pictures printed by a photo lab by jdeere_manI suggest that this topic should indicate that it is about longevity of inkjet prints. Many of us use photo labs for various reasons; mostly convenience and lower cost than do-it-yourself inkjet printing.
But, has anyone addressed the longevity issue of digital lab prints made from a Fuji Frontier on Fuji Crystal Archival paper?
Stan Burns
Atlanta
Inkjets vs. Photo lab
by billinn - 2/14/06 1:29 PM In reply to: Inkjets vs. Photo lab by lionshooterI have been a photographer, amature and professional, for some 65 years. Making black and white prints last 200 years or more was never very difficult. Since color negative film and printing papers were introduced by Kodak in the late 1930s prints tended to fade rapidly if exposed to ultraviolet light, (includes natural and flourescent). Most of the red hue would be gone in 6 to 8 years. Even the color prints made throughout the 80s and 90s weren't very stable unless they were kept in a dark, temperature and humidity controlled environment. The recent development of stable printing paper has changed that. As explained on Kodak.com, Endura Paper provides "State-of-the-art image stability," which means that your photographs will have an exceptionally long print life. Based on how you store your prints, whether from negatives or digital images, should last more than 100 years, 200 years if kept in the dark. Digital cameras and photo editing programs have given us abilities we wouldn't have dreamed of 10 years ago. My opinion is, hang with digital but don't print your photos with an ink jet printer.
Special considerations for Hung Digital Artwork?
by dddiam - 2/11/06 10:28 AM In reply to: 2/10/06 How long do digital pictures last on paper? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
What is everyone's recommendation for printing digital artwork that is to be framed and hung on the wall, and perhaps exposed to direct sunlight?
There are multiple issues to be considered:
(1) The recipient of the artwork expects the colors to not fade.
(2) The format needs to be larger than 8 1/2" x 11", and large format printers are too pricey for the casual artist. What print services would you recommend?
(3) Some digital art was "painted" in low resolution, and needs an enlargement algorithm that smoothes jaggies without blurring detail. One person suggested to me that analog works better than digital, i.e., take a digital photograph of a monitor display of the artwork.
I would be interested in hearing your suggestions regarding how best to address these considerations.
David
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