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General Mac hardware discussions: Graphic and Web Design...Mac or PC?
Graphic and Web Design...Mac or PC?
by wolrabnodrogl - 1/25/06 10:24 AMI'm in the market for a new laptop and want to make the best decision possible in choosing the right platform.
I'm pretty proficient with a PC and know there are various ''Multimedia'' options to go with if I choose a PC...however, like most people, I'm absolutely fried with all the headaches that accompany owning a PC (networking configurations, 3rd party software bundled into Windows applications, worms/viruses/hackers, holes in service packs & web browsers, etc.).
Over the years, most of the environments I've worked in have been PC-based, so it's been a while since I've really worked with Macs.
I know Macintosh has come a long way over the years to integrate better with Windows-based programs; and I've heard many designers swear by Macintosh's ''superior'' design elements (video card, screen resolution, etc.).
If I purchase a Mac for web/graphic design, it's going to be more expensive than buying a PC...but maybe well worth it? I've heard the costs of servicing are generally more expensive (but maybe it will be a rare occasion unlike a PC), and I'll have to purchase all new software that I already own (for a PC)...gulp.
I'm also concerned that I will not be able to open some of my older documents on the Mac that I created using Windows-based programs (Freehand, Corel, PageMaker, etc.). Does anyone know if this is true?
I know there are a gazillion pros and cons to be discussed here, but I guess I'm trying to gauge 1.whether buying a Mac will be well worth the extra expense; 2.whether all my peripherals/older documents will work with it (I will go postal if I have to deal with anymore configuration issues); and 3.whether there will be just as many configuration/security issues with Mac as with PC (which I don't believe to be true, but I thought I'd still make sure).
Thank you!!!
Addressing some of the questions
by mrmacfixit
- 1/25/06 3:16 PM
In reply to: Graphic and Web Design...Mac or PC? by wolrabnodrogl
All of the programs that you mentioned, except Corel(which apparently is no great loss for the Mac world), has a Mac equivalent. To be absolutely accurate, they actually have a Windows equivalent as they were Mac first.
You will be able to open already created files with the Mac versions.
You may even be able to convince the software manufacturers to give you the Mac version at the upgrade price as you are swapping to a new platform for their product. It's worth a try.
You might want to wait for the laptop until more of your favorite programs become available for the Intel processor machines. Most of the majors have plans to release at least a Universal Binary version of their stuff.
Purchase cost, if you take a real look at the specs, will be around the same for a good PC or Mac.
Check out the specs at the Apple Store. Apple.com
Servicing costs around the same for both platforms. Most of the places around here charge $60 an hour for PC's. At the last Apple Reseller in this area, we charge the same. You will, of course, get the AppleCare and take the warranty out to three years. It is well worth it on a laptop. One screen cracked and you have all your money back!
For web design you will not find Front Page for the Mac, Adobe makes a suite of stuff for web design. Don't forget to use W3 compliant code for your sites so that we can all view them correctly. None of this MS proprietary stuff. Pretty please 
Let us know which way you go.
P
CorelDraw
by codeman38 - 1/26/06 6:58 AM In reply to: Addressing some of the questions by mrmacfixit
Actually, although development has officially stopped on it, and although it has quite a few bugs (just like the Windows version) there *is* a Macintosh version of CorelDraw 11; it's available in Allume's Creative Essentials package, which is available for under $150. And it opens the files from my Windows machine with no difficulty.
Mac vs. PC
by skirklan - 1/25/06 8:55 PM In reply to: Graphic and Web Design...Mac or PC? by wolrabnodroglI've used Macs since the late 80's and during that entire time, I have never had my computer in for repair. I mean, it's not the same computer, but no matter what Mac I buy, it's reliable and always up and running. I'm a designer and I always have a hard time shifting from the right side of my brain to the logic side of my brain--so the Mac interface is delightful. Also, it takes fewer keystrokes to accomplish things on a Mac. It was only recently that I discovered the real difference between the two types of computers, and quite by accident. The extra expense is well worth it--especially if you need dependability and want to work on your computer instead of spending time getting your computer to work.
After I learned about the inside difference regarding typography, I wrote this article for other designers. You may enjoy it since it's from a designer's point of view. Good luck.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/content.cfm?content_type=article&content_type_id=10403&page=1
SDKirkland
author of Start and Run a Creative Services Business
read excerpts from the book (click on the book icon) at http://www.sdkirkland.com
Get 2 free POD cartoons just for giggles.
Blogging with my friends: http://blogs.graphicdesignforums.com
Baloney
by Violetw - 1/27/06 5:44 AM In reply to: Mac vs. PC by skirklanHi I've been working with computers since I graduated from high school at 13 and went to work as a programmer for IBM -- 44 years ago. I've been a graphic design and typeface designer almost as long. Also, I worked on the ViewTech project for XParc and have been an SGML writer since before there were templates for it.
The Mac is not better then the PC, it's just a different tool, that's all. I've owned Macs since the beginning, but I have also owned PCs since they were CP/M based. If you don't bother to learn your tool, you might thing the Mac is 'better' (there are a LOT of lazy people in this world, after all). However, given that all the great graphic design software tools reversed their position and started coming out FIRST on the PC platform then, as an afterthought, on the Mac platform (back in the early 90s), there's really no argument to justify saying 'mac is better' for graphics or anything. It's 'better' if you don't understand the underpinnings, the OS, the Kernel, etc. (Same argument is true for Windows vs linux, hello people! UNIX has been around longer and the mainframe also is still a leading force in the 'big boy' enterprise world, yes it still is true.)
As for typography, I don't let any graphics program do the kerning or linebreaking for anything I do that is typography-related. The best wysiwyg is STILL the ViewTech. It was way before its time and still is.
The company I work for now actually spec'd Arial or Verdana for body text! That is lamebrain and if I have to explain why, and you are calling yourself a graphic designer, than all I can say 'LEARN YOUR CRAFT'. Mac vs PC: just tools, folks, not the craft. But I pick PC over Mac any day because I can tweak the PC how I want, and with Mac, well, you are treated like a welfare recipient (aka 'lamebrain'). Who wants that? Not me! I also won't hire anyone who 'brags' about be a 'mac person'. Repeat after me: just a tool, NOT the craft. nuff said.
I see your point...
by grimgraphix - 1/27/06 11:08 AM In reply to: Baloney by Violetwbut just one thing. Just because I'm a fairly decent carpenter and enjoy doing my own construction does not mean I want to make my own hammer and saw (although I can since I also have a portable forge and anvil as well).
I concede everything you say about the PC being more configurable than the Mac... I've even raised that point in several other threads. I do have to say that PCs are more work though for exactly the same reasons you state. I'm no Ludite but computers are a tool. Why should I have to spend an hour every week repairing what is now a basic everyday appliance?
You have an opinion and preference and I respect that. I was with you up until you said "I also won't hire anyone who 'brags' about be a 'mac person'." Sorry but that just makes you sound like you've got an ax to grind.
My opinion? I like both but I enjoy using Apple more. Microsoft does too... else wise why would MS come out with last years Mac OS every couple of years?
grim
It's NOT the box ...
by jrhmobile - 1/27/06 6:12 AM In reply to: Graphic and Web Design...Mac or PC? by wolrabnodroglI'm a professional graphic designer and trainer/consultant in graphic applications. In the course of my work I deal with clients ranging from single-designer shops to daily newspaper operations. By necessity, I have both PCs and Macs in my studio, running state-of-the-art software.
I'm going to tick off a lot of people here by saying it doesn't really matter whether you use a Mac or PC to do print and/or web graphics work.
1) For print work, the common currency in trafficking graphics files is the Acrobat PDF format. Its seamless cross-platform capabilities make the issue of running a Mac or PC system a moot point.
2) For the better part of a decade, market leader Adobe Systems has been developing its software for PCs and ''porting'' those apps to the Mac. So while many programs may have been first been developed for the Mac, today they are now ''first developed'' for the PC -- not that it matters, because the programs run equally well on either platform.
3) With the exception of using QuarkXPress, which frankly does run much better on the Mac platform and begs its old monicker ''QuirkXPress'' on the PC, just about every graphics application either has counterparts on both platforms or file formats that are compatible with other apps on both platforms.
In general terms, Mac or PC is a non-issue. Picking the right software to do the job is important. The box you run that software on doesn't really matter. So let's look at this in terms of your personal sistuation:
1) Is the Mac worth the extra expense? In your case, probably not. Not only will you have to spend more for a PC box, but you will also have to buy current software for the new platform, and fonts, and utilities, etc. Spending more for a Mac laptop is just the ante, it'll cost you a lot more than the computer to get into the game on another platform.
2) Will all your older documents/peripherals make the trip if you go to Mac? Let's break this question in half.
Frankly your documents will likely be a problem if you upgrade on either platform. PageMaker docs can be opened and saved in InDesign (or with third-party utilities, in QuarkXPress) if they are later versions of PageMaker files -- PM6 or above. If they're earlier, you've got problems. FreeHand EPS files open cleanly in Illustrator, less so for older native FreeHand files. CorelDRAW files have never played well in other applications, though rendering fonts to outlines and saving EPS files makes it more likely you can translate them into Illustrator terms. In all these cases, extra attention is necessary to make these files work at all in new applications, and in some cases, they might now work well at all. And from your comments, I'm assuming (maybe wrongly, maybe not) that you need to upgrade your graphics applications with either platform.
In the case of peripherals, you're likely in trouble. And the older those peripherals are, the worse that trouble is going to be. It's far more likely that you will be able to attach those add-on boxes to a new PC on WinXP than it is that they will work on a new Mac with OSX 10.4.x. And certainly, if you have worked out configuration issues on your current Windows box(es), it will be a lot less aggravation for you to stay on the PC platform. Which leads to ...
3) Configuration/security issues? Again, let's break this in half.
Count on having more configuration issues going to the Mac. Mac OSX a great interface, but it's different and it does require attention and effort to configure for your use. And the more legacy files/peripherals you plan to keep, the more aggravation you'll have configuring your new Mac laptop to deal with them.
As far as security goes, OSX is intrinsically more secure than Windows. And since most malware (and malcontent intruders) target the vast majority of Windows operators, Mac OSX is safer by default. But vulnerabilities do exist on both platforms, and unfortunately third-party solutions are needed to protect yourself on the PC platform. But those solutions exist and work well on Windows systems. For the most part they don't on the Mac OSX platform, and some of the few that do exist can cause problems themselves. In my experienced opinion, the assertion that Macs are ''more secure'' is more wishful thinking than actual fact.
Mac evangelists have their biases. I don't. I like what Mac OSX and Windows XP have to offer. From what you've shared with us, I would stronly recommend that you stay with the Windows XP platform.
thanks for this info!
by lorrwill - 1/27/06 8:51 AM In reply to: It's NOT the box ... by jrhmobileOne of my bosses and I are both learning graphics - she is learning on Mac and I am learning on PC and we both raised the question "which is better?"
Since my company is PC based, it is good to know that we really aren't short-changing ourselved by remaining so while we expand our graphic's department.
Thanks Sooooooooooooo much...
by vikiann1 - 1/27/06 12:34 PM In reply to: It's NOT the box ... by jrhmobileI am just entering school for visual communications and I will be attending online. I have a desktop pc at home but I'd like to get a new laptop so that I can travel and not miss class. I've been contemplating getting a Mac but they are costly but the laptop pc that I believe I should purchase will be costly as well. Can you give me advice on what I should look for in a laptop for my visual communications classes?
Victoria
Best advice is...
by grimgraphix - 1/27/06 3:51 PM In reply to: Thanks Sooooooooooooo much... by vikiann1Contact the department at school that teaches the classes and ask for their recommendations. This is especially important if they have an online teaching resource that class lessons are posted to. The college I am taking classes at uses a program called WebCT Vista that works better with a MS interface such as internet explorer rather than Apples' Safari browser. I simply use the explorer or firefox with my iBook but your school may be different.
Also a consideration is what software you will need for school, what software you have already, and what you may need to buy. Don't forget to add $50 to $100 just for security software when buying a PC. It always amazes me when people say a mac is so much more expensive when the reality is the PC needs so many extras after you buy it. I've never regretted going with apple and the iLife suite that comes free with a Mac is pretty darn expensive to reproduce when buying PC duplicates with the same performance.
grim
Dubious claim
by mrmacfixit - 1/27/06 12:52 PM
In reply to: It's NOT the box ... by jrhmobile
You mention some very good points. However, without going the evangelist route, your statement "In my experienced opinion, the assertion that Macs are ''more secure'' is more wishful thinking than actual fact." is a little misleading. Your statement would indicate that you have evidence, perhaps first hand, of successful virus attacks on your OS X machine. Please share.
6 years and Zero virus's for OS X would certainly indicate a much higher level of security for that system. Sounds a lot more secure than Windows. Security via Obscurity is not an argument worthy of pursuit and has been disproved many times. With a small percentage user base, I would at least expect a small percentage of successful virus attacks. Imagine the glory that could be gained by being the writer of the first successful, self-propagating virus for OS X. You think they are not trying?
JMO
P
I wish ...
by jrhmobile - 1/27/06 2:41 PM In reply to: Dubious claim by mrmacfixit
No. Fortunately, I haven't had ANY personal experience with a Mac OSX virus. But that doesn't mean that there haven't been ANY virus vulnerabilities in OSX:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/0,2000061744,39164062,00.htm
Or, for that matter that viruses are the only vulnerability that can befall Mac OSX systems:
http://news.com.com/Mac+users+face+rare+virus/2100-7349_3-5424883.html
http://macmentor.org/switch/article.php?story=20050223041856938
And just because there hasn't been a plethora of Mac OSX viruses, it doesn't mean that there cannot be:
http://wilshipley.com/blog/2005/09/mac-os-x-viruses-put-up-or-shut-up.html
Please don't take this as picking at you. But I do maintain that the idea of Mac OSX being ''secure'' is more assertion than actual fact, and unfortunately, there is a fair amount of documentation around supporting that point of view.
I agree that trusting in Security through Obscurity is flirting with disaster. And I truly believe that maintaining OSX is ''more secure'' because widespread computer carnage hasn't already occurred is little more than whistling past the graveyard.
interesting articles
by mrmacfixit - 1/27/06 4:22 PM
In reply to: I wish ... by jrhmobile
all of which have an axe to grind.
Sophos, Symantec and Macaffee all trying to sell something to protect the Mac user from something that does not, currently, exist in the wild. They roll out these warnings every month or so and we still never see one of these dangerous things.
Only this week there was an article, again on ZDNET Australia, that warned that now that OS X could run on Intel Processors, the way was open for doom and gloom and a whole host of virus infections. I wonder why he only picked OS X as being vulnerable. Why not Unix, Linux and all those other OS's that run under Intel Processors. So far it has all been FUD with nobody being able to produce documented evidence of an OS X infection.
None of these companies have been able to demonstrate a virus under OS X. A script that requires the Admin user to put in their password is hardly a virus. Malware probably, but not a virus.
I did not go so far as to say there would never be a virus for OS X, just that there are NONE now and have not been since OS X was released.
You have not shown any documentation showing that OS X is less secure than Windows, only that some AV companies would like to sell me stuff to prevent their "rare virus's".
So the score card must speak for itself, zero for OS X - thousands for Windows and it cannot be by accident.
Have a good weekend
P
FUD, indeed
by Moagw - 1/31/06 8:35 AM In reply to: interesting articles by mrmacfixit
It is so common for those who apparently get infected daily/weekly/monthly with virus'/malware on Windows to chant how horrendous it must be.
They do exist, yes.
However, as you gave in, they also exist (you used a cop-out saying that anti-vir SW companies want to sell you something, just because they do doesn't mean that they are not being straightforward) for Macs.
My father, a mac user for some time now, has not gotten a virus. However, none of the 7 computers I administer have ever been infected with anything either. Don't gasp, they are all XP. So should I bury my head in the sand, and assume that just because I have never gotten a virus, that they don't exist? Be prepared to be attacked, your POV is yours, and no one would take it from you. BUT it is a recipe for disaster to propagate a theory like "it hasn't happened yet" as a "good idea".
I have read the articles on Macs rule, admittedly they are more "pretty".
As for the lead post, Go PC, and never regret getting a comparable computer without the big bucks you will lose getting a mac to equal a low level PC. Windows is a terrible thing, to me at least, but it is all we have at the moment that can do EVERYTHING you need it to do.
It's only a tool that some make way too much fuss over.
by GeezerJim25 - 1/27/06 11:03 PM In reply to: Graphic and Web Design...Mac or PC? by wolrabnodroglMacs are the industry tradition for print work. However, with PDFs becoming the delivery vehicle of choice to printers/ service bureaus, Macs aren't as key as they once were.
It is said that a hard drive is a hard drive is a hard drive, but the same can't be said of peripherals. The Apple mini-mac can use your existing Windows monitor and peripherals. However, the mini-mack isn't powerful enouigh to run Adobe CS2 properly.
Macs handle fonts and render screen colors differently than Windows does. QuirkXpress likes Macs better; some employers demand proficiency with Macs, so it can pay to become proficient with it as well as Windows.
Windows machines generally can be upgraded in a more cost-effective manner than Macs if bought/built with care and planning. Security is not a problem as long as you keep up with things and run proper protections. No OS is safe from outside troublemakers anymore. You know the drill.
The choice really dependends on what your boss-client-instructor wants. If you are more comfortable with Windows and you do not have--nor anticipate--someone demanding that you use Macs, stick with what you know best and spend your valuable time being creative instead of trudging through learning a new Operating System.
I'm in college. I just bought a kick-butt fast new desktop running Windows with a dual-core CPU, 1GB of RAM, 2 DVD drives and 250 GB of storage for under $1000. I do my Mac homework at the school labs because a loaded Mac G5 is way, way too expensive--for anyone to suggest that a comparable Windows box costs as much as a Mac G5 loaded for graphics work is ludicrous.
Good luck with whatever route you choose. They're just tools. Being creative and of service with your art is more important than being a tech geek.
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