Home audio & video: Home theater Surge
Don't be foolish!!
by jandtdeater - 1/7/06 11:56 AM In reply to: Don't Buy by PerryZolAnyone that says don't buy protection is probably the same person you don't want influencing your kids. I work on electronics in a hospital from computers to operating room things we stress highly on protecting items. The same goes at home.
OK, you have a $2000 dollar home entertainment system. Your deductable is is $1000, so you can afford your system. Power company has a surge, especially in California, pop goes your system. You file a claim. Oh, your system is 2 years old it has depriciated from the 2 grand you paid to $1200. Ok we will pay you $200. That's it???? Well you have $1000 deductable. This means you agreed to pay for the first $1000 of a household claim. Now, how does that $150 power surge protection look. They are usually insured for at least $50000 on what they are protecting, no deductable. So if it fails and your system still gets fried you put in a claim and they pay for it. What is supposed to happen is, it blows, your sytem is safe, you buy a new protector, you thank wisdom of people with knowledge.
Don't be follish buy protection. If you can afford a 2-3-4-5 thousand dollar sytem buy some protection. If you have a $500 TV buy a surge prtector for $20 dollars it will save your TV.
Yes I have a Biomedical Electronics Engineering Degree so I do have a little knowledge of this stuff.
protect what
by hlee - 12/17/05 1:39 PM In reply to: Home theater Surge by ost49i am a retired electrical engineer .. i designed lightning strike and surge simulators .. here is some info i have observed:
1. many "surge protectors" are so poorly made that they are really useless .. they use fine gauge wire and connection techniques that cannot withstand the rated surge specs .. not only that but the long (inches) of connecting wire has enough inductance / resistance to eliminate any lightning protection ..
2. poorly designed protectors can damage a UPS when used on its output and are generally not needed or useful .. almost all modern equipment (including your computer, TV, UPS) have built in surge protection and line filtering ..
3. a problem happens when you use a surge protector on you Computer but not your modem input .. that combination actually increases your liability ...if you are going to use a protector, then all inputs from the outside world should go through the same protector ..
4. a filtered surge protector might make sense but only really good ones are useful .. many that i have seen are called filtered but have only a small capacitor across the line and usually that is placed wrong (for best filtering) or it has excessively long leads that make it useless .. often the best filtered outlet strips are heavy and expensive (they use inductors, capacitors and surge devices in such a way that degrading paracitic effects are reduced.. expensive doesnt mean good .. i took apart some "high end" devices and found violations of every rule of good engineering ... some however were very good .. even low cost ones afford some protection if designed correctly.
5. the amount of energy capability a surge protector needs at most is enough to trip its own circuit breaker.. usually a surge is either a very fast lightning strike (protector needs to act fast) or more often a one half cycle overvolt condition. (high energy ) this is cause sometimes when an arc occurs (usually lightning) in the primary windings of the big step down transformer that supplies power to your neighborhood.. the effective turns ration of the transformer temporarily changes during the arc, increasing the output voltage delivered to your home ... the arc is extinguished at the next zero crossing of the AC power voltage .. thats why it lasts for only a half cycle ...
of course both lightning and power surge can damage your equipment .. thats why protection is already built in to almost everything .. only very good external surge protectors/filters add to that protection..
Almost the answer
by NM_Bill - 12/17/05 5:12 PM In reply to: protect what by hleeGlad an engineer chimed in; however, hlee, we airheads are looking for a prescription. Inherent, built in protection sounds good. My DLP costs $260 a shot to diagnose. Then the authorized shop would have to manage to actually fix. Lots of us would like a reasonable priced external sacrificial device. Precisely external and sacrificial. I was lucky enough to have a $20-25 surge protector give its life to save my computer. Us non-techies are wanting that kind of performance. No putting down, kind of a cry in the wilderness. If you were my brother I'd plead for any inside info as to what is good or not. We're hoping for that lower cost external thing to die for the expensive stuff knowing we can't expect miracles. The non-engineers can't identify engineering principles whether they be good or bad. Perhaps you have network enough to sift through products with highest standards of engineering worthiness. All I know is that I'm near the bottom of "middle class" economic status, but think so highly of computer and a/v systems to have spend several thousands; not easily repeatable.
Well stated!!!
by jcrobso - 12/21/05 10:53 AM In reply to: protect what by hleeThe reason I recomned the Battery UPS is to maintan power after a complete black out to allow the projection lamp to be cooled.
If the lighting strikes the powrer transofrmer by YOUR house it will most likely fry everything anyway. John
Cable guy said a surge protector is not necessary on cable
by jimd3 - 12/28/05 1:40 PM In reply to: protect what by hleeI just had Comcast come out and attempt to install a cable card on my HDTV (the card did not work, last one in the warehouse, this seems to be a common problem. I really don't think they are all that motivated to install cable cards since they don't make any money renting it like they do with a cable box). Anyway, he told me that the cable is grounded and you do not need a surge protector on the cable. In fact, he told me they did not recommend surge protectors on the cable. I bought a Belkin UPS/Power regulator/surge protector that has a surge protection connection for the cable. However, when I connected it, the picture was terrible. So I bypassed the surge protector and directly connected the cable to the back of the set. Am I courting disaster or was Comcast telling the truth?
(NT) Guess what Comcasts' liability is
by NM_Bill - 12/28/05 5:49 PM In reply to: Cable guy said a surge protector is not necessary on cable by jimd3Like other cable companies I bet they have a disclaimer - NO LIABILITY!
Yep, running the coax through your Belkin or any other not specifically labeled for a/v only degrades the picture. You have made an investment of some significance in your HDTV. The forum posts don't exactly give one proven answer. My above comments, as well as others, relate to thoughts of taking some reasonable steps to provide a superior picture via the better connections as well as views about buying a bit of insurance.
I feel good about my buying a Monster HTS 3500 from Digitally Unique for $168 + ship - $50 rebate from Monster through 2/28/06.
Yeah, I started running the coax through my "good" computer type surge protector. The cable guy yanked that off to show me what crap it was adding. Then it ran better direct. When upgrading, the pic difference was way beyond subtle. Sound got cleaned up also, to lesser degree.
Nice that the engineer posted, but he implied it's either engineered well with safeguard built in - OR NOT - can laymen tell the difference.
To sum up, you just spent a couple to a few grand. Aren't some add-ons justified, like better than crap cables (not particularly Monster) and something like the Monster I got with some relatively huge capacitors, etc. in it?
Why do you need anything but a UPS?
by jimd3 - 12/21/05 7:40 AM In reply to: Home theater Surge by ost49Based on what everyone is saying you should go with a UPS only, right? Won't the UPS "clean" the power (isn't the output of the UPS the battery power? I cant imaging getting much cleaner than battery power)? Since the UPS also has surge suppression, why do you need a surge suppressor at all? It seems like the only reason to get a fancy surge suppressor is to protect your other (non electrical) lines. If I only have a cable coming into my TV and everything else is connected to my UPS, all I need is $4 coaxial surge suppressor from Radio Shack on by cable line? Is this right or am I missing something?
"Most UPS" - - don't.
by leaglebob - 12/22/05 9:52 PM In reply to: Why do you need anything but a UPS? by jimd3This is a fascinating subject and i wish "final authority" was available to us on a short budget.
I read a while back that "a true" ups does provide constant power "from the battery" but these are very expensive units. What the consumer generally sees is "switching ups" where the power is pass thru a/c and the battery is only used when an interruption is detected and it is switched on.
Constant battery power does make alot of sense to me and getting a "whole house" surge protector makes sense too. Although "in my experience" I have had 3 computer psu power failures and about as many whole house power shut downs and *nothing* bad happened to my computers that were on at the time.
Like all else, it is "insurance" and subject to all related issues.////bobbo.
"Most UPS" - - don't.
by jcrobso - 12/23/05 9:35 AM In reply to: "Most UPS" - - don't. by leaglebobTrue!! Look for one that says AVR(automatic voltage regulation). John
(NT) ups uneeded,unless
by jandtdeater - 1/7/06 12:25 PM In reply to: Why do you need anything but a UPS? by jimd3UPS isn't needed unless you are putting it on a computer system that you're working on all day, or playing a game all day. Or a projection sytem that needs a cool down period. That is what UPS was made for. Uninterupted Power Supply, meaning if the power goes out you will have time to shut down your unit using the battery backup. The surge protection does help but if you're talking Home Entertainment System all you need is protection not shut down time
I replied earlier in the conversation, to someone saying well my home insurance will cover it. Please read back to Don't be Foolish.
In reguards to the Engineer. That is what they do they over analyze. Apply the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid. Do a little research on consumer reports or electronics forums. Don't rely on store clerks. Even Radio Shack. Those guys don't know much more about any of it than most people. They read a box lable and are considered experts by the endering public. Don't just go to Monster or Belkin and compare either. They are trying to sell you their product so of course it is the best.
No I can't say what is the best. You're wallet will allow you to get the best you want to afford. UPS and surge protection are 2 different thing and both have places. Identify your need for protection a act accordingly. I can say get some surge protection back by an insurance policy. This will save you some heartache.
ok, so Belkin or Monster Power?
by supermegadork - 12/28/05 1:09 PM In reply to: Home theater Surge by ost49There are 2 different companies making product, Belkin and Monster Power. Which to go with?
Ans also, it seems that it is impoerant to have 1 that has a UPS if running a DLP, which I plan on.
Is there a unit that has a UPS batter back up built in? I guess I can ask at the store about that.
I do have a UPS that I used on my computer, a big one that I paid $200 for. So if I just go with a voltage regulator, can I plug in the voltage regulator to the UPS ands then plug the UPS into the wall? Sounds like a lot of different plug ins. Maybe it doesn't matter.
belkin > monster
by masterying01 - 12/29/05 2:54 AM In reply to: ok, so Belkin or Monster Power? by supermegadorkmonster has a seperate battery powered "box" for $300, a voltage regulator for $1500, and surge protector for like $500. you need all 3 if you want the best possible.
belkin's highest end model has a voltage regulator and is a power conditioner too for around $800..but it doesnt have a battery supply. belkin sells a power conditioner with a power supply for $575 i think....
if you really think you need one, then go ahead and get it. belkin has a lot more features built into theirs then the monster ones. even though both will be sufficient.
you NEED a powersurge no matter what. but most of the time, unless you got a high quality surround sound to power...a $100 will be PLENTY.
Check this out
by jandtdeater - 1/7/06 1:11 PM In reply to: Home theater Surge by ost49Anybody wanting a surge protector. Type in APCc.com on a search engine. Find Home/Home Entertainment in the middle of the screen. Then A/V surge protection. Lastly the Premium unit.APC is a direct sales company of electronic components. They have a unit for $60 after S&H. This should handle most HE needs. Try and stay out of the big box stores. Another site is Newarkone. These should yield some good quality buys.
| Forum legend: | |
 |
Locked thread |
 |
Moderator |
 |
CNET staff |
 |
Samsung staff |
 |
Norton Authorized Support team |
 |
AVG staff |
 |
Windows Outreach team |
 |
Dell staff |
 |
Intel staff |
